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Why do we need healthcare reform? (Page 3)
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 2010-03-08 6:33 AM in reply to: #2712500 |
Champion  6046    New York, NY |  Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform?KeriKadi - 2010-03-07 10:53 AM I've been thinking about this whole heathcare thing and I am sure there are no simple cost effective solutions or we wouldn't be in the boat we are in now. I have a question though which may sound silly but humor me if you will. Did anybody watch the show Northern Exposure in the 90s? The doctor that worked in the small town in Alaska was paying his dues after the state of Alaska paid for his medical school. He was obligated to work in this town for X number of years to pay back his tuition. Otherwise he would not have been able to afford medical school. I haven't researched this myself but have heard that doctors graduate medical school and complete their residency with tens-hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans. I wonder if there couldn't be some kind of program similiar to Northern Exposure and even the G.I. Bill where doctors would work for the government/state at a set salary to have their education paid for. I wonder if this wouldn't help with the folks who have no insurance. They would be seeing doctors who are paying back their student loans. Obviously this doesn't help with the current insurance issues. I have worked in billing in the medical field and gone most of my childhood without insurance so I know there is much work to be done. However, it seems like these are two separate issues - Those who need some kind of health care without insurance and those who pay a lot of money for insurance getting quality health care. it does exist. for areas that don't have physicians (because people don't want to live there) and the armed services. as for the OP - we need health INSURANCE reform not healthcare reform. This is what I had put in another thread: I think we need to make the insurance companies transparent and accountable. I know for a fact that BCBS wastes MILLIONS of dollars on internal studies that go no where. They label many of the salaries under administrative overhead and right now under the accounting laws can call that 'direct patient care' I call BS. patients are paying a fortune for health insurance, doctors are making less and less - the middle man needs to shift - and no I am not saying we have to have the government run it (they don't seem to do such a great job) I do want to truly see it be not for profit and not for giant bonuses and stock holder earnings. We also need to do something about malpractice - I think it should be handled like worker's compensation. Patients SHOULD be compensated when mistakes happen, but it should not be so punitive nor should it be a lottery ticket. I think those 2 things would do a world of difference, and that does not even address that pharmaceutical companies make more than double on medications here than in europe. I also believe in sin tax - alcohol and cigarettes SHOULD have an extra $5 per item tacked on to go directly to health care. Edited by TriToy 2010-03-08 6:38 AM |
| 2010-03-08 9:19 AM in reply to: #2712775 |
Master 4101  Denver | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? gearboy - 2010-03-07 1:40 PM KeriKadi - 2010-03-07 10:53 AM I've been thinking about this whole heathcare thing and I am sure there are no simple cost effective solutions or we wouldn't be in the boat we are in now. I have a question though which may sound silly but humor me if you will. Did anybody watch the show Northern Exposure in the 90s? The doctor that worked in the small town in Alaska was paying his dues after the state of Alaska paid for his medical school. He was obligated to work in this town for X number of years to pay back his tuition. Otherwise he would not have been able to afford medical school. I haven't researched this myself but have heard that doctors graduate medical school and complete their residency with tens-hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans. I wonder if there couldn't be some kind of program similiar to Northern Exposure and even the G.I. Bill where doctors would work for the government/state at a set salary to have their education paid for. I wonder if this wouldn't help with the folks who have no insurance. They would be seeing doctors who are paying back their student loans. Obviously this doesn't help with the current insurance issues. I have worked in billing in the medical field and gone most of my childhood without insurance so I know there is much work to be done. However, it seems like these are two separate issues - Those who need some kind of health care without insurance and those who pay a lot of money for insurance getting quality health care. There used to be a program (pre-Reagan) that basically paid for people to go to med school in exchange for service after residency. The budget was significantly cut in the Reagan years (when I went to med school), leaving only the military option (sign up for service after residency in exchange for med school and living expenses being paid for). There is periodically talk about doing some sort of debt forgiveness in shortage areas, but it is not universal. I would very much like to see a program like this become better funded - it would help redistribute primary care docs to areas where they are needed, and could also be used to increase the numbers of people in shortage specialties in general (like child psychiatry and child neurology). My brother has a friend who is French & went to medical school there. Granted theirs is a national system but the deal there was that the government paid for her entire medical schooling with the catch that they got to decide on her specialty. This way the government is able to fill in holes where there may be a shortage of doctors. |
| 2010-03-08 9:23 AM in reply to: #2712366 |
Extreme Veteran 446 Barrington, IL | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? The 2000 WHO report is widely used, but they stopped it because they realized how flawed it is. The answer on how good the US healthcare system is, even with all it faults, is that people from other countries come here in droves and pay there own money to use it. The system needs the major problems fixed - not to tear down the whole infrastructure. |
| 2010-03-08 9:27 AM in reply to: #2713793 |
Master 1795 Boynton Beach, FL | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? br /> My brother has a friend who is French & went to medical school there. Granted theirs is a national system but the deal there was that the government paid for her entire medical schooling with the catch that they got to decide on her specialty. This way the government is able to fill in holes where there may be a shortage of doctors. I think this is not a bad option for those who wish to avoid the high cost of higher education and are flexible in terms of career path. However, having my specialty area and future career pointed out to me would never happen. Think about the quality of care in this scenerio. John Doe really wants to be a cardiologist, has been his whole life. He gets to medical school and they tell him their are a shortage of podietrists. How passionate are they really going to be to excel in their field? I hope there is more to the story like a time table they can leave field after certain commitment etc. This is definition of socialism. |
| 2010-03-08 9:35 AM in reply to: #2713806 |
Master 4101 Denver | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? cardenas1 - 2010-03-08 8:27 AM I think this is not a bad option for those who wish to avoid the high cost of higher education and are flexible in terms of career path. However, having my specialty area and future career pointed out to me would never happen. Think about the quality of care in this scenerio. John Doe really wants to be a cardiologist, has been his whole life. He gets to medical school and they tell him their are a shortage of podietrists. How passionate are they really going to be to excel in their field? I hope there is more to the story like a time table they can leave field after certain commitment etc. This is definition of socialism. Yeah, that anecdote is all I really know, so I don't know if, say, after 10 years you can switch to whatever field you want or if you are willing to pay on your own you are able to choose the field. But it does seem like a good idea for helping to staff specialties that aren't as popular. I'm not 100% sure on this either but I think over there that since it's a naitonal system they may have a single pay scale for all doctors so there's not as much of a penalty for becoming a GP or a podiatrist (or whatever is in short supply) instead of a brain surgeon. Edited by drewb8 2010-03-08 9:36 AM |
| 2010-03-08 11:12 AM in reply to: #2713370 |
Extreme Veteran 751 | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? uclamatt2007 - 2010-03-08 12:23 AM k_watzek - 2010-03-07 6:58 AM When DH was in the Army I was covered by Tricare. However because I didn't live near a base/post I wanted to go to a local Dr. I found that many of them would NOT accept Tricare. How can you refuse to accept my insurance but my gov't insurance?!? Easy. They are paid the same amount as medicare and the dr's office thinks that amount is too low. They are paid more for the same procedure for private insurance companies so they didn't want to bother with me. Healthcare is not the problem. Insurance companies are the problem. The billing system is the problem. I'm not sure how doctors not accepting Tricare is the fault of the private insurance industry. It sounds like it is more