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2009-11-09 11:29 AM

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Expert
1158
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A Husker stuck in VA
Subject: Upset with Public School System
So, after asking 3 different teachers over 3 years about my 8yo's reading problems, we finally took her and had her tested.  Over the past three years these teachers have all said she was having "normal 1st/2nd/3rd grade" problems and not much to be worried about.  She was enrolled in the public Title 1 reading program and never pushed farther.  We had her tested on our own 3 weeks ago and were told she has a learning disorder (also known in her case as dyslexia) and needs specialized tutoring or schooling.  We went to the school with the info and they said thanks, we will put her name on the list to review next Monday.  Well, it's Monday.  The board today was just for them to bring up her name.  Now they will review her class records, talk to her teacher, and look over the test results (normally they would vote to have her tested or not at this point) and then convene NEXT MONTH to decide if she should be in a special ed class for reading! 
We are not willing to wait any longer for the school to do anything so we are looking into paying a tutor out of pocket.  Expensive, yes, however, I will go bankrupt if I must to ensure my children are afforded every option available to succeed.
It just pi$$es me off that we thought we saw a problem years ago and it has been put off until now.  She is in 3rd grade and tested at a middle to high 1st grade reading level.  I don't blame the school or teachers for the problem, I blame them for not bringing the problem to light for resolution.

Sorry, I don't rant on here often, but I needed to vent somewhere other than in my wifes ear.


2009-11-09 2:50 PM
in reply to: #2504796

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Pro
4206
20002000100100
Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
You might want to talk to some local attorneys on a free consultation to make sure the school/district is following protocol, doing everything they are suppose to be doing, for your child's needs.

I usually don't recommend this since it can be costly and most of these types of issues don't need one. You bring your attorney, the district brings theres and it just escalates, when normally, you guys could have reached an agreement.

However, given the fact that it's been 3 years and the longer you wait, probably the worse for your kid, you probably need to take more aggressive means.

Anyways, you were going to pay for a tutor anyways, so, it's not like you don't have the cash.

2009-11-09 3:13 PM
in reply to: #2504796

Iron Donkey
38643
50005000500050005000500050002000100050010025
, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System

I'm sorry to hear about this, NavyTRIChief.  My eldest son (going to be 13) has some reading comprehension development issues - he's a "visual" learner, and it's a little more trying for him to comprehend things verbally than compared to other kids his age.  He does work his butt off, though, and gets very good grades.  My wife, who is not a teacher/educator, noticed early on that he was not "grasping" things (grade 4?), and pushed very hard for him to receive additional assistance, or at least have him work with a "specialist" in our school system.  The class that he's been attending is called "Read 180", and it helped him much with the understanding of sentence structure, etc.  He has improved quite a bit and will be getting out of the class now after 2 years or so (during each grade level the skills advanced, too).

It's good that you and your wife caught this and are pushing on it.  That's what my wife did, and I hope you get the answers and assistance needed.

Good luck!

2009-11-09 3:14 PM
in reply to: #2504796

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Extreme Veteran
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Milford, MI
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
Chief - you might also want to go talk to the district supervisor.   From my experience with a couple of different school districts as well as stories from my mom who is a retired grade school teacher, the school administrators listen pretty carefully to the parents.....however, I don't think its just because they're being magnanimous, they're  basically afraid of lawsuits.  But quite frankly if that's the motivation it takes to get them to listen, then so be it.  We had some issues several years ago when we first moved into this district and after not getting any resolution from the school principal, we made an appt with the district supervisor and were happy with the resolution.

Kudos to you for being involved in your daughter's education and getting her tested on your own.  I do understand the frustration, though.  Can't tell you the number of times we've been in conferences when we've found out there was a problem...at which point I always ask why they're waiting till a conference to let us know.
2009-11-09 3:31 PM
in reply to: #2504796

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System

I would say keep pushing and pushing until they get it done. Be a (polite) nuisance if you have to. My wife is a special ed teacher so I kind of hear it from the other side or the story a lot and I know that, at least in the district my wife works in, there are a lot of restrictions on what the disctricts will allow a teacher to do in order to get a kid into help. A lot of it, I believe, comes from the disctrict being afraid of being sued/getting in trouble with parents for telling them that "their little angel is not perfect and needs extra help" so they kind of have a standing order that until it is escalated to a certain point by the parents the teachers are not supposed to do much. Again this is just roughly from my wifes point of view that I hear it and it is stupid and sucks for the students who do truly need help.

2009-11-09 3:49 PM
in reply to: #2504796

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Expert
1456
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Central New Jersey
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
I am so sorry to welcome you to the club of "parents who have to fight for their childs rights" it is not any fun. You need to check your state and school districts policies regarding IEP (Individual Education Plan) and 504 rights. I would start with the state department of education. It will tell you the policy and procedure to put in place to request an evaluation by the child study team. They have to respond within so many days.


