General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Mr. Smooth Freestyle Stroke Visualization Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 2
 
 
2009-08-17 10:18 AM
in reply to: #2349272

User image

Member
94
252525
Austin, TX
Subject: RE: Mr. Smooth Freestyle Stroke Visualization
As a swimming beginner, so far this site is very helpful.  Thanks for the info and for answering all our questions!


2009-08-17 11:24 AM
in reply to: #2352793

User image

Champion
5376
5000100100100252525
PA
Subject: RE: Mr. Smooth Freestyle Stroke Visualization
Adam Young - 2009-08-17 10:26 AM
LeahDD - 2009-08-15 7:10 AM I'm a really slow swimmer.  I've been told my technique is good, but the fastest I can achieve is maybe 2:30 per 100 meters.  I was looking at the Wetronome that Swim Smooth offers for sale.  What do you think about using something like this to help a slow swimmer get faster?
Hi Leah, many coaches might poo-poo the idea of someone in the 2:30 speed bracket using a tool like the Wetronome - saying you've got to learn the basics of the stroke before focusing on stroke rate. To some extent this is true - but here's something from my experience:

I coach 5 or 6 women a week who are a similar speed to yourself, as a rule they all lack confidence in the water and struggle a little to co-ordinate the stroke. Each one finds using a Wetronome to set stroke rate to be a very positive experience. It gives them something to focus on and swim to - it sets a tempo for them when there is very little rhythm in their stroke. These girls all have stroke rates in the low 40s per minute which is extremely slow - their arm stroke is so slow and gentle under the water they're getting very little propulsion from it. For sure their catch and pull action is also fairly poor but even if you took someone with a perfect catch action and slowed down their stroke that much they're not going to get much propulsion from it.

By raising their stroke rate a bit (depending how tall them are, into the 50-60 strokes per minute range) we can give them a tempo to work to. The resultant positive stroke action helps them generate much more propulsion (still not a huge amount but it's all relative). Once they are feeling some propulsion they start to get a feel for the water and from there we can work on improving their stroke action as they start to feel what's going on.

It's not about putting more effort in or working harder, it's about getting them in touch with a positive rhythm and timing to the stroke. Without seeing you swim Leah I can't be sure but I think it's very likely you'd fall into this catagory and a Wetronome would be a worthwhile investment to help you set a tempo for your swimming.

Any coaches or technical swimmers out there might find this article interesting (my words above explain why we have 'overly low stroke rate' in level 1): www.swimsmooth.com/hierarchy

Hope that helps, Adam


I think this makes sense.  I've been just working on building up distance and I'm slow (typically 2:30 to 2:40 / 100yd) but when I tried to just see how fast I could swim a few 50's, I found that it came out to 1:30 / 100yd.  I learned how to swim basically after reading the TI book and I think that mentally, I focused on just trying to make things as smooth and effortless as possible.  I am hopeful that just working on the sets now will help me but I want to look into this wetronome idea to see how it works.  An audible aid to give me an idea of a good stroke rate sounds like a good idea to me.

It doesn't seem much different than working on a higher bike cadence.
2009-08-19 7:24 AM
in reply to: #2353215


9

Subject: RE: Mr. Smooth Freestyle Stroke Visualization
Pector55 - 2009-08-17 12:24 AM

I think this makes sense.  I've been just working on building up distance and I'm slow (typically 2:30 to 2:40 / 100yd) but when I tried to just see how fast I could swim a few 50's, I found that it came out to 1:30 / 100yd.  I learned how to swim basically after reading the TI book and I think that mentally, I focused on just trying to make things as smooth and effortless as possible.  I am hopeful that just working on the sets now will help me but I want to look into this wetronome idea to see how it works.  An audible aid to give me an idea of a good stroke rate sounds like a good idea to me.

It doesn't seem much different than working on a higher bike cadence.
Hi Pector,

I'm glad that makes sense.

Quick question here - are you sure about those times? I've never met someone swimming 2:30-2:40 per 100 who can swim 1:30 per 100 pace for 50.