the fault of the government plan. I'm not sure if that is what you were trying to say or not. It sounds like in this case that Tricare isn't paying the going rate for medical care in your area. I personally have no problem with doctors being paid what their fair market rate is. If I sold widgets for $100 and the government would only pay $60 $28 for them, I would imagine that I might not be interested in selling them widgets unless the volume made up for the lower profit margin. If you don't live near a base, the doctor just isn't going to see a volume from Tricare that would be worth the lower profit margin. Fixed that for you...to bring in line with actual numbers (haven't rechecked in a couple years...but doubt a lot better) otherwise good point. Edited by RiverRat50 2010-03-08 11:30 AM |
| 2010-03-08 11:55 AM in reply to: #2712366 |
Master 2802 Minnetonka, Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? We need health insurance reform, not helath care reform. We actually have very good health "care" The US spend twices as much per capita on health care as the next highest country, leaves 50 million or so of its citizens uncovered, and has only middle of teh road health outcomes. We pay a middle-man 30% (the health insurance oligopoly) to do actually nothing in the way of health CARE. |
| 2010-03-08 12:19 PM in reply to: #2714256 |
Master 1585 Folsom (Sacramento), CA | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? ejshowers - 2010-03-08 9:55 AM We need health insurance reform, not helath care reform. We actually have very good health "care" The US spend twices as much per capita on health care as the next highest country, leaves 50 million or so of its citizens uncovered, and has only middle of teh road health outcomes. We pay a middle-man 30% (the health insurance oligopoly) to do actually nothing in the way of health CARE. Maybe my health insurance company is just different, but Blue Shield of CA pays out 84% of its operating revenue in health benefits. I would find it hard to believe that other companies could take twice as much for adminstrative costs and profit and still stay competitive. |
| 2010-03-08 2:32 PM in reply to: #2714338 |
Master 2802 Minnetonka, Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? uclamatt2007 - 2010-03-08 12:19 PM ejshowers - 2010-03-08 9:55 AM We need health insurance reform, not helath care reform. We actually have very good health "care" The US spend twices as much per capita on health care as the next highest country, leaves 50 million or so of its citizens uncovered, and has only middle of teh road health outcomes. We pay a middle-man 30% (the health insurance oligopoly) to do actually nothing in the way of health CARE. Maybe my health insurance company is just different, but Blue Shield of CA pays out 84% of its operating revenue in health benefits. I would find it hard to believe that other companies could take twice as much for adminstrative costs and profit and still stay competitive. Yes, they are all different and can be different by state as well due to state laws. I am not in CA, but BCBS migh tbe non-proft there. Best stat I could find: So I should have said 26% instead of 30%, at least based on 2007 data. Might be up to 33% now, who knows!!! |
| 2010-03-08 6:43 PM in reply to: #2714338 |
Champion 6046 New York, NY | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? uclamatt2007 - 2010-03-08 1:19 PM ejshowers - 2010-03-08 9:55 AM We need health insurance reform, not helath care reform. We actually have very good health "care" The US spend twices as much per capita on health care as the next highest country, leaves 50 million or so of its citizens uncovered, and has only middle of teh road health outcomes. We pay a middle-man 30% (the health insurance oligopoly) to do actually nothing in the way of health CARE. Maybe my health insurance company is just different, but Blue Shield of CA pays out 84% of its operating revenue in health benefits. I would find it hard to believe that other companies could take twice as much for adminstrative costs and profit and still stay competitive. look further up the thread and you will see how it is that BCBS can make that claim. TOTAL b.s. |
| 2010-03-08 9:43 PM in reply to: #2712366 |
