I cannot Flip Turn (Page 3)

There is a reason fly is usually the last stroke people learn.

Start doing ab and back work.

I love doing flip turns, I know that overall they won't help me in the first sprint I am signed up for but I have a competitive swimming background and i can't help it. I can't do an open turn in freestyle, doing a flip turn is second nature, I can't even do an open turn backstroke.

I think its worth learning and practicing if you plan to train i the pool a lot it makes you more efficient overall in the pool. Plus I find its a good time to blurt out curses or ouch if you are going hard

I agree.  One of my pools has 3' on the short end and I can do them and I'm also 6'7".  However, I would get a little hesatant if it was much shallower than that.  No need to scape a forehead on the bottom of the pool.

x2

the summer pool I swam at when I Was a kid was barely over 3ft to the deck and then the gutter whicht the later level had to be below was 4-6" below that so it was 2.5ft deep on a good day.. That was scary as you got to be 16-18 and full height.. scrapped my face on the bottom on more than one occasion.

x 1,000,000  the only way to simulate OWS is in... open water....    Do 'em, don't do 'em, doesn't really matter.   But in my opinion only doing them will make you a better swimmer and thus, a better triathlete

I swim in the pool 4-5 times a week. I can only OWS a few months a year. and even then it's a bit of a drive. Once a week in the lake is a lot for me.  (usually less). At least trying to practice some open water techniques in the pool seems to make sense to me. Out of about a mile workout. (70 turns). I would say about 30 are flips. about 10 are open. about 5 are missed on pourpose so I can work on sighting, goggles, orientation, catching my breath, or any other unforseen open water incident that may come up. The rest are non-turns. (resting)
This all varies depending on if I'm going for distance or sprints.

IMHO, the reason to learn flip turns as a triathlete is the same reason as learning good bike handling skills such as riding in a pace line will make you a better cyclist.  Neither of these skills is used in most triathlons, but they make us better, well-rounded swimmers and cyclists and give us confidence, which makes us better triathletes.

The whole "it's not done in a race so I'm not going to do it" makes no sense to me whatsoever...

I do running drills for training (high knees, quick feet, butt kick, etc)
I lift weights
I do stretching excersices
I do back and breast stroke in the pool
I use fins and pull bouy and paddles in the pool
I go to spin class and use my trainer
I run on the treadmill
I MTN bike
I go on group rides

I don't do ANY of these things in a race, but by doing them, I become a better triathlete in the end.

Well, here's the deal... most people just starting in this sport can barely swim. The last thing they need to be working on is flip turning. They need to learn how to swim first.

Once they get good form down, then they should look at doing flip turns.

When I learned how to flip turn, we would get in a line at the end of the pool, swim to the wall and do a flip turn. Not swim the entire length of the pool. We just flip turn drills.

As adult triathletes... most would rather spend that time actually swimming... vs. doing flip turn drills.

So if someone doesn't want to spend the time and energy learning how to do flip turns, it's not going to make or break them in a race. I do flip turns and shoot, I can't even do them in pool swims.

I never said they had to be learned on the first day...  Of COURSE you need to learn to walk before you can run.

There are a lot of details to s/b/r that need to be learned/refined but of course not the first day out.

I think that most of the people that posted in this thread are not just starting out - otherwise they probably wouldn't even be thinking about flip turns at this junture.  I am responding to those who sound like capable/accomplished swimmers that choose to not expand their knowlege/ability with the reason "it's not done in a race".

In terms of 'make or break' in a race?  I agree 100%

I don't think practicing transitions will make or break either in of itself in a race.
Or weight lifting
Or running drills
Or back stroke
Or breast stroke
Or practice at sighting.
Or cadence drills on the bike
Or one legged peddling.

But all added up, all these little parts, makes someone a faster athelete.

Besides, where is the simple 'joy' of leaning something new?  Maybe it's just me, but I think the fundemental aspect of life is to learn, expand, grow.  I strive to learn one new thing every day.

I still play around with trying to self teach the butterfly stoke after my main workout is over.  Will I ever use that in competition or even recreationally?  Probably not.  But is it fun to try to learn something new?  Yes.  Will it make make or break my race times?  Nope

I think what he is refering to is some comments made arly in the post regarding intentionaly NOT doing flip turns is a vain attempt to somehow simulate OWS. had nothing to do with priority of training.

Not sure we should be taking flip turn advice from 'kido anyway..... 

Even less so me.  Still, as a new swimmer, I'll say that I feel that learning to flip turn has helped ME -- I'm not saying that it will or will not will help others.  And it took at most about 30 minutes out of my swim training time.  (After 1/2 hour getting the basics, I practiced them by just attempting them instead of open turns, so I was still doing my normal swim workout, except with a simulated drowning at each wall.  )