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How accurate is a gait analysis?
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 2009-09-11 2:05 PM |
Master  1993     Riverside, IL |  Subject: How accurate is a gait analysis?My Brooks Adrenaline GTS 9's are in need of replacement (been running in them since Feb). So I stopped over at a Road Runner Sports retail store (which is where I bought the Adrenalines, btw) last weekend to go shoe shopping. The "kid" that was helping me, had me take my shoes & socks off and walk across this mat on the floor that measured pressure points as my foot contacted the ground. Based on this, he said that I mildly overpronate (which I already knew). He then had me run barefoot on a treadmill while he videotaped my feet during the run. When he played the video back, he said that I had a fairly straight foot strike...so he brought out a bunch of neutral shoes (Glycerin 7, Triumph 6, and Vomero 4), along with suggesting a cushioning insole to replace the stock one. Having been in stability shoes for the past few years, I was a little unsure of his analysis...but I figured I'd give it a try. Of the three shoes he had me try, I liked the Nike Vomero the best, in terms of comfort. It felt good on my 3 minute treadmill test...which is hardly enough of a test for me. The next day, I did a 3 mile run in them, and was nearly brought to tears by mile 1. The toes in my right foot were numb and tingly with intermittent sharp bursts of intense pain. The shoes felt way too "soft and squishy" for me...which I think exacerbated the numbing problems. So the next day, I swapped out that cushioned insole, with my heat-moldable ArchMolds insert that I've been using in my Brooks. Still no improvement, toes went numb within the first mile. Ended up going back to wearing my old Brooks ever since, and plan on returning the Vomero's and the insoles this weekend. I really think I belong in a stability shoe, so I'm not sure why he had me trying on neutral cushioned shoes. This scenario has happened to me a few times before, too. Two years ago, I got 2 different gait analysis results from Fleet Feet...one store said I overpronate and belong in a stability shoe...while another location said I was neutral and belong in a cushioned shoe. So...who the heck am I supposed to believe??? Exactly how accurate are these running store gait analysis? I've had so many inaccurate/inconsistent results with these gait analysis, that I'm starting to become a little skeptical of them. I think I'm just going to go back and return the Nike's for another pair of Adrenalines, and hope for the best. |
| 2009-09-11 2:10 PM in reply to: #2401226 |
| Subject: RE: How accurate is a gait analysis? Did you have any specific reason for wanting to look into another shoe, like injuries or discomfort, etc? If not, why fix what isn't broken? ETA: in terms of who to believe, I'm not sure. Some running stores are staffed by people who really know what they're doing, others not as much. I had a gait analysis done by a physical therapist, and while she didn't discredit what the running stores determined in terms of what shoe I should be in, she did see something very slight in my gait that no one else caught - when we slowed down the video tape. I saw it too. I'm in a neutral shoe and the PT said I didn't have to change the type of shoe. In the end, I think you probably know how things feel moreso than anyone else. A doc or a running store employee can't tell you how things feel on your feet, ya know? They can only assess and give suggestions and try different things. I knew that something was wrong, which is why I went to the PT, but I also know that the orthotics she prescribed caused me more problems trying to fix others. If the stability shoe works for you, stay there. Edited by wurkit_gurl 2009-09-11 2:17 PM |
| 2009-09-11 2:17 PM in reply to: #2401226 |
Elite 2796 Texas | Subject: RE: How accurate is a gait analysis? Two things I'll never do again: 1) Change running shoes if I have one that works. I run in Brooks Adrenaline. Unless they do something to change this shoe dramatically, I'll never run in anything else. 2) Get a gait analysis. I've had 4. I pronate, I supinate, I'm neutral, and I pronate. WTF. Thanks for nothing. Waste of time. I'm sure somebody, somewhere does it right. Whether there's any value in having it done correctly, I'll never know. See #1 above.  |
| 2009-09-11 2:23 PM in reply to: #2401226 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: How accurate is a gait analysis? The way as you described it IMO not very useful. Unless it is done by a sport physiologist (experienced in kinesielogy) with slow speed camera at different angles with different movements, you can't safely draw any conclusions about someone's gait. Furthermore, unless you test running economy before and after making any adjustements everything is just a guess and in many cases not very accurate. In terms of your specific post, I have become more and more over the past few years towards the thinking that less is more when it comes to running shoes. That is the less support the better. I am not sold on the whole barefoot running trend but I thik there is worth taking a look at stuff like the book born to run and some of the posts from the guys at the Science of Sports discuss something similar. But if I was you and you have been sucess runnig in a particular type/model/brand of shoe I would stick to it. good luck! Edited by JorgeM 2009-09-11 2:24 PM |
| 2009-09-11 2:31 PM in reply to: #2401226 |
