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Racing in Clydesdale Division (Page 2)
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 2009-09-02 9:03 AM in reply to: #2384541 |
Champion  10154    Alabama |  Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale DivisionRudedog55 - 2009-09-02 8:48 AM hockeyhands - 2009-09-02 8:54 AM I just don't want to be that guy that goes up to the podium and everybody thinks or says to their friends, "what is that guy doing racing in the clydes division?" Thanks a lot everyone! Nope us 6'2" 230lbs clydes say...."I wanna be as fast as that guy maybe i should keep working hard", not "what is he doing racing Clyde??" at least that is me.
Not me. There is only one man I'm trying to beat and that's the man I was last year. Lots a ways to measure a man....how fast he can s/b/r is just not something I put a lot of stock in.
~Mike Edited by Rogillio 2009-09-02 9:32 AM |
| 2009-09-02 9:06 AM in reply to: #2384541 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division Rudedog55 - 2009-09-02 9:48 AM hockeyhands - 2009-09-02 8:54 AM I just don't want to be that guy that goes up to the podium and everybody thinks or says to their friends, "what is that guy doing racing in the clydes division?" Thanks a lot everyone! Nope us 6'2" 230lbs clydes say...."I wanna be as fast as that guy maybe i should keep working hard", not "what is he doing racing Clyde??" at least that is me. Truth is, all the other racers pay attention to who won the Clyde division because those are the folks who can do the heavy lifting later when it's time to tear the podium down.  |
| 2009-09-02 9:19 AM in reply to: #2384541 |
Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division Rudedog55 - 2009-09-02 6:48 AM hockeyhands - 2009-09-02 8:54 AM I just don't want to be that guy that goes up to the podium and everybody thinks or says to their friends, "what is that guy doing racing in the clydes division?" Thanks a lot everyone! Nope us 6'2" 230lbs clydes say...."I wanna be as fast as that guy maybe i should keep working hard", not "what is he doing racing Clyde??" at least that is me. I still have a hard time wrapping around the idea of a different weight division. For one, what about the guy who is 5'3" with a 'clyde' build who has to race in an AG category because he's 195? The division does cater to taller athletes, and what about the the 40 other categories we can classify others to? I have asthma and am technically disabled (I can't bend my thumb) where's my special division? What about the guy with a hybrid bike? Can we get a hybrid bike division? Or a non wetsuit division? At 5'8" 180 lbs, I have to drop 20 lbs to be competitive in this sport. There's just no way around it. Someone 6 inches taller than me with the same bodyfat gets a free pass on that? I'd be more open to it if it was based on a scaled height / weight but right now its a huge advantage for people over 6'. Edited by furiousferret 2009-09-02 9:35 AM |
| 2009-09-02 9:31 AM in reply to: #2384582 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division Pector55 - 2009-09-02 9:06 AM Rudedog55 - 2009-09-02 9:48 AM hockeyhands - 2009-09-02 8:54 AM I just don't want to be that guy that goes up to the podium and everybody thinks or says to their friends, "what is that guy doing racing in the clydes division?" Thanks a lot everyone! Nope us 6'2" 230lbs clydes say...."I wanna be as fast as that guy maybe i should keep working hard", not "what is he doing racing Clyde??" at least that is me. Truth is, all the other racers pay attention to who won the Clyde division because those are the folks who can do the heavy lifting later when it's time to tear the podium down.
LOL!!! |
| 2009-09-02 9:50 AM in reply to: #2384541 |
Expert 1060 Weymouth, MA | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division Rudedog55 - 2009-09-02 9:48 AM hockeyhands - 2009-09-02 8:54 AM I just don't want to be that guy that goes up to the podium and everybody thinks or says to their friends, "what is that guy doing racing in the clydes division?" Thanks a lot everyone! Nope us 6'2" 230lbs clydes say...."I wanna be as fast as that guy maybe i should keep working hard", not "what is he doing racing Clyde??" at least that is me. Now, that's a true clyde right there! A big tough dude who hammers the bike and is working to get faster on the run. Not hiding behind the designation. Rudy is the man... |
| 2009-09-02 9:54 AM in reply to: #2384619 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division furiousferret - 2009-09-02 9:19 AM At 5'8" 180 lbs, I have to drop 20 lbs to be competitive in this sport. There's just no way around it. Someone 6 inches taller than me with the same bodyfat gets a free pass on that? I'd be more open to it if it was based on a scaled height / weight but right now its a huge advantage for people over 6'. Everyone thinks he's at a disadvantage. I've 5'9", running just a shade over 200lbs, and consider myself very competitive, especially in local races. Five triathlons raced in August, four AG wins, 9th overall in my last race (out of 217 finishers), first finisher over 50-yo. Somethings are only a handicap if you let them be. I'm completely neutral on this weight-class argument, very few of my races offer it, wouldn't give a thought to registering that way if they did. Bottom line is it's a marketing device used to entice the heavier (fit or not) competitors to register. As I said earlier, if you qualify and want to race the classification, more power to you. |
| 2009-09-02 9:58 AM in reply to: #2384281 |
| Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division Rogillio - 2009-09-02 4:02 AM ChrisM - 2009-09-02 12:34 AM I was suprised to learn that M-dot IM events don't have a clyde/athena division. I wonder why? :-) Maybe they don't think many 250 guys like me (at my last 2 IMs) would be doing an IM. ~Mike Up until last year they did, I think IMAZ was the last because I was a clyde there. Although they stopped listing results separately after wisconsin, I think
2007, 2008 and 2009 IMKY did not offer a clyde/athena division....but IMKY has always been the red-headed stepchild or Rodney Dangerfield of M-dot races.
