IM Bike Training - Interval question

I'll let the coaches opine on this, but my coach had me do both tempo and threshold work on the bike, but only once per week.

That I can respond to. ALL training, regardless of distnace, should have variation of intenisty, including tempo/interval S/B/R work for Ironman. Yes, the majority of your training volume will be done at a steady, aerobic pace, but you should always include some higher intensity work as well.

Interesting - thanks!

Bryan - you were one of the guys I'd hope would weigh in. Thanks!

Just so I'm clear - you mean 1 interval session each week (either tempo or threshold) right? Not 1 of each for a total of 2 interval sessions.

So are the rest of your rides strictly zone 2?

Intervals at/near threshold are excellent work for IM training.  I typically do a weekday trainer ride during IM training where I do FT intervals.  I may also include some intervals during my longer weekend rides, though the bulk of those rides are typically done at ~80-85% (HIM-type effort).  As I get closer to the IM, then I will have longer segments (including a couple race rehearsal rides) +/-70%, which is ~IM effort, and my weekday trainer rides may move to ~80-85% segments as I'm now replacing intensity with volume in my training load.

For most of the IM training, what you are looking to do is build your training load.  You can do this with volume or intensity.  Which you choose depends on other training constraints (time availability, ability to recover, etc).  As you get closer to the race, then more of your riding should be race-specific.  In this context, that's long rides at steady paces.

If you want some ideas, you can check my logs for last summer (early Sept. IM) or spring/early summer in 2007 (IMLP in July).  Just be careful mixing plans.  Once you do that, you are really creating your own plan and need to consider how an individual session may impact other planned sessions (e.g., if I do FT intervals on the bike today am I going to be able to do my tempo run scheduled for tomorrow?)

Yes, one higher intensity specific session per week. I will on other rides put in some harder efforts for short periods of time, like climbing a hill, but nothing "planned".

The rest of my rides, weekly maintenance rides and long weekend rides, are all done at my planned IM race pace effort which is a blend of mid Zone 2 to low Zone 3. It's a hybrid my coach and I use for both bike and run. I am a big believer in riding a touch harder than what most plans perscribe as I respond and acclimate to it well.

I hope Jorge has a chance to jump in here, he has some great ideas on this subject....and I wish we could hear from Rick....

There are two predictors for racing success: (pace/velocity/power whatever you track) @ Lactate Threshold and V02max. Get those as high as possible. Regardless of racing distance you want work on those...

During the summer months. I use Tuesdays as FTP work on the trainer (live in an urban environment). On the weekend, I do A LOT of riding in the 80-85% (Zone 3) and some FTP work if I've got the energy.

Zone 3 - is Sweet Spot Training. You're working on fatigue resistance (a Benefit of Zone 2) and raising your LT (a Benefit of Zone 4).

By the time Ironman rolls around, riding at 68-72% is EASY.

I don't ride enough to warrant only Zone 1-2 training. I need to maximize my time training.

As the race approaches, I will dial back my Zone3/4 on the weekends and work on riding steady within the last 5 weeks. I'll do my Ironman efforts with dress rehersals.

Thanks for the feedback guys! Great stuff.

I repectfully disagree with the idea of riding in Zone 3. This is grey zone riding that taxes your body, but does nothing for your LT or VO2 max. If you are going to go hard, go hard - Zone 4 / 5 intervals. Otherwise, base work should be done in Zone 1 and 2. Putting your major mileage in Zone 3 will drain you and hamper recovery resulting in injury or lying on the couch too tired to train.

As far as IM, LT and VO2 numbers have very little to do with overall success. First and foremost, can you do the distance without walking? If yes, then think about muscular endurance on the bike (riding a larger gear).

My $0.02. Cheers.

Disagree all you want, but you are flat out wrong.




Funny, because I train exactly like I described and have not been injured or lying on the couch too tired to train.




There is no "muscular endurance", just endurance.  Which you can build in whatever gear you like. 


Sorry if it looks like I'm bashing you, however, the whole "grey zone" is a bunch of garbage that has been propogated over time.

Zone 3 for years got a bad rap.



Edited by running2far 2010-03-03 10:14 AM

x2. Great response JK, I read his post three times and decided I didn't agree with any of it, but didn't get a chance to post. I also train Zone 3 with great results. I would also suggest that it's Zone 1 that's the real garbage Zone of training.

Edited by bryancd 2010-03-03 10:15 AM

+1 ^^^^^

The only time I'm in zone 1 is if I'm bent over my bike recovering from a zone 4/5 effort or rolling out of the parking lot.

Further to JohnnyKay's post, check out Table 2 at this link for more info:

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/articles/cycling/power-training-levels-by-andrew-coggan.aspx

Shane

There are alot of different answers but one basic thing to keep in mind, you want to go from general to specific training. Your applying a overload, whether its volume or intensity , its your choice how and what stress you apply. But what ever the stress or training load applied keep in mind that it should reflect your race day goals. Also keep in mind 90% + of your FTP can be stressful on the body and depending on your other training, is harder to recover from so overall volume should be lower to help with overall stress.

For me (training for IMC) my intervals will reflect my race days goals, including my goals watts, so I will be doing a bit of sessions at HIM power and also my IM power +/-, but I do better with volume.

Glad I posted my thoughts and thanks for your comments. Looks like I need to start riding a little harder.

Being able to "come back the next day" is always critical.  And intensity should be considered not only in what you can handle today, but how the recovery from that effort will impact you tomorrow and the next day.

The same princliples can be applied to running.  The biggest difference there is the greater impact.  If you are a very "durable" runner (i.e., likely that you have done significant volume over a long time frame), then you can probably spend more time at higher intensities and get "more" (training load) with "less" (training time).

If you do higher inetnsities, then you will have to scale back volume (from what you otherwise would have been able to do at a lower intensity).  However, for many of us, the issue is finding enough time to put the volume in.  Once you have sort of "maxed out" your available trianing time, the only option to increase training load is through intensity.

It's also a good idea to follow and bike/run interval day with an easier day following. If I run intervals I will do an easier bike effort the next day, for example.

There is ample sicentific support that pace at LT is predictive of performance and success in marathon racing. IOW, the person with the fastest pace at threshold wins.

IM training should include ample time dedicated to raising threshold for best performance...but very few IM plans do so.

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