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Swimming Stroke vs The Golf Swing
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 2009-08-06 7:46 PM |
Veteran  274   outskirts of town |  Subject: Swimming Stroke vs The Golf SwingI am a long time hacker and am known for tweaking the swing, usually with mixed results. Golf for the most part this year has been replaced by my obsession with all things tri!! I'm not complaining. Of course this includes a heavy dose of studying the swimming technique discussions that I read in this forum...keep them coming btw!!! It happened today! I tried to find the thread, and I forget who posted it (thank you), but it was a very simple bit of advice in regards to breathing...look to the side and a little to the rear. It was something along those lines that was offered to the curious OP. So being the good little tweaker, off to the pool I went. I tried this technique, not breathing straight to the side or perpendicular to the line of travel, but slightly to the rear. I found from this position I was really able to fully extend my pull right past my hip. So much so that for the first time my lats are sore and not my shoulders!! It just felt better. I also felt like I was able to streamline better. Obviously I'm no swimming expert, so I can't really describe what I may have been actually doing to place me in this position! My time still blows, but I think I have a solid concept to work with here! So, my question is, am I swallowing the whole bottle of medicine?? Harvey Penick the legendary golf teacher used to say in his Little Red Book that sometimes when people only need a bit of medicine to fix the swing, they end up swallowing the whole bottle of medicine thinking more is better!! I don't know how many thousands of balls I've hit over the years while swallowing the whole bottle of medicine!!!! I dunno, I hope I'm on to something good. Another reason why this site is usually the first one I hit in my favs! Off to the range now to try and stop the snap hooks with my new driver  |
| 2009-08-06 9:00 PM in reply to: #2333143 |
Extreme Veteran 787 The Woodlands/Magnolia, TX. | Subject: RE: Swimming Stroke vs The Golf Swing first off, congrats on the breakthrough! i, along with you, am a self tweeker (that doesn't sound good) and i find that it's both good and bad at times. this bottle of medicine you talk about is something i stuggle with all the time, especially with my golf game. now that i've put training in front of golf, i've noticed my constant tweeking has carried over to the bike and swim. with golf, it takes every effort i have not to fidgit with my swing on every hole. i hit a slice on one hole so the next i close the face a little and strengthen my grip and i draw it into the woods. then on the next hole i'll open my stance a litte and slightly weaken my grip and i'll fade it into a lake. so 9holes into the round i've taken a whole bottle of medicine when all along i keep telling myself to put the pills down and just swing the damn golf club. i think of swimming in the same regard. every now again i have this little breakthrough and then i start thinking that if i read more or watch more i'll find another breakthrough. i guess all we can do is keep searching for the next pill but trying to remember that sometimes less is more. so i guess my answer to your question is...i don't know....i'm in the same boat as you. but i can say that while my body wants to down the whole bottle of medicine, my mind is trying it's best to convince myself otherwise. and for the snap hooks....i'll show you how to slice it and you can teach me the snap hook and we'll be golden!! good luck brother. |
| 2009-08-06 10:35 PM in reply to: #2333143 |
Elite 3498  Chicago | Subject: RE: Swimming Stroke vs The Golf Swing when I started golfing my wise brother gave me the advice of "take lessons now before you learn any bad habits in your swing mechanics and get the fundamentals down". i transferred that advice to swimming; which is also incredibly a highly technique driven activity and not "natural" and great things began to occur. golf and swimming are so similar...i was just talking to someone last weekend on the golf course about it. they are both very unnatural for humans and lessons taken early and often make a world of difference. too bad i didn't know that when i began swimming.  |
| 2009-08-06 11:26 PM in reply to: #2333143 |
Veteran 141 Chandler | Subject: RE: Swimming Stroke vs The Golf Swing Can't help your swimmin but you are probably snap hookin cause you are releasing to early. Visual= you are letting the club head pass your hands before impact. Hope this helps. I'm a golf course superintendent, 3 handicap turned tri trainer. |
| 2009-08-07 9:39 AM in reply to: #2333143 |
Master 2426 Central Indiana | Subject: RE: Swimming Stroke vs The Golf Swing Although I've pretty much given up golf in favor of fitness activities (former single-digit handicap), I also think the analogy between golf & swimming is a good one. Like the full golf swing, a good freestyle stroke is a complex motion involving coordinated upper & lower body movements, timing, etc. And more effort often means worse results (as in thinking "I'm gonna crush this drive" just before uncorking a worm-burner). And I agree Penick references often apply in the water. Like taking a dose of aspirin not the whole bottle. As in reaching but not overreaching & crossing over. I've only been swimming (relatively) seriously for 7mo, but another Penick pearl also comes to mind as I face my 1st Oly next weekend. Don't try to rebuild your whole stroke just before an event. |