IMKY was never an NAS race, so it must have been an NAS thing |
| 2009-09-02 10:01 AM in reply to: #2384714 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division rcberto - 2009-09-02 9:50 AM Rudedog55 - 2009-09-02 9:48 AM hockeyhands - 2009-09-02 8:54 AM I just don't want to be that guy that goes up to the podium and everybody thinks or says to their friends, "what is that guy doing racing in the clydes division?" Thanks a lot everyone! Nope us 6'2" 230lbs clydes say...."I wanna be as fast as that guy maybe i should keep working hard", not "what is he doing racing Clyde??" at least that is me. Now, that's a true clyde right there! A big tough dude who hammers the bike and is working to get faster on the run. Not hiding behind the designation. Rudy is the man...
Hiding behind the designation?! Are you kidding me? No offense taken. I finished my last IM 1210th out of 1788 finishers at 254 lbs. This is still BOP but it's an hour and half faster than the IM I did the previous year. I will never be competitive with 200 lbs men and don't care but don't accuse me of hiding behind the designation and thinking only guys who want to win work hard. Some people work their arse off and will always be BOP clydes. ~Mike |
| 2009-09-02 10:08 AM in reply to: #2383304 |
Extreme Veteran 1942 In front of computer when typing this. | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division This discussion always fascinates me. If it truly doesn't matter to people where they finish and the race is truly with just themselves, then why choose to race in a separate division? Why not just enter the AG division and be done with it since the results are against yourself. The main benefit (to me, a non-clyde) is that you are racing against a smaller pool of people in the clyde division and therefore have a better shot at winning something. OK, it is a heavier division so it evens things out in the respect, but if the race is truly with yourself, then who cares how much/little you weigh since it is you against you? |
| 2009-09-02 10:21 AM in reply to: #2384772 |
Champion 8540 the colony texas | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division louiskie - 2009-09-02 10:08 AM This discussion always fascinates me. If it truly doesn't matter to people where they finish and the race is truly with just themselves, then why choose to race in a separate division? Why not just enter the AG division and be done with it since the results are against yourself. The main benefit (to me, a non-clyde) is that you are racing against a smaller pool of people in the clyde division and therefore have a better shot at winning something. OK, it is a heavier division so it evens things out in the respect, but if the race is truly with yourself, then who cares how much/little you weigh since it is you against you? then why have AG divisions... if your not the first across the line... you are last |
| 2009-09-02 10:28 AM in reply to: #2384820 |
Extreme Veteran 1942 In front of computer when typing this. | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division Gaarryy - 2009-09-02 11:21 AM louiskie - 2009-09-02 10:08 AM This discussion always fascinates me. If it truly doesn't matter to people where they finish and the race is truly with just themselves, then why choose to race in a separate division? Why not just enter the AG division and be done with it since the results are against yourself. The main benefit (to me, a non-clyde) is that you are racing against a smaller pool of people in the clyde division and therefore have a better shot at winning something. OK, it is a heavier division so it evens things out in the respect, but if the race is truly with yourself, then who cares how much/little you weigh since it is you against you? then why have AG divisions... if your not the first across the line... you are last I'm not saying its bad to have different divisions. I am saying that is you truly don't care about where you place because the race is only with yourself, then why bother signing up for a "special" (for lack of a better word...no offense intended) division? Default is AG; almost every other division you have to have something to "get you in". For me, I am mostly concerned with how I do against my own predictions but I also think it is fun to place higher in my AG than in other races (although it is so dependent on the field). If racing in clydes to place higher than you would in AG is a motivating factor, thats perfectly fine, but then don't make the argument that you race in clydes but don't care about placement. Thats all I am saying. To me, its a similar debate as to whether you should sign up for a small local race in the hopes of placing, versus a larger race where you will finish further back. |
| 2009-09-02 10:43 AM in reply to: #2384836 |
