General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Is 220-age accurate for MHR? Rss Feed  
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2005-05-25 7:19 AM

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Pro
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Subject: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?
It has finally gotten through my thick head that training with a HRM is a much smarter way to train. I have been reading some books and articles and need some advice. Is the 220-age an accurate way to determine MHR. I have also read 205-1/2 age. Doing it the first way would get me a 180 MHR, the other way 185. I have also read that doing a fitness test on a treadmill is the way to go. HELP!!

Thanks,
Marcy


2005-05-25 7:35 AM
in reply to: #162980

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?

Short answer...no.

Longer answer...the best method to establish your training zones is a clinical AT/LT test but that costs a few $100 and you need to find someplace to do it.  The next best option is to go out and test your HR max for both running and biking and then dig through the multitude of sometimes conflicting information to figure out exactly how you should set your zone limits...or just read a few threads because I went through all this back in the winter

http://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=18173

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=12470

2005-05-25 7:39 AM
in reply to: #162980

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Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?

220-age is usually a reasonable guesstimate.  But individuals can vary widely from this formula. 

The test for yourself could be done on a treadmill or a hill.  Basically after warming up, you push yourself harder & harder 'til you can't go anymore.  See where your HR hit.

Sounds like fun, huh?  It is probably best to go with the formula to start if you don't have the base to try such a test.

Eventually you may want to try to estimate your lactate threshold HR which is a better metric to use to establish your traiing zones.  One way to do this is a time trial of 30-60 minutes (could use a 10k) and use your average HR as your LTHR (some say to take the average after the first 10 minutes).

2005-05-25 7:43 AM
in reply to: #162984

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Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?
TH3_FRB - 2005-05-25 7:35 AM

Short answer...no.

+1

You can also determine your training zones using the triathlete training bible



Edited by amiine 2005-05-25 7:43 AM
2005-05-25 7:49 AM
in reply to: #162980

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Queen BTich
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Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?
I just got mine tested professionally last week. I was doubtful about the impact/necessity but I was wrong. My coach has already started me on zone training and it makes a difference. Percieved effort v. actual HR is very different.

To answer the direct queston: 220-age is not my max HR. And 205-1/2age is further away for me.

I highly suggest the test.
2005-05-25 7:53 AM
in reply to: #162980

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Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?
I am definitely not a pro, but I have asked quite a few questions on the topic. There are quite a few formulas to estimate your MHR:
220-age
206.3-(0.711*age)
217-(0.85*age)

These are some of them.

The best way to get your MHR is to do it on the treadmill for your running MHR (see one of the following articles for the way to do it right). I haven't done it yet. At the stage I am, I am not fine tuning a sports car. I am still building a solid base. At this stage, using one of the 3 equations is good enough for me. In the next few months, I will definitely do the treadmill thing to get a proper evaluation of my MHR. There are three articles that will give you most of the required info on the subject.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=...
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=...
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=...

Hope it helps

patrick


2005-05-25 8:39 AM
in reply to: #162980

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Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?
Early base training is the most important time to have accurate data IMHO.  You can always play it safe, but it is important to stay in Z2 early on and having accurate data on your personal physiology is the key.  You could easily bee of by 10bpm or more by using one of the formulas.
2005-05-25 8:54 AM
in reply to: #163033

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Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?
TH3_FRB - 2005-05-25 8:39 AM

Early base training is the most important time to have accurate data IMHO.


I didn't realize that. I usually stay in top of Z2 and bottom of Z3. What are the risks of being off. Risk of injuries? In my case, I have been building my base for about 3 months using the formulas and it seems to have worked pretty well. Maybe I am just lucky and the formulas are a good estimate in my case.

Maybe I will look into measuring my MHR sooner than expected.

Should I measure my run MHR properly and then take 10 beats off for bike MHR? Is this also just an estimate?

Apologies, I do not want to hijack the thread. I guess this info is really useful for other beginners.
2005-05-25 12:03 PM
in reply to: #162980

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2005-05-25 12:16 PM
in reply to: #163050

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Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?

Not so much injury unless yo push too hard too soon.  It's more a matter of being patient while your body builkds the ability to efficiently ustilize fatty acids for fuel, builds mitochondria, builds capilary density...all benefits of training in and below Z2.  Going above Z2 on a regular basis before you've built that base can sobotage your efforts.  I've got some articles around somewhere that explain the technical aspects but basically during early season base work it's very important to stay in the proper zone for best results.

You'd be better off actually testing your HR max on the bike also...same basic concept as the run test although finding a place to do it is a little more difficult unless you have a trainer...or a velodrome handy

p4406 - 2005-05-25 8:54 AM
TH3_FRB - 2005-05-25 8:39 AM Early base training is the most important time to have accurate data IMHO.
I didn't realize that. I usually stay in top of Z2 and bottom of Z3. What are the risks of being off. Risk of injuries? In my case, I have been building my base for about 3 months using the formulas and it seems to have worked pretty well. Maybe I am just lucky and the formulas are a good estimate in my case. Maybe I will look into measuring my MHR sooner than expected. Should I measure my run MHR properly and then take 10 beats off for bike MHR? Is this also just an estimate? Apologies, I do not want to hijack the thread. I guess this info is really useful for other beginners.

