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2009-10-13 12:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Need to get to Boston, need help
bryancd - 2009-10-13 11:52 AM
lisac957 - 2009-10-12 3:18 PM You did not ask me either but in consulting a coach for my own IMWI 2010 training plan, I was heavily advised to NOT do a marathon in the off season. I also had a February marathon planned, but have nixed it due to that advice. For me, the long rides and long runs for IM training will be enough for me before IMWI without adding the stress (on my body and mind) of a stand alone marathon and the recovery following. Your results may vary.

 
Uh, now that I don't agree with. I am not aware of your partuicular situation, so this advice for you might be spot on, but in general, training for a very early season marathon can do wonders for your IM run, especially if they are almost 6 months apart. Having a run focused training block over the winter leading into a late winter marathon, when your IM is later in the summer, can pay HUGE dividends.


Yeah, it's based on some individual factors.
I have not taken a break or "off season" in 12 months. My mind and body needs it. If I were to do the February marathon I would start training the day after (OK, week after) my last 70.3 on Oct. 25. That would mean zero off season (again), and having to overlap the end of marathon training with 70.3 training (again), and getting zero break until IMWI 2010. She felt I could really benefit from strength training this winter, which would give my mind and body a rest for a few months before launching into 7 months of IM training. My risk for burnout is pretty high considering my nonstop history in training, and she thought that plus the risk for injury (again) during marathon training wasn't worth the risk.
 




2009-10-13 12:35 PM
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2009-10-13 1:18 PM
in reply to: #2455460

Fishers, IN
Subject: RE: Need to get to Boston, need help

Without a doubt a marathon run to the best of your ability will take something out of you.  It will also compromise your training in other dimensions.  First, the taper costs your running volume and the recovery further costs you.  A couple of years ago I was able to have enough discipline to hold back and just go hard enough to drop below 3:10 so I could later do Boston with a friend who had qualified for a first time after many attempts.  I did not wish to take too much time out of my training longer term.  I did this and recovered quickly (though my true objective was to BQ with a 3:20), my point being it is very hard to hold back.  I think you can do a marathon with a 90%, perhaps even 95%, effort and minimize the taper and the recovery.  It is the push to the limit that gets you.  A marathon run to its limit will without a doubt cost your overall training by a month to one and a half months.  If your IM is six months out it may not be a big deal.  I would not do it within the last two to three months.  I do not think it is possible without compromising your IM results.

2009-10-13 1:21 PM
in reply to: #2455460

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Subject: RE: Need to get to Boston, need help

moabrunner - 2009-10-12 1:36 PM I have placed a goal on qualifying for Boston at next years Chicago Marathon and am wondering about what it will take to do it. My fastest time is 3:44 and I need to be at 3:10. So I have some work ahead of me. For those of you that have qualified what plan did you follow and how much running where you doing?
What would you say you did right or wrong with your previous attempts before we get into how to pull it off?

2009-10-13 1:42 PM
in reply to: #2455765

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Subject: RE: Need to get to Boston, need help

bryancd - 2009-10-12 3:56 PM Well, my coach added some extra long runs for me in December of 2006 to bring up my run milegae for PF Changs, but we never stopped Ironman training. The issue with running a marathon within a few months of an IM is simply a question of recovery cost. If running a marathon requires a prolonged period of recovery, than you are sacraficing some important IM training to do the race. If you recover quickly, then it can have some real benefits as you can absorb the extra run training load, race the race and derive that benefit, and then get back at it quickly. So is 3 months too close? For me, no it wasn't, but you all need to really consider what it will take out of you before doing it. If you have a doubt, I would say don't do it.
Just to add, in general, racing a marathon vs running it is two different things.  Recovery is an individual thing, but you can expect a longer time to recovery if you are trying to hammer the mary vs covering the distance.  Might be a 'well duh', but for the folks that are being told not to do a mary in an IM year, assess what your recovery is like and maybe set your goals for an early season mary based on that.  I decided to race Boston last April with MOO in September.  My training went great for most of the summer but think I lost some of the edge mentally and paid for it race day.  Keep event spacing in mind from a burnout standpoint too.  As far as my plan for first BQ, shaved off 25 mins with Cool Running intermediate mary plan- more frequency than I had been using and long longs at a reasonable pace.  Jumped up a level for Boston and will probably play with the next level this winter.  I threw the bike and swim under the bus for the most part and didnt have major issues getting em back by MOO.

2009-10-23 12:32 PM
in reply to: #2455460

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Subject: RE: Need to get to Boston, need help
Pfitz-Douglas 55/18 worked for me.  And I do not come from a running background.  My three marathons have been dramatically different 

Umstead Trail Marathon, Raleigh NC, March 2008: 3:55:22-run on some cobbled up Runners World internet plan.  Had never run one before, so had no idea what to expect.  Hit the wall at about 18 miles, on some long uphills in the park

City of Oaks Marathon, Raleigh NC, November 2008: 3:26:22-run using the same Runners World plan from Umstead.  Hit the wall at mile 22 or so, just couldn't get up and go any more.

Shamrock Marathon, Va. Beach VA, March 2009: 3:13:43-P-D 55/18, BQ by 0:02:16.  Started slowing down at mile 19 a little, but controlled.  The race was mine by then. 



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