Expert 724 Simi Valley | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division louiskie - 2009-09-02 8:28 AM Gaarryy - 2009-09-02 11:21 AM louiskie - 2009-09-02 10:08 AM This discussion always fascinates me. If it truly doesn't matter to people where they finish and the race is truly with just themselves, then why choose to race in a separate division? Why not just enter the AG division and be done with it since the results are against yourself. The main benefit (to me, a non-clyde) is that you are racing against a smaller pool of people in the clyde division and therefore have a better shot at winning something. OK, it is a heavier division so it evens things out in the respect, but if the race is truly with yourself, then who cares how much/little you weigh since it is you against you? then why have AG divisions... if your not the first across the line... you are last I'm not saying its bad to have different divisions. I am saying that is you truly don't care about where you place because the race is only with yourself, then why bother signing up for a "special" (for lack of a better word...no offense intended) division? Default is AG; almost every other division you have to have something to "get you in". For me, I am mostly concerned with how I do against my own predictions but I also think it is fun to place higher in my AG than in other races (although it is so dependent on the field). If racing in clydes to place higher than you would in AG is a motivating factor, thats perfectly fine, but then don't make the argument that you race in clydes but don't care about placement. Thats all I am saying. To me, its a similar debate as to whether you should sign up for a small local race in the hopes of placing, versus a larger race where you will finish further back. Actually - the only natural default is gender. And if you look at recent track and field issues and the process of chromosome testing employed in the Olympics, even that can get complicated. All professional races are split solely by gender. So all divisions are artificial creations to generate three things ideally : 1.) balanced competition, 2.) Event promotion, and 3.) Structure to competition. The third point is related to how many races balance their wave starts by AG and/or A/C breakouts to allow for appropriate lifeguard supervision. Look at it like buying a car - some folks are best served by body type (I need a truck vs. I need to sit 4+), some folks are interested are in particular makes and models (I prefer sporty to utility), and some folks will compare the leather interior options between comparable models. It does not make one consumer right or wrong. OH and to the OP, I agree with the Bear, race at just a shade over 300, and would not hate on you. |
| 2009-09-02 10:49 AM in reply to: #2384731 |
Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division the bear - 2009-09-02 7:54 AM Everyone thinks he's at a disadvantage. I've 5'9", running just a shade over 200lbs, and consider myself very competitive, especially in local races. Five triathlons raced in August, four AG wins, 9th overall in my last race (out of 217 finishers), first finisher over 50-yo. Somethings are only a handicap if you let them be. I'm completely neutral on this weight-class argument, very few of my races offer it, wouldn't give a thought to registering that way if they did. Bottom line is it's a marketing device used to entice the heavier (fit or not) competitors to register. As I said earlier, if you qualify and want to race the classification, more power to you. I do agree that 95% of the field does think they're at a disadvantage, and they're right. However no one really cares, that is unless you're disadvantage is being over 200 lbs. I'm not trying to use my weight as an excuse, any coach would tell me to drop 20 lbs, I'm just stating a point that its a counters a major principle of the sport. I don't think there's a real answer to it; setting a weight is a marketing tool and a huge advantage for some. A 6'6" 200 lb runner competing would have an advantage akin to me competing in the disadvantaged racers because I only have 40% range of motion in my left thumb. Would I ever do that? No, I'm just pointing out that the Clyde / Athena is alot fuzzier than the Age format. In the end, its real easy for me to be anti as I just don't have the body type to get over 200. Even when I was benching 310 and eating 5k calories a day I was only 190. I'm just too short and dont have that 'husky' build. I'm sure its just as easy for someone who is over 200 to argue for it. |
| 2009-09-02 11:01 AM in reply to: #2383304 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division I submit that ALL divisions are aribitrary! Pro, amature, age group, gender, masters, clyde, athena, clyde-masters even handicap. There is really only one winner in a race, the first guy to cross the finishline. But if an RD decides to divide up the field into a bunch of smaller races so that people feel good about themselves becuase they "won" or "placed" then so be it. Race wherever you need to race to feel good about yourself and enjoy the race. If you are borderline on the weight, some people will scoff and some will assume you lied about your weight. I'm not saying this to discourage anyone, I'm just stating observations I've made over many years of triathlons. ~Mike Edited by Rogillio 2009-09-02 11:07 AM |