2005-05-25 12:57 PM
in reply to: #163239

Elite
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Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?
Joel,
Don't mean to be facetious, but seems odd that you can be this knowledgeable about HRM's while on another thread admit that you're a smoker (albeit you don't consider yourself one, that I find odd too. i would say anyone that lights up, by definition, is a smoker). The contradiction is just very striking to me in that HRM's are meant to maximize your workout benefit while smoking is well, deadly. Again, don't mean to be confrontational just baffles me to the point I felt i had to write something. Maybe, if your so inclined, this will be the impetus to giving up one or the other (o.k., there I'm being facetious)

Mark


Edited by rollinbones 2005-05-25 12:57 PM


2005-05-25 2:03 PM
in reply to: #163272

Pro
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Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?

Understandable...but be careful not to confuse my apparent conflicting lifestyle choices with a lack of knowledge on training and nutrition.  Yes, I enjoy a smoke from time to time and sure, it must have some negative impact on my health.  But I could walk away from smoking tomorrow if I wanted to.  Like I said in the other thread...it could easily be weeks since my last smoke and the thought wouldn't even cross my mind.  Fact is I enjoy a smoke just like some people enjoy a beer when they get home from work.  I personally drink very little...even when I'm out at a bar or party.  Everyone has those things that they take pleasure in for whatever reason and chances are that whatever it is could be bad for your health overall.  I tend to believe that most anything is fine in moderation (within limits of course).  So while I understand how my dirty little habit might make you question my advice, please look over my training log and my diet journal and decide for yourself if I know what I'm talking about.  I'm not claiming to be the best triathlete around or trying to brag about my abilities but I think you'll see that I am a serious triathlete that has taken the time to research and learn what I can about training and nutrition and I enjoy passing that info along to others if it can help them improve.

Back to HRM training, this is my first season ever using a HRM but I can tell you it certainly works as advertised.

rollinbones - 2005-05-25 12:57 PM Joel, Don't mean to be facetious, but seems odd that you can be this knowledgeable about HRM's while on another thread admit that you're a smoker (albeit you don't consider yourself one, that I find odd too. i would say anyone that lights up, by definition, is a smoker). The contradiction is just very striking to me in that HRM's are meant to maximize your workout benefit while smoking is well, deadly. Again, don't mean to be confrontational just baffles me to the point I felt i had to write something. Maybe, if your so inclined, this will be the impetus to giving up one or the other (o.k., there I'm being facetious) Mark

2005-05-25 2:06 PM
in reply to: #162980

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Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?
The Chris Charmichael book 'food For Fitness' has an excellent field test for cycling and running and then some information on how to set your training zones. It is also a very good book on training and nutrition for athletes.
You may also want to look at your Heart Rate Reserve as determined using the Karvonen formula. Some people find this more beneficial for determining heart rate zones.
2005-05-25 2:35 PM
in reply to: #163325

Elite
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New City, New York
Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?
That's just it Joel, I don't question your knowledge, in fact I appreciate your insight on most topics, probably why i was dismayed to learn of your other habit. But hey, to each his own. Truth be told i've got a few vices of my own (would the dice be any indication?)

I'm w/ ya, back to the HRM's... guess I've never considered myself serious enough about this traing stuff to think I'd really benefit from one. But ,thanks in part to your advice, I may now.

Thanks and I appreciate your candor,
Mark

2005-05-25 6:32 PM
in reply to: #162980

Elite
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Chicago
Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?

Here is a quote from Dr. Maffetone regarding the 220-age formula:

"This old formula contains two errors.  It assumes that 220 minus your age is your maximum heart rate.  In reality, most athletes who obtain their maximum heart rate by pushing themselves to exhaustion will find it is probabaly not 220 minus their age.  About 1/3 find their max to be above, a third will be below, and only 1/3 may be close to 200-their age."

I won't go onto quote the other error he talks about as it is not relevent to the discussion at hand I don't think.

2005-05-25 8:09 PM
in reply to: #162980

Elite
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Racine, WI
Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?

Does anyone know how to determine thier zones based on VO2 max?  I got mine clinically tested as a freebie but have yet to figure out how to use it.



2005-05-25 9:27 PM
in reply to: #162980

Elite Veteran
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Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?
If I may offer a testimonial to HR training, i spent a lot of this winter running in my Z2 range. Very little speedwork. I spent last summer throwing down 27:30 in stand-alone 5Ks. In Oct (HR aware) I ran a 5K in 25:51 in very humid conditions. This spring my 5K time has significantly improved; Sunday I ran 3 miles at a 7:34 pace following the swim and bike. This stuff works. Stick with it.
2005-05-25 9:59 PM
in reply to: #163527

Elite
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Chicago
Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?
CindyK - 2005-05-25 7:09 PM

Does anyone know how to determine thier zones based on VO2 max?  I got mine clinically tested as a freebie but have yet to figure out how to use it.

Isn't that test just a "blow a gasket" test?!  Man, I didn't think I ever pushed that hard before, not even a dead sprint at the end of a 5k...well ok...maybe then. 

That's great!  Now you can get your HR zones right on the money.  I'll ask my coach how he interpreted my data to determine my HR zones from my V02 max data and get back to you.

Let me know:

  1. your V02max
  2. what percentage of V02 max your LT was
  3. what your HR was at your LT

you can just PM me the info if you like.



Edited by Steve- 2005-05-25 9:59 PM
2005-05-30 3:45 PM
in reply to: #162980

Extreme Veteran
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Denham Springs
Subject: RE: Is 220-age accurate for MHR?
So if I wanted to get my HRM working close to perfectly I need to be tested..... My next question is who tests this kind of stuff and what do I tell them I want tested?

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General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Is 220-age accurate for MHR? Rss Feed