2009-11-09 3:58 PM
in reply to: #2504796

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Extreme Veteran
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Barrington, IL
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
It really bothers me when teachers refuse to give you any detail about how the kids are doing except "they are doing the best for there abilities".

My son is thankfully smart at 9 and gets very bored at school - they have an accelerated program but they don't test everyone - just the ones they deem to warrant it.

I have heard stories like yours all over the place and it disgusts me. Whenever you have the public run something it is not as good as the private sector running it.

Just wait till things like this happen with healthcare.
2009-11-09 8:08 PM
in reply to: #2504796

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Master
2006
2000
Portland, ME
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System

It is great for your daughter that she has such great parents. Make sure you know your rights for your daughter's education and be prepared to fight for them often.

2009-11-09 8:15 PM
in reply to: #2504796

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Pro
4909
20002000500100100100100
Hailey, ID
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
One of my very good clients has a daughter who just graduated high school and is now in college. We have talked about her education and it surprised me. She is very dyslexic, and the school sucked and was very unhelpful.

I was very surprised in this day and age that school still don't understand what dyslexia is. This customer of my is VERY affluent. They have all the $$$ resources and are actually very very good parents. Despite all of that, the school (The best school district in all of Idaho and top 50 in the nation) still wasn't helpful. They did all the testing and help on their own.

They have very recently found a program that has helped a TON. Tinted glasses. You get tested for color overlays on books and it helps I guess. They have now purchased her glasses with that tint and the change was immense. She went from struggling with reading a small book to reading novels for fun. She is now doing very well in college and isn't considered lazy by the teachers. She is very smart, but really hard when you can't read.

I'll talk to her tomorrow and link the program they had great success with.

Brad

PM me if you have other questions.
2009-11-09 8:25 PM
in reply to: #2504796

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Master
2477
2000100100100100252525
Oceanside, California
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
Read this and this.

Find out the district special education director, and communicate in writing so as to leave a paper trail.

2009-11-09 8:30 PM
in reply to: #2504796

Subject: ...
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2009-11-09 8:31 PM
in reply to: #2504796

Pro
4313
20002000100100100
McKinney, TX
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
My mom is a dyslexic teacher (the only one in her school district).....and she has already "tested" my daughter, niece, and neighbor. She said that the neighbor is showing tendencies and should be tested further by the school district. The parents, like you, had suspected something was not right and approached the teachers who gave, basically, the same answers you got.

As a 35 year school administrator she told them to keep asking and asking and asking until something is done. She used the old adage "the wheel that squeeks the loudest". The principal and other administrators will get tired of seeing you. I wouldn't recommend the attorney thing at this juncture but might be nice to keep in your back pocket, especailly if you can get something resolved with out the threats.

On a lighter note......remember that dyslexics are teople poo (my mom uses that....probably not the most appropriate thing right now though)

Hope everything works out for y'all




2009-11-09 8:37 PM
in reply to: #2504796

Master
2477
2000100100100100252525
Oceanside, California
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
To take it even further, it may not be the district, but the individuals in the district that you have spoken to... if you have the site school psychologist and district special education director and follow-up each conversation with a paper trail, this will tell you if they get their act together or otherwise.

In my position, I may not give parents what they want, but I can give them a rational explanation as to what we are doing and why.

However, in a 25,000 student district, they can talk to a lot of weak links before they get to me.

Understand in the last few years and depending on the state, the Response-to-Intervention portion of IDEA may require two rounds of progressive interventions that fail to yield a positive response before assessment can be considered.

I don't know RI's take on RTI, but, if that is their law, there is no short-cut.

2009-11-10 1:42 AM
in reply to: #2505933

Master
1903
1000500100100100100
Portland, Oregon
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
AcesFull - 2009-11-09 6:30 PM

Finally, about the issue of "Public" schools vs. "Private" schools.  I don't think anyone has suggested switching to private yet, but its important to be aware of the weaknesses of private schools, one of which is in helping special needs kids.  Private schools do not have the same mandates (in general) that public schools do to provide help for children with LD or other special needs. 



This is an important point. A friend enrolled his kid in an expensive private school hoping to get more focused attention for the kid. That lasted about a week. Expensive Private School showed him and his kid the door because they didn't want to work with the kid's learning disabilities. I'd imagine it gets pretty easy to churn out successful students if you get to cherry pick and boot out any student that needs extra help or has problems.