| 2009-09-02 11:08 AM in reply to: #2384899 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division Just a couple more thoughts... I think a lot of the complaints against the clydes are those who are NOT clydes and I don't think they understand what happens... BUT, based on my experience, you never know what's going to happen on race day. The statement that clydesdale is a "smaller pool" of athletes so a better chance to podium? Maybe. But I have been in many races where the clydesdale division is as big or bigger than any AG. Clydesdales are slower? Probably, but I have been in races that a clydesdale placed in the top 3 overall. I have been in races that I have won my clydesdale division, and races I have not even come close to a podium spot. Some of those races, had I chose to race AG, WOULD have gotten a podium spot. I have been seconds away from an AG podium spot in one race, and 3 weeks later, be a solid MOP. I have raced an Oly event and got skunked, but if I raced the sprint that day, would have won my AG. It's really random and depends on who shows up to race that day. Racing clyde, even if you are fast enough to compete in AG does NOT guarantee a podium spot (but probably doesn't hurt your chances though) I race clydesdale if it is offered and AG if it's not. I'm there to race. Races around here are about 50/50 if thy have the division or not. |
| 2009-09-02 11:17 AM in reply to: #2384714 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division rcberto - 2009-09-02 10:50 AM Rudedog55 - 2009-09-02 9:48 AM hockeyhands - 2009-09-02 8:54 AM I just don't want to be that guy that goes up to the podium and everybody thinks or says to their friends, "what is that guy doing racing in the clydes division?" Thanks a lot everyone! Nope us 6'2" 230lbs clydes say...."I wanna be as fast as that guy maybe i should keep working hard", not "what is he doing racing Clyde??" at least that is me. Now, that's a true clyde right there! A big tough dude who hammers the bike and is working to get faster on the run. Not hiding behind the designation. Rudy is the man... WTF? First off, big guys can't hide behind anything. |
| 2009-09-02 11:20 AM in reply to: #2383304 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division |
| 2009-09-02 11:31 AM in reply to: #2384772 |
Veteran 294 Papillion, NE | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division louiskie - 2009-09-02 10:08 AM This discussion always fascinates me. If it truly doesn't matter to people where they finish and the race is truly with just themselves, then why choose to race in a separate division? Why not just enter the AG division and be done with it since the results are against yourself. The main benefit (to me, a non-clyde) is that you are racing against a smaller pool of people in the clyde division and therefore have a better shot at winning something. OK, it is a heavier division so it evens things out in the respect, but if the race is truly with yourself, then who cares how much/little you weigh since it is you against you? Excellent post. |
| 2009-09-02 11:35 AM in reply to: #2384772 |
Expert 838 West Palm Beach, FL | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division louiskie - 2009-09-02 11:08 AM The main benefit (to me, a non-clyde) is that you are racing against a smaller pool of people in the clyde division and therefore have a better shot at winning something. To me the advantage of the Clyde division is seeing how I match up against competitors that have a similar body type to mine. I'm primarily concerned with personally improving as a triathlete since I'm new to this sport, but it's good to see the times the fittest 200+ pounders put up so I can get a sense of how I stack up as a large, fit person. I come from a combat sports background. If you think there's a lot of divisions in triathlon you should see a jiu jitsu tournament where competition is broken down by age, weight, sex and experience level. |
| 2009-09-02 11:35 AM in reply to: #2384731 |
Elite 3683 Whispering Pines, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division the bear - 2009-09-02 10:54 AM furiousferret - 2009-09-02 9:19 AM At 5'8" 180 lbs, I have to drop 20 lbs to be competitive in this sport. There's just no way around it. Someone 6 inches taller than me with the same bodyfat gets a free pass on that? I'd be more open to it if it was based on a scaled height / weight but right now its a huge advantage for people over 6'. Everyone thinks he's at a disadvantage. I've 5'9", running just a shade over 200lbs, and consider myself very competitive, especially in local races. Five triathlons raced in August, four AG wins, 9th overall in my last race (out of 217 finishers), first finisher over 50-yo. Somethings are only a handicap if you let them be. I'm completely neutral on this weight-class argument, very few of my races offer it, wouldn't give a thought to registering that way if they did. Bottom line is it's a marketing device used to entice the heavier (fit or not) competitors to register. As I said earlier, if you qualify and want to race the classification, more power to you. it's b/c you ride a cervelo |