| 2009-08-07 9:49 AM in reply to: #2333143 |
Veteran 274 outskirts of town | Subject: RE: Swimming Stroke vs The Golf Swing Thanks. My fear is that I will run to the pool with every new tip, and end up with a swim stroke similar to my messed up golf swing. I plan on receiving some proper coaching over the winter, so hopefully they will help me correct my bad form. This breathing tip seems to have unlocked something for me though! Thanks for the swing tip! Just another thought I have to put in my head! |
| 2009-08-07 11:23 AM in reply to: #2333143 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Swimming Stroke vs The Golf Swing I use the swim/golf analogy often. To your particular question regarding looking back slightly, here are my thoughts: You are saying that by breathing this way you are able to reach further and pull more effectively and your shoulders are no longer the main source of soreness. This is all because you've improved your rotation. You can swim very flat in the water and breathe to the side, all you have to do is turn your head via your neck. In order to look back slightly and no inhale water, you must rotate your body to get a clean shot of air. One of the easiest indicators that someone is not rotating is shoulder pain. (I'm not going to go into that in great detail here but if you're interested I discussed it here). By rotating your body you've relieved the pressure on your shoulders, positioned yourself so that gliding is easier and more effective and making your pulls more complete (thereby putting the pressure on your lats.). That one change you made to your breathing, corrected a number of other things without you even trying. (As a side note, this is one of the few problems with TI. They make some general statements without correcting the problem. If the problem was corrected then often many problems are corrected and then you wouldn't have to focus on 15 drills for all your issues, you would just need 3 as the others would disappear.) TJ |
| 2009-08-07 2:42 PM in reply to: #2333143 |
| New Haven, CT | Subject: RE: Swimming Stroke vs The Golf Swing Golf is the only sport where you lose the equipment. I have never lost my swim suit during a long workout. GOlf balls, well... |
| 2009-08-07 5:42 PM in reply to: #2334252 |
Veteran 274 outskirts of town | Subject: RE: Swimming Stroke vs The Golf Swing tjfry - 2009-08-07 10:23 AM I use the swim/golf analogy often. To your particular question regarding looking back slightly, here are my thoughts: You are saying that by breathing this way you are able to reach further and pull more effectively and your shoulders are no longer the main source of soreness. This is all because you've improved your rotation. You can swim very flat in the water and breathe to the side, all you have to do is turn your head via your neck. In order to look back slightly and no inhale water, you must rotate your body to get a clean shot of air. One of the easiest indicators that someone is not rotating is shoulder pain. (I'm not going to go into that in great detail here but if you're interested I discussed it here). By rotating your body you've relieved the pressure on your shoulders, positioned yourself so that gliding is easier and more effective and making your pulls more complete (thereby putting the pressure on your lats.). That one change you made to your breathing, corrected a number of other things without you even trying. (As a side note, this is one of the few problems with TI. They make some general statements without correcting the problem. If the problem was corrected then often many problems are corrected and then you wouldn't have to focus on 15 drills for all your issues, you would just need 3 as the others would disappear.) TJ This is a very good assessment now that I think about it! It also felt like I was able to breath easier, and get a better breath with this method, and I didn't feel so rushed. It was a eureka moment for sure. Like I said my time wasn't much better, but I feel like I now have a foundation to build from. To be sure I have other things that need looking at, but like the golf swing, you gotta put in the practise! |
| 2009-08-07 6:12 PM in reply to: #2333143 |
Veteran 274 outskirts of town | Subject: RE: Swimming Stroke vs The Golf Swing I swim with my mouth open... like a catfish. HA! I exhale through my mouth and inhale through it. I try to close it when I'm in open water... but it doesn't really happen. Exhale while your face is in the water and inhale when it's out. When you turn your head to the side to breathe, also tip your chin back towards your shoulder. It doesn't need to touch the shoulder, but should go slightly back in that direction. Good luck! PS- If you can get video of you swimming, people can give you some specific pointers and you can see what you are doing right and wrong. I found it!! The above post was from KSH! It was the fourth paragraph. That little nugget was the one that helped. That's why this site is becoming more addictive than Raisin Bran for me!! Thanks KSH!! |
| 2009-08-07 8:12 PM in reply to: #2334752 |
Master 2426 Central Indiana | Subject: RE: Swimming Stroke vs The Golf Swing jsklarz - 2009-08-07 3:42 PM Golf is the only sport where you lose the equipment. I have never lost my swim suit during a long workout. GOlf balls, well... You've never lost a locked bike during your pool workout |
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