2009-11-10 7:06 AM
in reply to: #2504796

Expert
715
500100100
PA
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
homeschool all the way baby!!!!!
2009-11-10 7:14 AM
in reply to: #2505933

Master
2477
2000100100100100252525
Oceanside, California
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
AcesFull - 2009-11-09 6:30 PM

Don't fight or be afraid of "labeling."  Without attaching a specific label, children are not eligible for special services.  When we moved to MN, which we did primarily because the school system where we lived sucked, my then 6 year-old was struggling and far behind in all her classes.  The school gave her two labels, one of which was completely incorrect, but the second one allowed for a few additional services we felt she could benefit from, so we let it stand. 

 



Actually, IDEA is very specific that, once a child qualifies, the IEP MUST address all of the student's unique needs, whether it matches the label or not.
Once you are in the club doors, the label should not matter.

This provision, although necessary when used properly, kills us in California.
The parent of every gangbanger who qualified for a learning disability tries to use that provision to block us from disciplining their gang activities.
We always prevail, but not without exhausting resources that should have been spent on helping kids that deserved it.

In fact, RI's neighbor Massachusetts did not even require labeling on the IEP when I interned there in '99.



2009-11-10 9:48 AM
in reply to: #2504796

Elite
3770
200010005001001002525
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System

Most school systems aren't allowed to offer any services unless a child is 3 years below grade level.  The school system is understaffed and thats why it is that way....that is why I'd end up bringing up 10 children every year in 4th grade since that is when the most issues would finally show up.  I think most teachers realize that its a losing battle b/c at the meetings (we called ours EMT meetings) nothing would happen.  They would say, wait a year and see if they are any worse....

For children that are a year or two the parents would be encouraged to get their own testing.  Sad, b/c it is so expensive to do privately.

Its mainly a function of the system, NOT the teachers.

2009-11-10 9:49 AM
in reply to: #2506134

Elite
3770
200010005001001002525
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System

ell-in-or - 2009-11-10 1:42 AM
AcesFull - 2009-11-09 6:30 PM

Finally, about the issue of "Public" schools vs. "Private" schools.  I don't think anyone has suggested switching to private yet, but its important to be aware of the weaknesses of private schools, one of which is in helping special needs kids.  Private schools do not have the same mandates (in general) that public schools do to provide help for children with LD or other special needs. 



This is an important point. A friend enrolled his kid in an expensive private school hoping to get more focused attention for the kid. That lasted about a week. Expensive Private School showed him and his kid the door because they didn't want to work with the kid's learning disabilities. I'd imagine it gets pretty easy to churn out successful students if you get to cherry pick and boot out any student that needs extra help or has problems.

 

This as a private school teacher I take umbrage with. I've taught in both and this is clearly not the case.  It is one example. Carry on.

2009-11-10 10:05 AM
in reply to: #2505514

Alpharetta, Georgia
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
wwlani - 2009-11-09 3:49 PM I am so sorry to welcome you to the club of "parents who have to fight for their childs rights" it is not any fun. You need to check your state and school districts policies regarding IEP (Individual Education Plan) and 504 rights. I would start with the state department of education. It will tell you the policy and procedure to put in place to request an evaluation by the child study team. They have to respond within so many days.


x2. My sister is going through all kinds of stuff with lawyers and 504 plans with her son. It is not pretty and not fun, but it needs to be done. She is working with an advocacy group for her child's specific needs, she says they have helped a TON - even went to the meetings with her to talk to school administrators. Maybe you can find an advocate in your area.

Good luck.
2009-11-10 10:22 AM
in reply to: #2505538

Champion
34263
500050005000500050005000200020001001002525
Chicago
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
Magnum27 - 2009-11-09 3:58 PM

I have heard stories like yours all over the place and it disgusts me. Whenever you have the public run something it is not as good as the private sector running it.

Just wait till things like this happen with healthcare.


Not everybody has the means to pay for a private school.

Us dumm pubicly edjukationed peeple jist half to suffer throo life I reckon wile we serve koffee and bergers to the privit skool fokes.

2009-11-10 10:24 AM
in reply to: #2506603

Master
2477
2000100100100100252525
Oceanside, California
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
lisac957 - 2009-11-10 8:05 AM
wwlani - 2009-11-09 3:49 PM I am so sorry to welcome you to the club of "parents who have to fight for their childs rights" it is not any fun. You need to check your state and school districts policies regarding IEP (Individual Education Plan) and 504 rights. I would start with the state department of education. It will tell you the policy and procedure to put in place to request an evaluation by the child study team. They have to respond within so many days.


x2. My sister is going through all kinds of stuff with lawyers and 504 plans with her son. It is not pretty and not fun, but it needs to be done. She is working with an advocacy group for her child's specific needs, she says they have helped a TON - even went to the meetings with her to talk to school administrators. Maybe you can find an advocate in your area.

Good luck.


Please buyer beware with advocates.
My experience is that there are not a lot of "average" advocates.
Some are very good, but some do more harm than good.
Case in point, in CA, there are pages of state regulations dictating who can legally do pedi- or mani-cures.
However, anyone can call themselves an advocate.

