Going all in vs. Finishing
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2009-08-11 10:42 AM |
Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: Going all in vs. Finishing For the past few months, my training plan for my first IM was just to finish; I really didn't care where I placed so long as I finished. Having never done anything like this I honestly have no clue where I would finish; other than the fact that I wont break sub 10. |
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2009-08-11 10:50 AM in reply to: #2341268 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing Ramping up from 6-8 to 14-16 (assuming no intervening steps) is asking for injury/burn-out. When you go all-in, you still want to stack the odds in your favor as much as possible. Otherwise, you are more likly to go bust. It's a non-optimal strategy. It sounds to me like you are going way across the dividing line. |
2009-08-11 10:54 AM in reply to: #2341268 |
Pro 4277 Parker, CO | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing in my opinion it all in or nothing. to go in with "just finish" attitude is a waste of effort. sure only one person will wim but if you are going to spend all the money to do something like this then you owe it to yourself to know what you are capable of and shoot for that goal. for some it will be sub 10-hours and some it will be 14-hours or longer. But really, why race something like an IM and only give 75 percent. I'm training for Redman and while my goal is to finish...I also have a pretty good idea what my time will be if I have a good race...that's what I am shooting for and nothing less than that! sure, anything can happen during 140 miles and I could end up walking part of the run. But that's not part of my plan. I want to finish with the best possible time i can. The time and money invested to do one of these events requires a best effort! |
2009-08-11 11:05 AM in reply to: #2341268 |
over a barrier | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing Dude....14hrs a week and you're nine MONTHS out. You're going to destory yourself mentally. Right now, Train to Train. Work on your limiters and enjoy some work/life/training balance. When you're 20 weeks out shift from Training to Train.....to.....Training for Ironman. Don't think about Ironman until 20 weeks out. 8-10 hrs a week is great right now. Just get the work done because next Spring your life completely changes :-) |
2009-08-11 11:15 AM in reply to: #2341268 |
Extreme Veteran 413 | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing I think if you're plan to go 'all in' as you put it and you don't have a lot of knowledge (I'm assuming!) on the topic - get yourself a coach. The hours you talk about might be used in other ways this far out from the IM - like learning bike maintenance, planning nutrition, practicing transitions etc. I'm in exactly the same position as I think you are. I did Austria this year in 12:45 - and I learnt a lot from that experience - I now want to see if I can go 10:xx:xx in two years time. I'm going with a coach to get me there. good luck. You've got the determination to succeed so with a sensible approach - you will |
2009-08-11 11:30 AM in reply to: #2341268 |
Elite 3687 | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing 9 months out is waaaay to soon to be putting in 14-16 hours. Start reading some books about IM training, get a coach, check some of the plans on BT, keep asking questions. Best of luck and train smart. |
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2009-08-11 11:31 AM in reply to: #2341346 |
Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing running2far - 2009-08-11 9:05 AM Dude....14hrs a week and you're nine MONTHS out. You're going to destory yourself mentally. Well, I've taken that into consideration and its definately a valid one; I've worked my way up gradually but I did notice my first difficult week I felt depressed, and my guess it was from overtraining. I'm new to IM training but 14 doesn't sound like much, my long bike is 4-5 hours, with a long 2 hour run which is half my time. My biggest question is if a 70+ miler each week is too much. |
2009-08-11 11:36 AM in reply to: #2341268 |
Pro 5169 Burbs | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing Your logs are totally empty --- BTers will be able to better answer your questions if we know what your training looks like. You may want to consider training for something else FIRST. I signed up for my IM- like most people - 1 year out. I trained for a marathon winter though March, then a HIM until July, then I started IM training. You look like a candiate for mental and physical burnout ... are you following any sort of plan right now ? |
2009-08-11 11:40 AM in reply to: #2341268 |