Adam
2009-08-19 9:02 AM
in reply to: #2357486

User image

Champion
5376
5000100100100252525
PA
Subject: RE: Mr. Smooth Freestyle Stroke Visualization
Adam Young - 2009-08-19 8:24 AM
Pector55 - 2009-08-17 12:24 AM

I think this makes sense.  I've been just working on building up distance and I'm slow (typically 2:30 to 2:40 / 100yd) but when I tried to just see how fast I could swim a few 50's, I found that it came out to 1:30 / 100yd.  I learned how to swim basically after reading the TI book and I think that mentally, I focused on just trying to make things as smooth and effortless as possible.  I am hopeful that just working on the sets now will help me but I want to look into this wetronome idea to see how it works.  An audible aid to give me an idea of a good stroke rate sounds like a good idea to me.

It doesn't seem much different than working on a higher bike cadence.
Hi Pector,

I'm glad that makes sense.

Quick question here - are you sure about those times? I've never met someone swimming 2:30-2:40 per 100 who can swim 1:30 per 100 pace for 50.

Adam


You are right, I don't know where I got a 1:30 from.  Basically, I did 18 x 50's and my times were from 55 sec to 1:02 so that comes out to 1:50 - 2:04 / 100's.  I started out in the 50 sec range for the first 5 sets, then dropped to 1:02 and was pretty consistant in there the rest of the time.  I did not do flip turns or push off hard at the end of the pool either.  I gave a light push to try to simulate natural continous movement.  Plus, if I push off hard, my hrm moves.

What I found was that I was over gliding and yes, I had dead spots like your site suggested.  By upping the stroke rate, the bottom of the pool was moving by at a much more steady rate.

Edited by Pector55 2009-08-19 9:05 AM
2009-08-19 3:00 PM
in reply to: #2352793

User image

Expert
1773
10005001001002525
San Gabriel Valley, California
Subject: RE: Mr. Smooth Freestyle Stroke Visualization
Adam Young - 2009-08-17 7:26 AM
LeahDD - 2009-08-15 7:10 AM I'm a really slow swimmer.  I've been told my technique is good, but the fastest I can achieve is maybe 2:30 per 100 meters.  I was looking at the Wetronome that Swim Smooth offers for sale.  What do you think about using something like this to help a slow swimmer get faster?
Hi Leah, many coaches might poo-poo the idea of someone in the 2:30 speed bracket using a tool like the Wetronome - saying you've got to learn the basics of the stroke before focusing on stroke rate. To some extent this is true - but here's something from my experience:

.... their arm stroke is so slow and gentle under the water they're getting very little propulsion from it. For sure their catch and pull action is also fairly poor but even if you took someone with a perfect catch action and slowed down their stroke that much they're not going to get much propulsion from it.

Hope that helps, Adam


I think my problem is that my arm stroke under the water is "slow and gentle."  I have started working on this.  I do believe that my basic form is pretty good.  So, assuming that it is true that I am slow because I have a slow and gentle underwater arm stroke, would the Wetronome help with that and, if so, how?  I am willing to try most anything because I am really tired of being the slowest person in the slow lane at my masters class. 
2009-08-21 6:08 AM
in reply to: #2358642


9

Subject: RE: Mr. Smooth Freestyle Stroke Visualization
LeahDD - 2009-08-19 4:00 AM
I think my problem is that my arm stroke under the water is "slow and gentle."  I have started working on this.  I do believe that my basic form is pretty good.  So, assuming that it is true that I am slow because I have a slow and gentle underwater arm stroke, would the Wetronome help with that and, if so, how?  I am willing to try most anything because I am really tired of being the slowest person in the slow lane at my masters class. 
Hi Leah,

Sorry I've been tied up for a couple of days!

For someone like yourself, helping you set a rhythm to your stroke is very important. The Wetronome does that - it gives you a reference to work to. This isn't about making you work harder but creating a 'postivity' to your movements. A positive arm stroke under the water, pushing the water back behind you with this action is the key to boosting your propulsion and having you swimming faster.

Part of this is a confidence thing - setting the Wetronome to a stroke rate that you know you should be able to achieve can help give you the confidence to 'go for it'.

Does that make sense?

Cheers, Adam


New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Mr. Smooth Freestyle Stroke Visualization Rss Feed  
 
 
of 2