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Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower?
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 2010-06-15 12:29 PM |
Regular  62  Fort Bragg, NC |  Subject: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower?I tried out training with an HRM about two months ago, and I really like it. I've never been able to find that sweet spot that lets me train without running out of air after a mile, and I'm up to 6 miles for my long runs at about 171 beats per minute (158 was supposed to be my aerobic max, but I find that 171 is a comfortable max for me to run for an hour at a time...once I hit 172, I start to cramp and feel like I need to stop). If I'm training this way, should I be getting faster at 171 beats per minute, or should my "comfortable" max be getting higher? Like, for example, if running for an hour at 171 is a 10:00/mile pace, should I be expecting to eventually be able to do 9:30's at 171? Or should I eventually get comfortable doing my hour at 175? I realized the other day that while I definitely feel like I'm improving and my confidence is soaring, I'm not completely sure what the goal of this type of training is. I'm used to just running all out for as long as I can five days a week and hoping someday I can run farther than I used to be able to (i.e., not at all organized). |
| 2010-06-15 12:33 PM in reply to: #2923043 |
Regular 105 | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? From my understand of the body... It doesn't get easier, you just get faster! Keep training and you will start to see results. |
| 2010-06-15 12:36 PM in reply to: #2923043 |
Master 2158 | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? I agree, it doesn't get easier, you just get faster. Actually, over time ( a few months) you should be able to run the same pace with a lower HR. I don't think it feels much easier though. Also, where are you getting your number for Aerobic max? What kind of testing did you do to your zones. 171 does sound a little high for an everyday aerobic workout. Is that your avg HR or the HR at the end when you are wiped out? |
| 2010-06-15 12:41 PM in reply to: #2923043 |
Member 115 West Georgia | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? I think there is a mental aspect to the whole thing. I think you get 'used' to it more than it get easier. It's like your threshold increases. So running the same distance gets mentally easier. There are obviously fitness improvements too. Keep working and good luck! |
| 2010-06-15 12:45 PM in reply to: #2923043 |
Veteran 278 | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? Eventually your heart rate will get lower at that speed, as you get faster. But in order to get faster, you need to run faster. i.e. do your fist mile at 10:30/mile pace, then do 2 miles at 9:30/mile pace, or something similar Edited by coltank17 2010-06-15 12:47 PM |
| 2010-06-15 12:55 PM in reply to: #2923043 |
Elite 3315 Miami | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? if you tested LT before, your LT stays the same, your body gets faster.... |
| 2010-06-15 1:20 PM in reply to: #2923043 |
Pro 6582  Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? eklung05 - 2010-06-15 1:29 PM I tried out training with an HRM about two months ago, and I really like it. I've never been able to find that sweet spot that lets me train without running out of air after a mile, and I'm up to 6 miles for my long runs at about 171 beats per minute (158 was supposed to be my aerobic max, but I find that 171 is a comfortable max for me to run for an hour at a time...once I hit 172, I start to cramp and feel like I need to stop). If I'm training this way, should I be getting faster at 171 beats per minute, or should my "comfortable" max be getting higher? Like, for example, if running for an hour at 171 is a 10:00/mile pace, should I be expecting to eventually be able to do 9:30's at 171? Or should I eventually get comfortable doing my hour at 175? I realized the other day that while I definitely feel like I'm improving and my confidence is soaring, I'm not completely sure what the goal of this type of training is. I'm used to just running all out for as long as I can five days a week and hoping someday I can run farther than I used to be able to (i.e., not at all organized). Sounds like you really need to find your training zones. Have you read this BT article? (btw this is the thread related to that article) And yes, with proper training you will eventually run a faster pace at the same HR, for a duration that will extend as you become fitter. HR creeps will always set in (at same pace the HR will continue to slowly climb), that is why learning to run with RPE is also important. Running "all out for as long as I can" may lead to injury and plateau. In fact I use to do this back when I starting in 03, yes I did get fater and did get injured and did plateau! There are many avenues to increasing your run fitness, Hal Hidgon, Runnersworld, McMillian, etc, all have training programs/guides for novice to advance runners. |