Pro 4189 Pittsburgh, my heart is in Glasgow | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? We need health insurance reform. And health care reform. And health education reform. I live in constant fear of losing my health insurance, of my husband losing his job. I have Type 1 diabetes, and before the "personal responsibility !!! one!!" crowd jumps on me, that's the kind that happens in kids and is not the result of a "lazy lifestyle". I need constant medicine, I wear and insulin pump. I need frequent blood testing (5+ times a day). I also had a freak accident last spring and broke my hip. Basically, if P ends up uninsured or unemployed, we are screwed. Screwed. I would never get coverage. I make just too much to get assistance. Between coming home from Britain and getting married, I pretty much sold everything I could afford to part with to pay for my COBRA payments and my medicines. We're pretty much to the point where we don't have anything left to part with if we do get to that point. It's stress inducing. Every time P even mentions the workload getting light, I panic. I start hoarding, I test my blood less. I take less insulin. I eat less food. I've been looking for a full time w/ benefits job for months, but have only been able to patch together a couple of part time gigs, and those just cover my loans with a little left over. There is no safety net for us. My care in Britain was fantastic. I was able to see a diabetes specialist, a podiatrist (for the first time ever!), had a GP who was less than two blocks from me, got my medications free/low charge. My roommate had a stroke 2 weeks into graduate school, at the age of 22. She spent 3 weeks in hospital and had frequent blood tests following, all efficiently coordinated, clean, and done well. She's now terrified to move home because she won't be covered (she's now in PhD and searching for permanent residency). I worked during my graduate study, and yes, I saw the taxes taken out of my check...but I never minded. It made me feel safe that I didn't have to worry about getting sick or having an accident on my bike or being charged because for some odd reason some paper pusher decided that my care wasn't "necessary". And yes, that care is part of the reason I am very actively trying to move permanently to the UK (along with a host of other reasons not related to this thread). I just wanted to emphasize that the whole "people on the NHS wait for ages" thing is not always reality...I wait longer for a specialist appointment here than I ever did in Britain. |
| 2010-03-08 10:53 PM in reply to: #2715507 |
Pro 4909 Hailey, ID | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? phoenixazul - 2010-03-08 8:43 PM We need health insurance reform. And health care reform. And health education reform. I live in constant fear of losing my health insurance, of my husband losing his job. I have Type 1 diabetes, and before the "personal responsibility !!! one!!" crowd jumps on me, that's the kind that happens in kids and is not the result of a "lazy lifestyle". I need constant medicine, I wear and insulin pump. I need frequent blood testing (5+ times a day). I also had a freak accident last spring and broke my hip. Basically, if P ends up uninsured or unemployed, we are screwed. Screwed. I would never get coverage. I make just too much to get assistance. Between coming home from Britain and getting married, I pretty much sold everything I could afford to part with to pay for my COBRA payments and my medicines. We're pretty much to the point where we don't have anything left to part with if we do get to that point. It's stress inducing. Every time P even mentions the workload getting light, I panic. I start hoarding, I test my blood less. I take less insulin. I eat less food. I've been looking for a full time w/ benefits job for months, but have only been able to patch together a couple of part time gigs, and those just cover my loans with a little left over. There is no safety net for us. My care in Britain was fantastic. I was able to see a diabetes specialist, a podiatrist (for the first time ever!), had a GP who was less than two blocks from me, got my medications free/low charge. My roommate had a stroke 2 weeks into graduate school, at the age of 22. She spent 3 weeks in hospital and had frequent blood tests following, all efficiently coordinated, clean, and done well. She's now terrified to move home because she won't be covered (she's now in PhD and searching for permanent residency). I worked during my graduate study, and yes, I saw the taxes taken out of my check...but I never minded. It made me feel safe that I didn't have to worry about getting sick or having an accident on my bike or being charged because for some odd reason some paper pusher decided that my care wasn't "necessary". And yes, that care is part of the reason I am very actively trying to move permanently to the UK (along with a host of other reasons not related to this thread). I just wanted to emphasize that the whole "people on the NHS wait for ages" thing is not always reality...I wait longer for a specialist appointment here than I ever did in Britain. It is great that you got that service in Britain, but is it fair for everyone else to pay for your health issues? I'm not saying I have an answer, just an honest question. |
| 2010-03-08 10:56 PM in reply to: #2712366 |
