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2005-05-23 1:33 PM

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Subject: Nutrition question from my long ride this weekend
I am hoping some of the longer riders in here can give me a educated response to a problem that arose on my long ride on Saturday. Bear and Kim, please both feel free to contribute.

I am in training right now for a 1/2 IM distance race in mid July. I am averaging about 100 - 150 miles per week right now on my bike and that number should increase to 200+ miles per week in June. My schedule called for a 50 mile ride on Saturday -- a distance I am confortable with.

I decided to try something a little new with my nutrition on this ride. Normally, anything under 30 miles I drink straight water and suck a little gel for nutrition. On longer rides, I will take a couple of nutrition bottles and one water bottle with me. I will skip the gels on longer rides as I am getting all I need from my bottles.

I took a couple of Enduralytes about 30 minutes before my ride. I made two nutrition bottles with a mix of Cytomax, Gu20 and Gatoraide (I don't know why, but that is the mixture that feels good to my tongue, regarless of how strong or weak it is). Each bottle had about 480 - 500 calories in it. I also had a water bottle with me.

I thought I could absorb about 500 calories per hour, so the plan was to drink from the nutrition bottles every ten minutes and the water bottle on each half-hour.

About 90 minutes into my ride, my stomach just felt heavy. I could tell I wasn't processing my fuel. I kept my HR primarily in zone 2, but I did have to really push it on the hills as I was riding through some mountains. So, I don't think my HR was inhibiting my ability to absorb the calories. I din't get that tired aside from what is normal for me on a tough ride. I felt tired but okay after the ride.

So I stopped at a tiny convenience store on the rural road and bought a couple of bottles of water and took a couple more Enduralytes. I had one nutrition bottle left, so I poured half of it into the empty bottle and dilutted both with the water I bought. I got back on my bike and took off.

I then started on the same timing of drinking except I switched to just water until my bottle was empty. Within 30 minutes, my stomach quit feeling heavy and I switched to the nutrition bottles and I was fine until the end of my ride.

So these are my questions (I hope I gave you enough information to answer them):

1. Did I go too rich on the nutrition bottles? From what I have told you, did I try to get too many calories into me too quickly?
2. Did I do the right thing to clear out my stomach? I thought it through as i was riding and that just seemed like the most logical thing to do at the time.
3. Should I dial it down to about 400 calories per hour? I want to stay liquid on the bike, but should I try something small like Powerbites?
4. Do you think the Enduralytes helped or hurt? It was a warm day and I know my sweat rate was up. But with all the sodium and potassium in Cytomax, Gu20 and Gatoraide, were they really necessary?

Let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Mike



Edited by Rollin' Thunder 2005-05-23 1:39 PM


2005-05-24 9:23 AM
in reply to: #161887

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Subject: RE: Nutrition question from my long ride this weekend
Too many calories per hour. Depending on your weight, you would likely have done better at 250 to 350 calories per hour. Liquid nutrition should be just fine. It just sounds like you tried to intake too much fuel too quickly. Enduralytes were probably helpful, but you would really only know if you tried another hot ride without them and experienced some discomfort as a result. Better to take them and not have problems on hot days than to try and go without.

Oh yeah, probably a smart move to move to just water and then less calories later in the ride.
2005-05-24 9:53 AM
in reply to: #161887

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Subject: RE: Nutrition question from my long ride this weekend

I'm by no means a nutrition expert, but I agree that may be too many calories, everything I've read stays around that 250-300 number.

My long rides, I fill my Camelback with slightly diluted Gatorade and sip on that constantly. I eat a Cliff bar every hour-and-a-half or so to put something solid in my stomach and then maybe to a gel (with plain water) on the forty-five minutes in between. Works out to where I'm ingesting something every 14-15 miles or so.

2005-05-24 9:53 AM
in reply to: #161887

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Subject: RE: Nutrition question from my long ride this weekend
I'd concur with the too many calories. Your own experience from the ride backs that up, since you state it got better when you diluted the mix.

I'd be careful about mixing that many different products together. I had a bad experience when I mixed a couple different products a few weeks back. Bad juju there, imho. But if it works for you, then go for it.