Champion 7547 Albuquerque, New Mexico | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing Huzzah for breaking out of the "I just want to finish" rationalization. There is a time and a place for that, and in my case, it happed at mile 67 of the IMCdA bike course. When I signed up a year ago, I set a goal of 12-13 hours and let that drive the training. I knew if I wanted to swim 1:15 (1:47/100 pace) I'd need to push beyond my comfort zone in the pool and start doing 100's faster than 1:40. I knew if I wanted a 6-hour bike split, I needed to have 100-mile training rides in 5.5 hours or better. It wasn't going to be "good enough" to spend 7 or 8 hours on my 100-mile rides. Here's an observation: Look at some of the "fast" people here on BT, and you'll be surprised to not find a lot of monster volumes. I had equal and in some cases higher volume than some of these guys and my most optimistic finish was about 1.5-2 hours longer than their expected finish. Why is that? They're much more rigorous about following a structured training plan to maximize the training benefits. They hit the tempo sessions with a lot more gusto than I do. They pay closer attention to nutrition and recovery than I do. I don't begrudge their results. Good luck. Hire a coach. Discuss your goals and agree on a plan, and then follow the plan as much as you can. Be accountable to your coach for how well you execute his/her plan and the results will come. You'll show up at St. George healthy and ready to race. |
2009-08-11 11:50 AM in reply to: #2341470 |
Master 2301 Rogersville, Alabama | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing McFuzz - 2009-08-11 11:40 AM Huzzah for breaking out of the "I just want to finish" rationalization. There is a time and a place for that, and in my case, it happed at mile 67 of the IMCdA bike course. When I signed up a year ago, I set a goal of 12-13 hours and let that drive the training. I knew if I wanted to swim 1:15 (1:47/100 pace) I'd need to push beyond my comfort zone in the pool and start doing 100's faster than 1:40. I knew if I wanted a 6-hour bike split, I needed to have 100-mile training rides in 5.5 hours or better. It wasn't going to be "good enough" to spend 7 or 8 hours on my 100-mile rides. Here's an observation: Look at some of the "fast" people here on BT, and you'll be surprised to not find a lot of monster volumes. I had equal and in some cases higher volume than some of these guys and my most optimistic finish was about 1.5-2 hours longer than their expected finish. Why is that? They're much more rigorous about following a structured training plan to maximize the training benefits. They hit the tempo sessions with a lot more gusto than I do. They pay closer attention to nutrition and recovery than I do. I don't begrudge their results. Good luck. Hire a coach. Discuss your goals and agree on a plan, and then follow the plan as much as you can. Be accountable to your coach for how well you execute his/her plan and the results will come. You'll show up at St. George healthy and ready to race. x2 I can't agree more with this. |
2009-08-11 12:08 PM in reply to: #2341440 |
over a barrier | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing furiousferret - 2009-08-11 11:31 AM running2far - 2009-08-11 9:05 AM Dude....14hrs a week and you're nine MONTHS out. You're going to destory yourself mentally. Well, I've taken that into consideration and its definately a valid one; I've worked my way up gradually but I did notice my first difficult week I felt depressed, and my guess it was from overtraining. I'm new to IM training but 14 doesn't sound like much, my long bike is 4-5 hours, with a long 2 hour run which is half my time. My biggest question is if a 70+ miler each week is too much. You're right, its doesn't sound like much and in the middle of IM training it probably won't be that much. You'll most likely be averaging that week in and week out. However, you start that now.....your head will not be right when its time to flip the go switch for IM training. You can only string together some many weeks of going long or going hard and the body needs a break. The last thing you need is to not want to train while you're in week 3 of your IM training....that is a bad place to be. |
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2009-08-11 1:19 PM in reply to: #2341268 |
Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing I usually track things in Garmin Training Center and Excel, I'll have to start using the BT logs... |
2009-08-11 1:35 PM in reply to: #2341268 |
Elite 3235 San Diego | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing I agree, 9 months out is a long time to be focused on one race. I usually only do one race a year and even with that I don't train for that race all year. You will hate the training if that is all you think about for the next 9 months. Also, I don't have a problem with "just wanting to finish". I go into every race with 3 goals: |
2009-08-11 2:04 PM in reply to: #2341268 |
Member 34 Denver-ish | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing I'm in a similar boat. I've just signed up for IMCdA. This will be, hands down, the largest race in my life. When I signed away my dough, my goal was to finish. In the past week though, I've started to say 'why would I invest all of this work *just to finish*?'. And then, immediately afterwards, 'why would I focus on the IM rather than focussing on my longer term goals and have IM be a part of that instead?'. I just wrote this to a buddy in an e-mail. These will be revised, but here are the goals I have developed thus far.... The short term goal includes bringing me to the point of getting ready to train for the IM. I envision this to be fun stuff (MTB), maybe a masters swimming program, and getting up to and managing maybe 30-40 MPW in the shoes. In short, I the goal is to make sure my body won’t disintegrate when the real training begins.
The medium goal is to hit the IM with a legitimate chance of doing well. I hope to start turning this wheel late in the winter or early spring. This is the specific area in which I believe a coach would provide the most bang for the buck so to speak. The race is ~June 27th.