Pro 4909 Hailey, ID | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? Another thing that is forgotten a lot in these discussions. Right now other countries rely HEAVLY on America's private health companies big research dollars and private sector money to advance medical technique and then trickle down into cheaper forms of healthcare. Lose that, and all the sudden the universal health care in other countries, which some already have problems affording without taxing people to death, will have an even harder time if the US tries the same. |
| 2010-03-09 2:07 AM in reply to: #2715563 |
Pro 3932 Irvine, California | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? bradword - 2010-03-08 8:53 PM phoenixazul - 2010-03-08 8:43 PM We need health insurance reform. And health care reform. And health education reform. I live in constant fear of losing my health insurance, of my husband losing his job. I have Type 1 diabetes, and before the "personal responsibility !!! one!!" crowd jumps on me, that's the kind that happens in kids and is not the result of a "lazy lifestyle". I need constant medicine, I wear and insulin pump. I need frequent blood testing (5+ times a day). I also had a freak accident last spring and broke my hip. Basically, if P ends up uninsured or unemployed, we are screwed. Screwed. I would never get coverage. I make just too much to get assistance. Between coming home from Britain and getting married, I pretty much sold everything I could afford to part with to pay for my COBRA payments and my medicines. We're pretty much to the point where we don't have anything left to part with if we do get to that point. It's stress inducing. Every time P even mentions the workload getting light, I panic. I start hoarding, I test my blood less. I take less insulin. I eat less food. I've been looking for a full time w/ benefits job for months, but have only been able to patch together a couple of part time gigs, and those just cover my loans with a little left over. There is no safety net for us. My care in Britain was fantastic. I was able to see a diabetes specialist, a podiatrist (for the first time ever!), had a GP who was less than two blocks from me, got my medications free/low charge. My roommate had a stroke 2 weeks into graduate school, at the age of 22. She spent 3 weeks in hospital and had frequent blood tests following, all efficiently coordinated, clean, and done well. She's now terrified to move home because she won't be covered (she's now in PhD and searching for permanent residency). I worked during my graduate study, and yes, I saw the taxes taken out of my check...but I never minded. It made me feel safe that I didn't have to worry about getting sick or having an accident on my bike or being charged because for some odd reason some paper pusher decided that my care wasn't "necessary". And yes, that care is part of the reason I am very actively trying to move permanently to the UK (along with a host of other reasons not related to this thread). I just wanted to emphasize that the whole "people on the NHS wait for ages" thing is not always reality...I wait longer for a specialist appointment here than I ever did in Britain. It is great that you got that service in Britain, but is it fair for everyone else to pay for your health issues? I'm not saying I have an answer, just an honest question.Yes it's fair. Why? Because we all have bodies, none of us are getting any younger, and shyte happens. No matter how well you take care of yourself, you can still get sick, get injured, or develop some nasty disease, etc. That's why people created insurance in the first place. Everyone pays into a common pool so that when it's their unlucky day, they'll be covered. Insurance is not redistribution of wealth -- it's merely a way for each of us to mitigate our risk. Now having said that, I'm well aware that the population falls into different risk pools. And I do believe it's fair for people in higher risk pools to pay more, within reason. |
| 2010-03-09 6:12 AM in reply to: #2715567 |
| Payson, AZ | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? bradword - 2010-03-08 8:56 PM Another thing that is forgotten a lot in these discussions. Right now other countries rely HEAVLY on America's private health companies big research dollars and private sector money to advance medical technique and then trickle down into cheaper forms of healthcare. Lose that, and all the sudden the universal health care in other countries, which some already have problems affording without taxing people to death, will have an even harder time if the US tries the same. That is true, but, that being said, one of those companies got sued for some sort of billion dollar payment and it didn't even put a dent in their budget. They are not suffering cause countries like Canada offer drugs for cheaper. I do not think the big companies will shut their doors if the US offered a single payer system and/or health insurance reform. These components of the system are not what is paying for the research. And a lot of the research dollars actually comes from government grants as well. |