My advice in choosing an advocate:

If you interview them, and they only talk about...

A - Their personal bad experiences with districts.
B - Their understanding of procedures and how to fight/complain without showing deep insight on education and/or your child's disability...
C - They tell you that you are 100% right and do not concede any valid points for the school... STAY AWAY.
They will just fight for the sake of fighting (usually due to their own pent up anger at districts) and not necessarily help you.

On the other hand, if they ask you insightful questions about your unique situation.
They show deep understanding about education and disabilities - not just how to complain.
They differentiate between the district's valid points and where they are in the wrong...
THEN YOU MAY HAVE A KEEPER.


No advocate can replace an informed parent.
A good advocate comes in handy when you need a third-party to help think with the head while you react with your heart.


2009-11-10 10:31 AM
in reply to: #2506650

Master
2477
2000100100100100252525
Oceanside, California
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
mr2tony - 2009-11-10 8:22 AM
Magnum27 - 2009-11-09 3:58 PM I have heard stories like yours all over the place and it disgusts me. Whenever you have the public run something it is not as good as the private sector running it.

Just wait till things like this happen with healthcare.
Not everybody has the means to pay for a private school. Us dumm pubicly edjukationed peeple jist half to suffer throo life I reckon wile we serve koffee and bergers to the privit skool fokes.


My public school was able to get a dozen kids out of a class of 120 accepted into Ivy League schools.

Including "a friend" with a 504 for very severe ADHD (5-7 Standard deviation difference between baseline and attention).



There are probably over 100,000 public schools and 35,000 to 40,000 Private schools??? Roughly in the U.S.

It makes it kind of hard to stereotype.

2009-11-10 11:17 AM
in reply to: #2506666

Champion
34263
500050005000500050005000200020001001002525
Chicago
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
eabeam - 2009-11-10 10:31 AM

mr2tony - 2009-11-10 8:22 AM
Magnum27 - 2009-11-09 3:58 PM I have heard stories like yours all over the place and it disgusts me. Whenever you have the public run something it is not as good as the private sector running it.

Just wait till things like this happen with healthcare.
Not everybody has the means to pay for a private school. Us dumm pubicly edjukationed peeple jist half to suffer throo life I reckon wile we serve koffee and bergers to the privit skool fokes.


My public school was able to get a dozen kids out of a class of 120 accepted into Ivy League schools.

Including "a friend" with a 504 for very severe ADHD (5-7 Standard deviation difference between baseline and attention).



There are probably over 100,000 public schools and 35,000 to 40,000 Private schools??? Roughly in the U.S.

It makes it kind of hard to stereotype.



I don't see the correlation between my post and yours. I was simply saying that not everybody can afford public school, and mocking the notion that publicly educated people are less intelligent or less educated than privately educated people.
2009-11-10 11:26 AM
in reply to: #2504796

Master
2477
2000100100100100252525
Oceanside, California
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System
So sorry, my intent was to address the overall mood of public versus private based on anecdotal stories in the thread, not just your reply alone.

I think it is too late to edit and de-quote you.

2009-11-10 11:29 AM
in reply to: #2504796

Master
1914
1000500100100100100
Finally north of the Mason-Dixon Line
Subject: RE: Upset with Public School System

I feel your pain!  As a mother to a child with a disability who has been in the school system since age 3 for severe speech delays - he had additional problems - more then what the school acknowledged at age 3 - I have spent the last 5 years trying to get him the additional help needed - I know exactly what you are feeling and going thru.  We paid thousands of dollars for private speech therapy and psychlogists...... 

Contact the higher ups in the district to discuss your situation....   

EDUCATE yourself on the state's laws regarding IEP's and also 504 plans.   Sounds to me that if you have presented the school with a valid (meaning state certified evaluation report - yes there is a separate qualification for school vs. private) that the school is required to provide services for your child.  But it is a process (not defending them!)....  IDEA I believe grants the school 45 days to evaluate the student and develope a plan to present to you during your ARD (admission, review and dismisal) meeting.  But it may take 30 days to get the meeting for you to sign the forms that allows them to evaluate your student.

In the meantime....  I completely agree that you need to take action and get your child whatever help he/she needs regardless of the expense!!!  Do what you have to!!!  Make sure that whatever program you choose also includes a program for you to work with your child at home.  It may be a once a week session but you nee to work the session at home everyday.

You also need to work the insurance and see if they will cover the therapy.  Work thru the system and see if you can get them to cover the therapy.  Get your doctor on board and willing to write why therapy is necessary  ie prevent further costs.   Don't give up that fight with insurance - it took me a year of constant work but eventually they covered the therapy dating to when therapy first started! 

Stay strong and do what you have to for your child!

Cathleen



Edited by houston-tri-mama 2009-11-10 11:31 AM
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