| Veteran 585 Kenosha, WI | Subject: RE: How accurate is a gait analysis? I have a personal theory... its not science but i think that the shoe provides comfort and the insole/ arch supplies. I got an over the counter orthodic so to speak and I feel like I can run in a variety of shoes. My wife on the other hand insists on motion control shoes since she was told she pronates. if you find something that works stick with it... sounds like decent advice to me |
| 2009-09-11 2:36 PM in reply to: #2401226 |
| Subject: RE: How accurate is a gait analysis? Just to clarify - "pronation" is how your foot hits and rolls along the ground. Everyone pronates. So I'm guessing that those who said that they were told that they "pronate" really mean that they were told that they overpronate. Edited by wurkit_gurl 2009-09-11 2:36 PM |
| 2009-09-11 2:44 PM in reply to: #2401226 |
Member 190 Panama City Beach | Subject: RE: How accurate is a gait analysis? I try to visit as many running stores as I can. Even though I don't know a lot about gait, and shoe selection, I know enough to know when someone else doesn't know....ya know? I've been waited on by GOOD runners who didn't really know what they were doing, and by young kids that tried to pretend they knew. I have basically found two stores in which I trust their opinion on shoes, one is 7hrs away and the other is 8hrs away. |
| 2009-09-11 3:19 PM in reply to: #2401255 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: How accurate is a gait analysis? JorgeM - 2009-09-11 3:23 PM The way as you described it IMO not very useful. Unless it is done by a sport physiologist (experienced in kinesielogy) with slow speed camera at different angles with different movements, you can't safely draw any conclusions about someone's gait. Furthermore, unless you test running economy before and after making any adjustements everything is just a guess and in many cases not very accurate. What he said. With slow mo camera and the ability to sketch and measure over the image someone can get a better idea of where your foot falls in relation to your center-line. If your foot does not land in a vertical line with your leg (and falls inside of that) you end up classified as an "over-pronator" and they will typically suggest a stability shoe for you. I do not put a whole lot of credence in walking on a mat that shows hot spots for determining shoe choice. What it basically comes down to is ...... you want to get the lightest and least "supportive" shoe that you can handle unless there is a very specific reason to get something more cushioned. I say this as I am a believer that overly-cushioned shoes cause more problems and injuries for runners than they solve. My feelings, take 'em or leave 'em. Edited by Daremo 2009-09-11 3:21 PM |
| 2009-09-11 8:56 PM in reply to: #2401226 |
Champion 7704 Williamston, Michigan | Subject: RE: How accurate is a gait analysis? depends on who is doing the analysis. A running store employee with 15 minutes of education on what is pronation/supination etc is probab;y not terribly accurate. A PT ATC or sports physiologist is much better equipped. If you were happy in teh pronation shoes then take the shoes back and exchange them for a new pair of adrenalines. |
| 2009-09-12 12:29 AM in reply to: #2401226 |
Veteran 221 | Subject: RE: How accurate is a gait analysis? I think it's a bunch of hooey unless you've got some real experience in the shop. The first time I had one, I was told "supinator" and changed to a racing flat for all my running. Since then I've had amazing changes in my running and zero running injuries. I had gone through two pairs of Adizero's and was headed to a local running store in a new town. I took my old pair with me to show them my wear pattern and what I was looking for. When I walked in, both guys in the shop almost fell over laughing and making fun of me for running in those. I was a little shocked and slightly intimidated I hate to admit. One of them did the "walk this way and that" and told me I overpronate. Um, okay. I told them since I changed to those shoes I didn't have any problems. One of them practically looked down his nose at me and said he didn't think they carried shoes like that but he'd check. Then I started talking about Pose running, Vibram 5 Fingers, and barefoot running. Also may have added a snide remark about how cavemen must have had SO many problems back in the day. One of the guys finally started to change his tune and asked me if I had my five fingers with me. I keep them in my car, so I brought them in and we had a conversation about how running shoes have made people too reliant on the support and have lost the muscle and tendon strength in their feet. They managed to scrounge up a pair of Saucony Type A2 racers that were a little loud in color but fit well and felt good. They sold them to me, but seemed highly skeptical and asked me to let them know how they worked out. About 50 miles later, still feeling great. So much for their attitudes.  It took me about two months of building up my feet and lower leg muscles, but I'll never go back to regular shoes. Plus, racers are cheaper! |
| 2009-09-12 5:33 AM in reply to: #2401226 |