| 2010-03-09 6:57 AM in reply to: #2715689 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? bzgl40 - 2010-03-09 6:12 AM bradword - 2010-03-08 8:56 PM Another thing that is forgotten a lot in these discussions. Right now other countries rely HEAVLY on America's private health companies big research dollars and private sector money to advance medical technique and then trickle down into cheaper forms of healthcare. Lose that, and all the sudden the universal health care in other countries, which some already have problems affording without taxing people to death, will have an even harder time if the US tries the same. That is true, but, that being said, one of those companies got sued for some sort of billion dollar payment and it didn't even put a dent in their budget. They are not suffering cause countries like Canada offer drugs for cheaper. I do not think the big companies will shut their doors if the US offered a single payer system and/or health insurance reform. These components of the system are not what is paying for the research. And a lot of the research dollars actually comes from government grants as well. That's not the point. The fact is, foreign countries are currently able to provide cheaper healthcare to their own people because the American markets subsidize them. Basically foreign revenue is just "icing on the cake" to big pharma and medical equipment companies. That explains why it looks like foreign countries provide relatively cheaper healthcare. |
| 2010-03-09 6:58 AM in reply to: #2715563 |
Pro 4189 Pittsburgh, my heart is in Glasgow | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? bradword - 2010-03-08 11:53 PM It is great that you got that service in Britain, but is it fair for everyone else to pay for your health issues? I'm not saying I have an answer, just an honest question. Well, considering my British taxes pay for everyone else as well...I guess, yes. Look, no one asks for diabetes. No one asks to be hit by a car. No one asks to be diagnosed with cancer. As we all get older, things start to happen...colon screening, breast cancer, cataracts, arthritis, Parkinsons...and Those who are healthy, well hooray for you, it must be nice, but realize that that might not always be the case. And what would happen if you didn't have insurance or didn't have the money to cover your treatment or pay an arm and a leg to get someone to cover you? But for me, as a woman, heck as a person, I am pretty OK with taking care of those who get sick, get pregnant (which is another thing that makes my insurance ridiculously expensive...insurance companies see a 24 yr old woman as nothing but a walking uterus, the term is "pre pregnant" regardless of my reproductive desires), have accidents. |
| 2010-03-09 7:26 AM in reply to: #2715563 |
Champion 6046 New York, NY | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? bradword - 2010-03-08 11:53 PM It is great that you got that service in Britain, but is it fair for everyone else to pay for your health issues? I'm not saying I have an answer, just an honest question. You think now that you are not paying for other's health problems??? really??? Sorry to break it to you, but the reason I pay $1000 per month for me and my boys (and I doubt we cost them that a year) is subsidizing the sicker amongst us. Besides that, yes we live in a society - and in a society the stronger help take care of the weaker. |
| 2010-03-09 7:50 AM in reply to: #2715788 |
Champion 18680 Lost in the Luminiferous Aether | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? TriToy - 2010-03-09 8:26 AM bradword - 2010-03-08 11:53 PM It is great that you got that service in Britain, but is it fair for everyone else to pay for your health issues? I'm not saying I have an answer, just an honest question. You think now that you are not paying for other's health problems??? really??? Sorry to break it to you, but the reason I pay $1000 per month for me and my boys (and I doubt we cost them that a year) is subsidizing the sicker amongst us. Besides that, yes we live in a society - and in a society the stronger help take care of the weaker. No right now we spread risk amongst ourselves, there is a difference. Insurance is not a payement plan it is just that insurance so it doesn't matter what you cost them this year or next it is what you are likely to cost them over your life time. Unfortunately these two defining characteristics of insurance have been lost on the American people and now they treat insurance as some kind of reverse lay away. "I want cheap insurance and I want my insurance to pay for anything I choose to buy" seems to be the prevailing ideology in this debate. *this last was not directed at you specifically tritoy |
