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Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong?
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 2010-04-21 12:17 PM |
Expert  939    Tulsa |  Subject: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong?Ok so let me start off by saying that I have NO problem with people drafting off of me during group rides. I personally don't draft because it's illegal in our sport. Soo yesterday there was a group ride and I was the best rider there. So I start off up front and go my pace etc. We had about 8 guys that were in a draft line behind me. I pushed pretty hard in some spots and the ride was about 25 miles total. So here we are at mile 22 and I'm still pulling. Been averaging 22-25 on the flats most of the way....We come up to the last semi long climb of the day....We get 1/2 way up the hill and 3-4 of the guys zip around me and take off up the hill. So i've been pulling them at a pace that there is NO way they could keep by themselves for 25 miles and they sprint up the hill like "look how much I have left". I just thought that was totally rude since I had been working hard pulling them along and they wait until the last hill and bust it up there. I understand if they fell good, but if they wanted to feel the burn they could have got out of the draft and up front u know. Needless to say I still had enough left to catch them up the hill and drop them to the end of the ride lol, but still....What does BT think about this situation? If you've been sitting on someone's wheel the whole time is it rude to try and drop everyone the last 2 miles even though you haven't done anything but draft? |
| 2010-04-21 12:21 PM in reply to: #2807333 |
Expert 1159 Charlotte, NC | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? Definitely rude behavior on their part, but I do wonder why you pulled the whole way? I would have expected you to pull out at some point and let the next person move to the front. |
| 2010-04-21 12:22 PM in reply to: #2807333 |
Master 2355 Houston, TX | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? |
| 2010-04-21 12:24 PM in reply to: #2807333 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? So what? They have benefited from you pulling them and decided to do some work on their own as opposed to trying to "show you up". It wasn't a race. Did they throw it in your face after? I would have no problem with that. |
| 2010-04-21 12:26 PM in reply to: #2807353 |
Champion 5874 Milton, GA | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? smilford - 2010-04-21 1:22 PM That's how the sport of cycling works. Suck it up butter cup.  +1 You stayed out front so they drafted. Had you let them pull for a while they probably would have. I have intentionally pulled my group for 20+ miles as it is a great workout. I really don't care if they take off on the last hill. |
| 2010-04-21 12:31 PM in reply to: #2807333 |
Champion 6962 Atlanta, Ga | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? As others have said, it's the way it works. You chose to pull the group and they used that opportunity. No different than in a running race into the wind. I will let the lead guy stay out there all day long. Then I will thank him after the finish line (assuming I can get around him). It's not rude at all. |
| 2010-04-21 12:32 PM in reply to: #2807333 |
Pro 4277 Parker, CO | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? like you i am not much on drafting. that being said I have drafted at times and have had others draft off me. I learned lonng ago that if there is a pace line everyone shares in the work. that means telling the next guy to take the lead for a while...even if you are the stronger rider. maybe rude...maybe your ego bruised... |
| 2010-04-21 12:33 PM in reply to: #2807333 |
Extreme Veteran 680 Acworth, GA | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? As 99.9% of my rides are solo rides, I can't speak from experience but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Now if they follow it up with comments like, I dropped you on the hill, then I'd just take a sarcastic jab back like, "well pulling 1500 lbs of drag through 22 miles will do that, try it sometime". Sounds like your workout was a lot better than what they got and will be stronger physically in the long run because of it. No worries, this is supposed to be fun. |
| 2010-04-21 12:34 PM in reply to: #2807349 |
Expert 939 Tulsa | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? Patrick E - 2010-04-21 12:21 PM Definitely rude behavior on their part, but I do wonder why you pulled the whole way? I would have expected you to pull out at some point and let the next person move to the front. Well I don't like to draft and the pace would have slowed down a lot. I'm not really good with drafting. I hate being right behind people because I can't see the road. Here in Oklahoma we have the worst roads in the nation. And i'm not just saying that....It's been published somewhere. And I have noooo problem drafting in a cycling road race. The point is to do exactly what they did to me. Draft as much as possible and sprint at the finish to try and win. I don't care all that much, but I wouldn't do that to someone. If anything I would go past them and make sure it slow enough for them to catch my tire. That just seems like a thank you for pulling. Edited by ballyard7 2010-04-21 12:37 PM |
| 2010-04-21 12:34 PM in reply to: #2807333 |
