Running injury free (Page 2)

its not that i dont think speedwork is needed, but rather i look at it as a volume before speed. build until you are at your limit (be it time, training schedules, desire, whatever), THEN add in faster running.

I also think a lot of people wildly blow up how much they think a day on the track or something similar per week is going t do to your running. you wont suddenly drop 10sec per mile or something like that from a hard run or two per week.



To the poster who mentioned therapist fixing issues, sometimes we do have underlying issues there, or like the poster above you, sometimes we just get hurt.

Very interesting thread. I had a couple of injuries and my solution was to run less but only do what i consider to be "quality" workouts. However after reading everyone's positive experiences with running more but slower, maybe I have gone about it the wrong way? I love to run, I just always assumed that i cant run as much as I wanted to. I run a lot less than most of my tri friends. I do one tempo run, one speed session and one long run per week (similar to the FIRST program). The only thing that really changes is adding a few brick runs closer to races. Fortunately, I have also been able to run faster (PRd the 5k and half marathon distance this winter) and am running injury free. All my training is in my blogs here.

Thanks for giving me some food for thought! I really would like to add more run volume this year. I had a very conservative run volume before IMAZ last year and want to improve on that this year

 

Edited for spelling

Edited by riorio 2010-03-30 5:04 PM

thats how i ran for years, only i kept getting hurt. was pretty sure there was no way higher mileage would happen. Funny part is, the jump from 20-30mpw was WAY harder to maintain than the jump from 30-50. once i got used to running 5-7 times a week (prob took two weeks of doing that for it to feel normal), adding volume from there was easy.

Newbz
Since you sugested I add a extra day to my run schedule last month to help with progress I moved from a 3 day a week run schedule to 4. 

I didn't move to more than 4 days a week at this point because I was also training for a 25K which is next weekend.  

So normally this would be a Double No-No. Increasing frequency and increasing the volume all at once, But what I did, was as you suggest run everything slooow, I stay in zone 2 which is 12 to 13 MM for me. On ALL of my long runs and some of the shorter ones I use the Galloway Run/Walk usually 4:1 or 3:1 ratio.  I have moved from  65 miles last month total to 100 after this evenings run with no problems at all.  The key is to really slow down and the Run/Walk on the long runs seems to help alot too. 

Other things I have done is if I feel a little pain or soreness in a area and It doesnt feel better by next schedules run I do something else.. Row, Bike, Lift Weight etc,,etc,,  and all has gone well.  So adding a day or two or increasing your volume can be as easy as slowing way down and use some walk breaks, Cross train if you feel any problems coming on don't run through them. 

I came back off the couch November of last year after about a 3 year layoff from running so this is also how I built up to this point. Lots of  slow runs and used Run/Walk to get to where I could cover a given distance.  My first goal was 12-15 miles a week,  so  I ran walked everything. I did two 3 mile runs mid week and one 6 mile run on the weekend, once I got to where I could run/walk the 6 Miles I started decreasing the walk breaks on the 3 mile week runs and got to where I could run the whole 3 miles. and then started doing the same thing with the 6 mile run.  

When I added the day and pushed the volume up for the 25K training,  I run walk some of the week day stuff too just to make sure I recover for the next workout. 

Being my first year back I don't plan to RACE anything longer than a 5k. I'm running the 25K but it is a to finish goal not a time goal,  I'll do that Next year with more miles under my feet.  

Anyway great advice as always.  

Found this thread very interesting as i have only just started running, and at 46 speed is the last thing on my mind at the moment. I have just finished the third week of the couch to 5k plan and that's when my troubles started. I had a nagging pain on the outside of my ankle following the run.  The problem was not hard to spot, my right foot rolls in when i run /walk. I brought myself a pair of orthotic insoles to sought the problem.  I can see they make a lot of difference to the way my foot works now.
The thing is , it says to wear them in gradually as they can and are causing a bit of discomfort, as i am only wearing them in my running shoes, how long should i wait before i should be able to run more comfortably.