| 2010-03-09 7:54 AM in reply to: #2715788 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? TriToy - 2010-03-09 8:26 AM Besides that, yes we live in a society - and in a society the stronger help take care of the weaker. But is it right to force the stronger to do so by law? |
| 2010-03-09 7:59 AM in reply to: #2715823 |
Champion 6046 New York, NY | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? Scout7 - 2010-03-09 8:54 AM TriToy - 2010-03-09 8:26 AM Besides that, yes we live in a society - and in a society the stronger help take care of the weaker. But is it right to force the stronger to do so by law?oh I do not think we should mandate purchasing private insurance. I think there should be a public option - actually I would like to see basic preventative care covered for everyone. And same with trauma/emergency (true emergency not the current use of ERs) with coverage for everything else left up to individuals (out of pocket vs pay for a policy...) |
| 2010-03-09 8:34 AM in reply to: #2715823 |
Pro 3906 St Charles, IL | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? Scout7 - 2010-03-09 7:54 AM TriToy - 2010-03-09 8:26 AM Besides that, yes we live in a society - and in a society the stronger help take care of the weaker. But is it right to force the stronger to do so by law?Do you propose the stronger should turn their backs on the weak? |
| 2010-03-09 8:41 AM in reply to: #2715567 |
Master 2802 Minnetonka, Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? bradword - 2010-03-08 10:56 PM Another thing that is forgotten a lot in these discussions. Right now other countries rely HEAVLY on America's private health companies big research dollars and private sector money to advance medical technique and then trickle down into cheaper forms of healthcare. Lose that, and all the sudden the universal health care in other countries, which some already have problems affording without taxing people to death, will have an even harder time if the US tries the same. Sorry, but I cannot take this at face value without some supporting research/documentation. Please provide some if possible. "I heard it on Fox news" doesn't count.... |
| 2010-03-09 8:43 AM in reply to: #2715932 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? coredump - 2010-03-09 9:34 AM Scout7 - 2010-03-09 7:54 AM TriToy - 2010-03-09 8:26 AM Besides that, yes we live in a society - and in a society the stronger help take care of the weaker. But is it right to force the stronger to do so by law?Do you propose the stronger should turn their backs on the weak? No. I think it should be each individual's choice as to what he feels is appropriate. Personally, I'd rather we got rid of insurance entirely. |
| 2010-03-09 8:45 AM in reply to: #2715730 |
Expert 960 Highlands Ranch, CO | Subject: RE: Why do we need healthcare reform? scoobysdad - 2010-03-09 5:57 AM bzgl40 - 2010-03-09 6:12 AM That's not the point. The fact is, foreign countries are currently able to provide cheaper healthcare to their own people because the American markets subsidize them. Basically foreign revenue is just "icing on the cake" to big pharma and medical equipment companies. That explains why it looks like foreign countries provide relatively cheaper healthcare.bradword - 2010-03-08 8:56 PM Another thing that is forgotten a lot in these discussions. Right now other countries rely HEAVLY on America's private health companies big research dollars and private sector money to advance medical technique and then trickle down into cheaper forms of healthcare. Lose that, and all the sudden the universal health care in other countries, which some already have problems affording without taxing people to death, will have an even harder time if the US tries the same. That is true, but, that being said, one of those companies got sued for some sort of billion dollar payment and it didn't even put a dent in their budget. They are not suffering cause countries like Canada offer drugs for cheaper. I do not think the big companies will shut their doors if the US offered a single payer system and/or health insurance reform. These components of the system are not what is paying for the research. And a lot of the research dollars actually comes from government grants as well. Absolutely not true. Here is a list of a few h/c companies and revenues from the US. Pfizer - 42% Eli Lilly - 54% Abbott Labs - 49% Bristol Myers - 58% Merck - 56% Celgene - 65% Gilead - 53% Johnson and Johnson - 51% Medtronic - 62% Boston Scientific - 58% Baxter - 41% So to say that foreign revenues are just icing on the cake is just false. And people seem to forget that there are plenty of foreign pharmaceutical companies that also develop drugs including Shire, Novo Nordisk, Novartis, AstraZeneca, Glaxo Smith Kline, just to name a few. The largest generic drug company, Teva, is based in Israel. |
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