| 2009-09-02 11:39 AM in reply to: #2385037 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division tri_d00d - 2009-09-02 11:35 AM the bear - 2009-09-02 10:54 AM furiousferret - 2009-09-02 9:19 AM At 5'8" 180 lbs, I have to drop 20 lbs to be competitive in this sport. There's just no way around it. Someone 6 inches taller than me with the same bodyfat gets a free pass on that? I'd be more open to it if it was based on a scaled height / weight but right now its a huge advantage for people over 6'. Everyone thinks he's at a disadvantage. I've 5'9", running just a shade over 200lbs, and consider myself very competitive, especially in local races. Five triathlons raced in August, four AG wins, 9th overall in my last race (out of 217 finishers), first finisher over 50-yo. Somethings are only a handicap if you let them be. I'm completely neutral on this weight-class argument, very few of my races offer it, wouldn't give a thought to registering that way if they did. Bottom line is it's a marketing device used to entice the heavier (fit or not) competitors to register. As I said earlier, if you qualify and want to race the classification, more power to you. it's b/c you ride a cervelo Yeah, they really should have a non-Cervelo division to help those disadvantaged athletes. |
| 2009-09-02 11:43 AM in reply to: #2385036 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division Spleen - 2009-09-02 12:35 PM louiskie - 2009-09-02 11:08 AM The main benefit (to me, a non-clyde) is that you are racing against a smaller pool of people in the clyde division and therefore have a better shot at winning something. To me the advantage of the Clyde division is seeing how I match up against competitors that have a similar body type to mine. I'm primarily concerned with personally improving as a triathlete since I'm new to this sport, but it's good to see the times the fittest 200+ pounders put up so I can get a sense of how I stack up as a large, fit person. I come from a combat sports background. If you think there's a lot of divisions in triathlon you should see a jiu jitsu tournament where competition is broken down by age, weight, sex and experience level.Exactly! |
| 2009-09-02 11:44 AM in reply to: #2385047 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division the bear - 2009-09-02 9:39 AM tri_d00d - 2009-09-02 11:35 AM the bear - 2009-09-02 10:54 AM furiousferret - 2009-09-02 9:19 AM At 5'8" 180 lbs, I have to drop 20 lbs to be competitive in this sport. There's just no way around it. Someone 6 inches taller than me with the same bodyfat gets a free pass on that? I'd be more open to it if it was based on a scaled height / weight but right now its a huge advantage for people over 6'. Everyone thinks he's at a disadvantage. I've 5'9", running just a shade over 200lbs, and consider myself very competitive, especially in local races. Five triathlons raced in August, four AG wins, 9th overall in my last race (out of 217 finishers), first finisher over 50-yo. Somethings are only a handicap if you let them be. I'm completely neutral on this weight-class argument, very few of my races offer it, wouldn't give a thought to registering that way if they did. Bottom line is it's a marketing device used to entice the heavier (fit or not) competitors to register. As I said earlier, if you qualify and want to race the classification, more power to you. it's b/c you ride a cervelo Yeah, they really should have a non-Cervelo division to help those disadvantaged athletes. agreed. |
| 2009-09-02 11:47 AM in reply to: #2385036 |
Champion 10154 Alabama | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division Spleen - 2009-09-02 11:35 AM louiskie - 2009-09-02 11:08 AM The main benefit (to me, a non-clyde) is that you are racing against a smaller pool of people in the clyde division and therefore have a better shot at winning something. To me the advantage of the Clyde division is seeing how I match up against competitors that have a similar body type to mine. I'm primarily concerned with personally improving as a triathlete since I'm new to this sport, but it's good to see the times the fittest 200+ pounders put up so I can get a sense of how I stack up as a large, fit person. I come from a combat sports background. If you think there's a lot of divisions in triathlon you should see a jiu jitsu tournament where competition is broken down by age, weight, sex and experience level.
Now that you mention it, I have heard of races that have a "first-timers" division. I thought was kinda funny but I guess it attacts some people. ~Mike |
| 2009-09-02 11:49 AM in reply to: #2385063 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: Racing in Clydesdale Division Rogillio - 2009-09-02 12:47 PM Spleen - 2009-09-02 11:35 AM louiskie - 2009-09-02 11:08 AM The main benefit (to me, a non-clyde) is that you are racing against a smaller pool of people in the clyde division and therefore have a better shot at winning something. To me the advantage of the Clyde division is seeing how I match up against competitors that have a similar body type to mine. I'm primarily concerned with personally improving as a triathlete since I'm new to this sport, but it's good to see the times the fittest 200+ pounders put up so I can get a sense of how I stack up as a large, fit person. I come from a combat sports background. If you think there's a lot of divisions in triathlon you should see a jiu jitsu tournament where competition is broken down by age, weight, sex and experience level.
Now that you mention it, I have heard of races that have a "first-timers" division. I thought was kinda funny but I guess it attacts some people. ~Mike I still think there should be a hummingbird divsion for the scrawny kids. Is reverse-stigma a valid term? haha |
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