Master 1826 | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? It is called cycling, and it is known as an attack. I don't understand your statement "I personally don't draft because it's illegal in our sport" .. great except you are in a group ride not a triathlon, not the same sport |
| 2010-04-21 12:35 PM in reply to: #2807333 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? I'm gonna have to agree with the last posts. It's not a big deal. You chose to get your workout in by pulling most of the day. They chose to get their workout in by sitting in and sprinting up a hill. It's just training. Now if they were your domestique's climbing Mt. Ventoux and they pulled that, you would have reason to yell. Next time drop em while you are pulling and leave no doubt. Edited by tjfry 2010-04-21 12:37 PM |
| 2010-04-21 12:39 PM in reply to: #2807402 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? Is it unethical/unsportmanlike/ungentlemanly/uncool (not sure which one really applies since it's just a training ride), maybe. I personally feel guilty if I don't do my fair share of pulling (or at least communicate that I don't have it in my to contribute more). You got your workout, he didn't talk crap. Why worry about it? Maybe he like to finish his workout with a sprint (as if in a race)... |
| 2010-04-21 12:39 PM in reply to: #2807401 |
Expert 939 Tulsa | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? FeltonR.Nubbinsworth - 2010-04-21 12:34 PM It is called cycling, and it is known as an attack. I don't understand your statement "I personally don't draft because it's illegal in our sport" .. great except you are in a group ride not a triathlon, not the same sport I meant that I don't draft because we can't do it in triathlons so I like to practice how I race. Just because you draft someone for 60 miles at 20mph on a ride doesn't mean you can do it alone in a triathlon. Edited by ballyard7 2010-04-21 12:41 PM |
| 2010-04-21 12:40 PM in reply to: #2807333 |
Master 2094 | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? Sounds like a normal day of cycling. 2 miles from the end it is no longer a "no drop ride" The gloves come off and everyone sprints to the end. |
| 2010-04-21 12:40 PM in reply to: #2807425 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? ballyard7 - 2010-04-21 10:39 AM FeltonR.Nubbinsworth - 2010-04-21 12:34 PM It is called cycling, and it is known as an attack. I don't understand your statement "I personally don't draft because it's illegal in our sport" .. great except you are in a group ride not a triathlon, not the same sport I meant that I don't draft because we can't do it in triathlons so I like to practice how I race. Just because you draft someone for 60 miles on a ride doesn't mean you can do it alone in a triathlon. I don't think it matters too much. If I'm riding 6 hours in Z2, I'm riding 6 hrs in Z2. If I draft, probably means I'm going faster than if I go solo. Same workout, but I might go faster/further if I draft. |
| 2010-04-21 12:42 PM in reply to: #2807333 |
| Master 2460 | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? This happens a lot. The first few times it happened to me (I pull a LOT on my group ride), I also got annoyed, as the back guys would rabbit to the front either on the very final hill or blast away on a final sprint in the end. After being on the opposite end of this situation as the guy being towed, I definitely have a lot of respect for the monster strong guys pulling up front fast. Even if I can sprint in the end, I know the other guys up front were stronger. If you ride with roadies, they'll often do the finishing sprint/climb not to humble you and prove you're better (ok, a little of that!) but also to practice their anaerobic finishing gutbusting sprint that is a required skill to win races. If they did that mid-ride, they'd likely be dropped. I'ave had them tell me afterwards that they knew I was strongest on those rides. You're riding strong though if you can pull at the front with roadies - keep it up. Edited by agarose2000 2010-04-21 12:43 PM |
| 2010-04-21 12:43 PM in reply to: #2807424 |
Expert 939 Tulsa | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? Kido - 2010-04-21 12:39 PM Is it unethical/unsportmanlike/ungentlemanly/uncool (not sure which one really applies since it's just a training ride), maybe. I personally feel guilty if I don't do my fair share of pulling (or at least communicate that I don't have it in my to contribute more). You got your workout, he didn't talk crap. Why worry about it? Maybe he like to finish his workout with a sprint (as if in a race)... Thats kind of how I feel. I guess I'm a "nice" cyclist lol. I would feel aweful in a group ride if I drafted some guy for a few miles and then flew around him while he was tired and didn't give me a chance to catch my wheel. I guess thats just me. |
| 2010-04-21 12:44 PM in reply to: #2807353 |
| over a barrier | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? smilford - 2010-04-21 12:22 PM That's how the sport of cycling works. Suck it up butter cup. ^^This. |
| 2010-04-21 12:44 PM in reply to: #2807333 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? Yup. Sounds about right. |
| 2010-04-21 12:48 PM in reply to: #2807437 |