| Master 2460 | Subject: RE: How accurate is a gait analysis? Gait analysis in a running store IS A BUNCH OF BS. There is almost NO peer-reviewed scientific paper (at least in reputable journals) that make a convincing correlation of running gait video analysis as done in the store versus decreased injury or improved performance. Wwho does these analyses, anyway? Most likely a shoe store clerk. Not to disparage them, but honestly, what kind of training do they have? Are they medical professionals like podiatrists or orthopedists? Not even REMOTELY close. Yet they try and pass themselves of as quasi-medical specialists with their so-called knowledge on shoes and your gait. So does all their knowledge come from? MARKETING. It's ALL marketing. This assessment sounds harsh, but it is reality, and more people are becoming aware of this - there was a big article in the New York Times pointing this very fact out a few months ago, which caused a lot of stir in the running forums worlds. This came to my attention personally as I work in the medical field, and was horrified when I walked into a well regarded running store and an enthusiastic 21 year old clerk came up to me and lectured to me for nearly 20 minutes while I was browsing shoes as to how I needed to educate myself on the importance of this gait analysis and picking the right build of shoe. I kindly asked him for his knowledge source, and he handed me an advertisement for various shoes. Seriously, that was all he had - he couldn't show or name a single peer reviewed book or journal article. This kid sounded very intelligent and I admired his enthusiasm, but I know that many runners would be highly misleaded by his seemingly evidence-based conclusions. After working in the medical field for as long as I have, it struck me as more than dishonest that shoe companies were actively pushing their shoes and technology as scientific, when there is little to no data that they work as said. (Running injuries have overall INCREASED with the advent of new technologies in shoes - the cause is open to debate, but they clearly have not decreased.) I actually believed this theory so completely that tested it out and trained for 18 weeks using 3 pairs of Payless Amp sneakers which I bought at Payless for <$25 (I only stopped using them because they were discontinued!). I trained up to 70mpw during that period on the Pfitz program, had NO injuries, and ran a 40 (!) minute PR for my 3rd marathon, coming in at 3:20 and within 3 months of that, ran a 1:25 HM (10 minute PR from 1 yr prior). Trust me - it's NOT the shoes. Edited by agarose2000 2009-09-12 5:35 AM |
| 2009-09-12 9:01 AM in reply to: #2401226 |
Extreme Veteran 552 Farmington NY | Subject: RE: How accurate is a gait analysis? I purchased some new shoes at a running store at the begining of the season. They did the video and I tried a bunch of different shoes. Ended up with Brooks Trance. They thought I need additional support/control so they suggested the Superfeet insoles. Too say the least the Superfeet went back. Never really felt good in the Brooks and developed an Achilles issue. I still buy clothing and accesories at this store. Each time I'm in there someone is being fitted. They push the Superfeet. So I guess it depends on who is doing the analysis. |
| 2009-09-12 4:32 PM in reply to: #2401226 |
| Lafayette, CO | Subject: RE: How accurate is a gait analysis? I've had both good and bad experiences with in store gait analysis and think it can be helpful for some but not even close to all or even a majority. One store put me in shoes that ended up exacerbating my plantar fascitis as they were 1.5 sizes too big. I like the ones I'm currently in which, coincidentally came from Road Runner. Just a note though, Road Runner offers a 60 day, even when run in outside return policy. Take those back and get something different. |
| 2009-09-12 7:16 PM in reply to: #2401255 |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: How accurate is a gait analysis? JorgeM - 2009-09-11 2:23 PM The way as you described it IMO not very useful. Unless it is done by a sport physiologist (experienced in kinesielogy) with slow speed camera at different angles with different movements, you can't safely draw any conclusions about someone's gait. Furthermore, unless you test running economy before and after making any adjustements everything is just a guess and in many cases not very accurate. In terms of your specific post, I have become more and more over the past few years towards the thinking that less is more when it comes to running shoes. That is the less support the better. I am not sold on the whole barefoot running trend but I thik there is worth taking a look at stuff like the book born to run and some of the posts from the guys at the Science of Sports discuss something similar. But if I was you and you have been sucess runnig in a particular type/model/brand of shoe I would stick to it. good luck! X3 I had a gain analysis in a running store and the guy said, basically "You pronate a lot. Buy these.." When the shoes by themselves failed to solve my lower leg-injury problems, I went to a physical therapist who specialized in treating running injuries. She took about an hour, filmed me from different angles, as well as running slowly, at race pace, and, (I think this is important) she had me run for about 15 minutes at a fast pace until I started to fatigue and then recorded what happens to my form. She noted a whole series of issues--tight hip flexors, left foot turning out , pronation, etc. all of which were contributing to my problems. The gait analysis in the store wouldn't have caught any of that stuff and I wouldn't have noticed it either until it had been pointed out by a pro. |
| 2009-09-12 7:16 PM in reply to: #2401255 |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: How accurate is a gait analysis? |
| 2009-09-13 5:56 PM in reply to: #2401226 |
Expert 1123 Columbus | Subject: RE: How accurate is a gait analysis? I have not found these very useful. |
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