The long range goal (the *real* goal) is to develop this experience into a way of life. What good is it to do an IM if I’m a couch potato the next month? I’ve always sort of taken good health for granted because I’ve always had it. I doubt I’ll be doing another IM unless I bonk. However, getting back into Xterras and MTB races then maybe doing an annual marathon or something are a part of the longer plan. HTH, YMMV. |
2009-08-11 2:07 PM in reply to: #2341840 |
Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing madcow - 2009-08-11 11:35 AM I agree, 9 months out is a long time to be focused on one race. I usually only do one race a year and even with that I don't train for that race all year. You will hate the training if that is all you think about for the next 9 months. Also, I don't have a problem with "just wanting to finish". I go into every race with 3 goals: X2, although I would add a #4, enjoy the race |
2009-08-11 3:03 PM in reply to: #2341268 |
Elite 5316 Alturas, California | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing I agree, pick a plan or a coach and work the plan. I just finished my first IM, my first goal was to just finish. If that is "all" that I did I would have been fine with it. My 2nd goal was to finish in 15 hours or less. My third goal was to not walk during the run. I worked the plan as well as I could for my training level and ended up at 12:16. If someone told me I would have finished in 12:xx hours I would have said they were nuts. Just get a solid plan, work it, and see how it turns out. Once you have one under your belt, you will know what needs to be improved on. |
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2009-08-11 8:51 PM in reply to: #2341268 |
Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing madcow - 2009-08-11 11:35 AM I agree, 9 months out is a long time to be focused on one race. I usually only do one race a year and even with that I don't train for that race all year. You will hate the training if that is all you think about for the next 9 months. I have a few races prior to IMSG. I'm going to run a 5k this weekend, a 4 mile /4k elevation run (Run to Mt. Baldy), a Mud Run, and an Oly in October. I'm on the fence about the Vegas Mary, and I have the Baker to Vegas Relay Race which I run every year. Next year I plan on doing the SoCal Triple Crown, which is 3 centuries, and alot of climbing over a few weeks. However, with the exception of Baker to Vegas (which is a team relay) none are what I consider an 'A' race. The only thing I'm really new to is swimming, but I've been in the running and cycling game for years; I'd be (and have been) doing this stuff regardless of if I signed up for an IM. I didn't want to give the impression I came straight from the couch to training for an IM. Edited by furiousferret 2009-08-11 8:56 PM |
2009-08-11 9:02 PM in reply to: #2341939 |
Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing miwoodar - 2009-08-11 12:04 PM I'm in a similar boat. I've just signed up for IMCdA. This will be, hands down, the largest race in my life. When I signed away my dough, my goal was to finish. In the past week though, I've started to say 'why would I invest all of this work *just to finish*?'. And then, immediately afterwards, 'why would I focus on the IM rather than focussing on my longer term goals and have IM be a part of that instead?'. I just wrote this to a buddy in an e-mail. These will be revised, but here are the goals I have developed thus far.... The short term goal includes bringing me to the point of getting ready to train for the IM. I envision this to be fun stuff (MTB), maybe a masters swimming program, and getting up to and managing maybe 30-40 MPW in the shoes. In short, I the goal is to make sure my body won’t disintegrate when the real training begins.
The medium goal is to hit the IM with a legitimate chance of doing well. I hope to start turning this wheel late in the winter or early spring. This is the specific area in which I believe a coach would provide the most bang for the buck so to speak. The race is ~June 27th.
The long range goal (the *real* goal) is to develop this experience into a way of life. What good is it to do an IM if I’m a couch potato the next month? I’ve always sort of taken good health for granted because I’ve always had it. I doubt I’ll be doing another IM unless I bonk. However, getting back into Xterras and MTB races then maybe doing an annual marathon or something are a part of the longer plan. HTH, YMMV. It sounds like we had the same epiphany. I couldn't agree with you more (except the fact that this probably wont be my last IM). |
2009-08-11 9:21 PM in reply to: #2341303 |
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2009-08-11 9:21 PM in reply to: #2341470 |
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2009-08-11 9:48 PM in reply to: #2341268 |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing Let's face it most of us that toe the line at an IM want to do our best. Clearly everyone's possible best time is vastly different. My secret goal is what someone's worst possible day might be...but so be it. Keep it fun! |
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2009-08-11 10:49 PM in reply to: #2342954 |
Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing KathyG - 2009-08-11 7:48 PM Let's face it most of us that toe the line at an IM want to do our best. Clearly everyone's possible best time is vastly different. My secret goal is what someone's worst possible day might be...but so be it. Keep it fun! Great post Kathy. Perfectly written |
2009-08-11 10:50 PM in reply to: #2342954 |
Expert 1073 scottsdale, az | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing KathyG - 2009-08-11 9:48 PM Let's face it most of us that toe the line at an IM want to do our best. Clearly everyone's possible best time is vastly different. My secret goal is what someone's worst possible day might be...but so be it. Keep it fun! +1. The training is the journey/hard part, the race was the reward and the FUN for me! My 1st IM, I set "goal times", but my 1st goal was to have fun. I'll be knocking off time on my next Ironman |
2009-08-12 6:50 AM in reply to: #2342954 |
Regular 67 | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing KathyG - 2009-08-11 9:48 PM Let's face it most of us that toe the line at an IM want to do our best. Clearly everyone's possible best time is vastly different. My secret goal is what someone's worst possible day might be...but so be it. Keep it fun! Very well said. |
2009-08-12 11:44 AM in reply to: #2341268 |
Veteran 197 Florida | Subject: RE: Going all in vs. Finishing I am old and getting older (thank goodness) , after 5 IM's I took the attitude of what the heck I am going to see how close to the redline I can stay at and if I blow, I blow, I 've already "just finished "enough of them. I beat my best time by 1 hour and 9 minutes and my wife and kids about missed me finish because I went so much faster than my expected time. It was a great feeling, really felt alive when I knew I was going to smash my PR. It was my 6th, I would have/did have a different plan for my first few. But hey, its supposed to be fun, go for it, just be careful you can hurt yourself in an IM. |
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