Champion 5874 Milton, GA | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? ballyard7 - 2010-04-21 1:43 PM Kido - 2010-04-21 12:39 PM Is it unethical/unsportmanlike/ungentlemanly/uncool (not sure which one really applies since it's just a training ride), maybe. I personally feel guilty if I don't do my fair share of pulling (or at least communicate that I don't have it in my to contribute more). You got your workout, he didn't talk crap. Why worry about it? Maybe he like to finish his workout with a sprint (as if in a race)... Thats kind of how I feel. I guess I'm a "nice" cyclist lol. I would feel aweful in a group ride if I drafted some guy for a few miles and then flew around him while he was tired and didn't give me a chance to catch my wheel. I guess thats just me. But remember it is up to the person pulling as to how long he/she wants to pull. It can be 2 seconds or 2 hours. The other riders are not going to care as long as everyone knows what to expect. |
| 2010-04-21 12:48 PM in reply to: #2807425 |
Master 1826 | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? ballyard7 - 2010-04-21 1:39 PM FeltonR.Nubbinsworth - 2010-04-21 12:34 PM It is called cycling, and it is known as an attack. I don't understand your statement "I personally don't draft because it's illegal in our sport" .. great except you are in a group ride not a triathlon, not the same sport I meant that I don't draft because we can't do it in triathlons so I like to practice how I race. Just because you draft someone for 60 miles at 20mph on a ride doesn't mean you can do it alone in a triathlon. Then why do pros like Macca/Lieto motor pace? They are not going to ride behind a vespa during the race.. there is a benefit in training at higher speeds with lower efforts |
| 2010-04-21 12:49 PM in reply to: #2807333 |
| Expert 618 | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? Riding in a pack is a different "animal" and if all the players in the pack don't know how to do it then very few benefit overall. Having a freight train you can sit behind is great (you were the train in this instance) but if it is done properly then even someone who is not as strong could come through, do a pull and then go to the back. It is not that the group couldn't maintain the pace if they came through to the front, it is more likely that they don't know how to effectively ride in a group. And some people are natural climbers that perhaps were stronger than you in that instance and wanted to "stretch their legs." I'm a decent climber and by nature in the group rides I am in I will gravitate toward the front on every single climb even if there is someone who is stronger on the flats. It is just what happens. |
| 2010-04-21 12:50 PM in reply to: #2807333 |
Expert 703 Palm Springs, California | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? Hills and pace lines are two different things, and few people think it's rude for people to climb at their own pace. Heck, professional cycling even has special jerseys for various disciplines. Also, anyone who likes hills will do intervals and climbs at their own limit. They may chase or pursue other climbers just as a game, but making it to the top early doesn't reflect on how strong various riders are when they pull. People do hill intervals off the front all the time. And I agree with the comment above, if it bothers you (it shouldn't), tap your hip and start a rotation. Pulling for more than a few seconds is voluntary. As an example, it's very common for tandems to pace rides on the flat, and crawl up hills on the third chain ring. There's nothing wrong about passing a tandem on a hill. It's polite to wait at the top, but not a breach of etiquette to pass. |
| 2010-04-21 12:51 PM in reply to: #2807333 |
Expert 1116 Thornton, CO | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? Not a big deal when it happens to me. I pull people all the time because I masochistically like riding into the wind a lot of days. The cycling groups I ride with know this and know that it's in my benefit to not be one of the people drafting since it's not allowed with USAT. So they just hang out behind me, sometimes chatting away, while I'm up front for 3/4 of a ride. If a few of them (or all of them) what to sprint it out in the last 2 miles I'll cheer them on and use it as another piece of my workout.... trying to stay on the wheel of someone who's much fresher than I am and sprinting full out. I think every cyclist can recognize when someone has been at the front the majority of the ride and doesn't have the steam left to sprint to a finish.... if it was a race, you'd have been played and it would be your fault for sitting out front, but during training you're the one who's benefiting the most. |
| 2010-04-21 12:54 PM in reply to: #2807458 |
| Expert 618 | Subject: RE: Drafting during group rides....Am I wrong? FeltonR.Nubbinsworth - 2010-04-21 1:48 PM Then why do pros like Macca/Lieto motor pace? They are not going to ride behind a vespa during the race.. Why not? Contador seems to at the Tour.  One of the "heated discussions" that goes on is that the reason the pros of old (like Allen and Scott) put up such great times on much lesser equipment is because they drafted off the lead vehicles in their races. Do I agree with that? Not necessarily, but I wasn't there. And to the OP, there IS legal drafting in tris even in non-draft events. There is slingshotting and staying within the mandatory "X" bike lengths will still create a benefit to the rider behind. While there should not be pack riding (a la Clearwater) there are still legal ways to make the most of the riders slipstream around you. |
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