Thanks for pointing that out. It's interesting, because at the time I was training it seemed like my mileage build-up was reasonable, and I really was (mostly) following the 10 percent rule week to week. But looking at the graphs over a longer period, it's obvious that I was doing too much, too soon. I've been stuck at running 25 mpw this year, and feeling "guilty" about my low mileage, but now I'm thinking that's exactly what I should be doing, and then build up very, *very* slowly.

I have another question: I think Newbz pointed out that most people get injured either during the training or *after* the marathon, but not often during the marathon itself. I get how people get injured during training, but where do the post-marathon injuries come from? That's happened to me twice, and I don't get why it is that I can feel fine during training, and fine during the 26 miles, and then a week or two (or three) after the race my body seems to fall apart.

Happened to me 2 months ago, ran a 30k on a sunday, was fine until a short run on Thursday. . . .since then on the shelf with ITBS.

I have found that people who get injured after a big race do so because they were already on the edge of something happening, and then they put in a big effort that probably pushes them over but they don't realize it yet. They rest up a bit, take it easy for a week, then jump into training again. Bam, injury.

Chances are you were sitting right on the edge for a while.

Most running injuries are overuse ones.  So it's an "accumulated" problem.  Many people reach the "breaking point" before their marathon.  But others (like myself) make it through the race but become injured shortly thereafter.  The injury was essentially "building" the whole time but just hadn't shown itself yet.

Thanks for the answers, guys. That does make sense, and it's good to know what's going on (although still really damn frustrating to be injured).

And I thought I was being smart in my training. *sigh*

Because in most cases you push your self WAYY harder in a race than you do in training. Thus you have put alot more stress on everything over a long distance.   Galloways Post marathon plans have you walking alot and doing very light load for several weeks after the race.  His Plans extend several weeks Post race to help you get back to training safely. 

Good thread.  It's reminding me to listen to my body and to back off if it's telling me to and to keep an eye on my volume.  I didn't realize I coudl see the graphs.  Very cool.

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^^ Thank you

Terrific thread, David. You are a great new resource to this forum. I don't have time to read everything right now, but I am a runner who never got injured and I think most people really never should get injured, they just make mistakes which result in injury. I attribute my lack of run injuries to quality, true base run training as prescribed by my coach as I built volume. Yes, it was HR based and yes, I did have to walk hills. So clearly early pace management as volume is increased is key. I would also add that genetics do play a significant role in this regard. I was born to run, literally. I was built that way. I think anyone can become a great runner, but in regards to injuries, i do think some of us are less predisposed to them than others. But that's just an observation, not scientific or medical fact.

bryan,

i think when people talk about genetics being their limiter in sports vs training, this is one part they often overlook and i think plays a bigger role than the how fast you can get on normal training, the how much and how well you can recover and withstand workouts.

being able to turn around and go again the next day, or the next workout without it harming you as much is a HUGE part of this sport (and many others).

its comforting to see your post on the jump from 30-50 being easier than 20-30. I find it harder to go more days a week than running farther.

Great thread. A couple of insights to share. I used to be 'MR. RUNNING Injury'. In prepeartion for IMSA, I decided that I needed to do something different, or else I would not make it to the starting line. So I did the following:

1) Slowed my long runs from 7:45 miles to 8:45 miles;
2) Got rid of pretty much all my speed work;
3) Increase my running pace from the mid-70s to the mid-80s.

I am pleased to report that with 3 weeks to go - inshallah - I should make it to the starting line at IMSA . For me, I think increasing my running pace shortened my stride which took a load off my glutes; my glutes were usually the catalyist for hamstring / calf / achillies issues.

Cheers.

If your logs are accurate, you went from 35 miles total running in February to almost 73 miles in March. It looks to me like maybe you added volume too quickly, even though it was all at a slow easy pace. Even though it's slow, you still need to allow your body to adapt to the increased mileage.....

Couple things:

As previously noted, you added volume pretty quick. You might consider adding in some miles, holding for a few weeks, then adding in some more, instead of always adding every week.

Second, you're using the HRM AND going by feel? While there may be some use in monitoring both, ultimately you need to pick one of those methods and use it as your primary method for tracking effort. If you're using HRM, and the monitor says you're in Zone 3, but your RPE says you're easy, then you need to back it down.