My "recipe" at the moment, which seems to be working well, is to take in about 200 cals/hour on my long training rides(>3:00), starting at about the 1:00 1:30 mark. I'm using perpetuem from hammer as my fuel source. I also take in about 24 oz of water and 2 or so e-caps per hour to stay hydrated.

You probably burn about 600 calories / hour on the bike, so trying to take in 500 is way too much. Remember, for long distances you are in zone1/2 and you're burning fat for fuel, so you don't need 500 cals of carbs in your stomach / hour.

-Chris
2005-05-24 10:26 AM
in reply to: #161887

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Subject: RE: Nutrition question from my long ride this weekend

Rollin' Thunder - 2005-05-23 11:33 AM 1. Did I go too rich on the nutrition bottles? From what I have told you, did I try to get too many calories into me too quickly?

Absolutely.  Point of reference:  I am 6-5, 200.  On my long rides, my usual protocal is 6 gels, 1 banana per 2 hours, plus Gatorade Endurance and water.  I get maybe 400 cal/hour, and that is plenty.  The bigger the dude, the greater the need/ability to absorb calories.

2. Did I do the right thing to clear out my stomach? I thought it through as i was riding and that just seemed like the most logical thing to do at the time.

That's the good news.  When you feel bloated, and you catch it quickly enough, you can back off on the eating and let your body reset, so long as your intensity level is not too high.

 

3. Should I dial it down to about 400 calories per hour? I want to stay liquid on the bike, but should I try something small like Powerbites?

My opinion on solid fuel while exercising is to skip it.  You're already asking your body to do enough, asking it to break food into liquid first is just an extra unnecessary step.  Bananas are as "solid" as I get.

4. Do you think the Enduralytes helped or hurt? It was a warm day and I know my sweat rate was up. But with all the sodium and potassium in Cytomax, Gu20 and Gatoraide, were they really necessary? Let me know what you think. Thanks, Mike

I have been trying to find an answer to salt/sodium need for a while.  Short of taking a test tube of your sweat and analyzing it, I don't know how you can find out the salt content of your sweat.  But, I know that the only times that I have felt crappy during a workout where when I ran out of G-E or gels.  So that leads me to conclude that I am doing the right thing wrt hydration/sodium/salt.

2005-05-24 12:40 PM
in reply to: #161887

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Subject: You guys are great!
I wanted feedback from the people that have experience on the issue and the right people showed up and represented.

I am going to dial it down to about 300 calories per hour on my rides >3:00. That ride took me almost 3:00, but it was still under. I am going to try my new strategy out this weekend on a couple of long rides. I will let you guys know how your advice works out!

Mike


2005-05-24 1:11 PM
in reply to: #161887

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Subject: RE: Nutrition question from my long ride this weekend
I'm in agreement with the other writers here - 250-300 calories per hour is about all you can absorb. We will burn more in heavy racing/training, but it is mpossible to replace them as fast as we burn them. That being said, I use a a plan very similar to yours for a 3-hour ride - two bottles (one per hour) of Perpetuem (Hammer Nutrition), and a bottle of water with Hamme Gel for the last hour. I will also take Endurolytes before and during the ride. I have NEVER had any stomach/cramping issues with Hammer products. They are formulated to work together. On the other hand, I always had stomach issues when I mixed Gatorade with GU. I have chosen to steer clear of creating my own nutritional cocktails and have been using Hammer products exclusively with very gratifying results. You don't have to use Hammer, of course, but I would strongly suggest finding an all-inclusive program of products that have been thoroughly tested and formulated to work together. Good luck! 
2005-05-24 1:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Nutrition question from my long ride this weekend

triman50 - 2005-05-24 11:11 AM ...On the other hand, I always had stomach issues when I mixed Gatorade with GU. ... 

That's exactly what I do, and also it's worth noting that the IMNA races provide Gatorade (or Gatorade Endurance) and Gu to the racers.

2005-05-24 5:26 PM
in reply to: #161887

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Subject: RE: Nutrition question from my long ride this weekend
I too concur wiht all the other statements about the fact that you took in to many calories. Sometimes on training rides I'll forget to monitor how much I'm drinking and drink to much to fast. this leads to the problems you had but once I slowed down i got better. On my long rides I'll usually be drinking cytomax w/ a tad bit more iodized salt. Htat and every hour, hour and a half I'll eat a cliff bar. Works great for me.
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