| 2010-06-15 1:22 PM in reply to: #2923043 |
Master 1367 Dirt Road | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? eklung05 - 2010-06-15 1:29 PM I tried out training with an HRM about two months ago, and I really like it. I've never been able to find that sweet spot that lets me train without running out of air after a mile, and I'm up to 6 miles for my long runs at about 171 beats per minute (158 was supposed to be my aerobic max, but I find that 171 is a comfortable max for me to run for an hour at a time...once I hit 172, I start to cramp and feel like I need to stop). If I'm training this way, should I be getting faster at 171 beats per minute, or should my "comfortable" max be getting higher? Like, for example, if running for an hour at 171 is a 10:00/mile pace, should I be expecting to eventually be able to do 9:30's at 171? Or should I eventually get comfortable doing my hour at 175? I realized the other day that while I definitely feel like I'm improving and my confidence is soaring, I'm not completely sure what the goal of this type of training is. I'm used to just running all out for as long as I can five days a week and hoping someday I can run farther than I used to be able to (i.e., not at all organized). Yes |
| 2010-06-15 1:24 PM in reply to: #2923043 |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? I am NOT an experienced runner/triathlete. But, I did start like you....wearing the monitor. In my VERY humble opinion.......you're running too hard on your long run. I dropped the monitor and go by feel, now (not scientific, but, it's working). I'm running faster with the same intensity I did 2mos. ago. I run specific routes and time them every time out. With the exception of a couple (sometimes just 1) short runs ea. wk......I run at a pace which would allow me to carry on a conversation. Admittedly, I push that a little throughout my runs. But, I hope my HR (I'll soon be 46) is never in that (170+) range on my long(er) runs (similar to yours). I sure hope Scout chimes in, here. He's helped me, tremendously. Good luck. jeff |
| 2010-06-15 2:01 PM in reply to: #2923043 |
Pro 4353 Wallingford, PA | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? After training for a while, you will find that your pace will be faster at a given level of effort. However, if your logs are accurate, don't expect to see much improvement until you're doing quite a bit more running than you are doing now. After you have built up to a solid running base of 15+ miles of running per week at an easy effort for a few months, then you should do some field testing to determine what your heart rate zones for training should be. This article does a good job of explaining how to do that. Until then, just run at what feels like an easy effort. It sounds like your effort level might be a bit on the high side. You should be able to speak in complete sentences when running at an easy effort. If you can't do that, you're going too fast. I know it's difficult to hold yourself back, but if you take the time to build slowly at an appropriate effort, it will pay off in the long run (no pun intended.....)  |
| 2010-06-15 2:19 PM in reply to: #2923043 |
Expert 2555 Colorado Springs, Colorado | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? The goal of HR training is to allow you to run a given pace at a lower HR as training progresses. So that 10 min pace at 171 should be a 10 min pace at 160 as you become more fit. Additionally, the pace you can maintain at a given HR should get faster as well. For most training purposes HR should be in a zone at which you could hold a conversation. HR training is not typically designed to always run at the maximum HR a person can hold for a long period. In fact, running at a high HR at a hard effort all the time is an almost sure fire way to burn out, get injured, or make little improvement. There are some good articles on BT for HR training. There are also some books that explain it in more detail. In order to derive the most benefit, you should take the time to learn more about it rather than asking people with incomplete knowledge. |
| 2010-06-15 2:22 PM in reply to: #2923444 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? ^^x2 what Don said. A HR monitor is simply a pacing/effort indicator. You can use it, or RPE, or pace, whatever. The point is to moderate and manage effort so that you can slowly and safely build up fitness. |
| 2010-06-15 2:26 PM in reply to: #2923244 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? nc452010 - 2010-06-15 12:24 PM I am NOT an experienced runner/triathlete. But, I did start like you....wearing the monitor. In my VERY humble opinion.......you're running too hard on your long run. I dropped the monitor and go by feel, now (not scientific, but, it's working). I'm running faster with the same intensity I did 2mos. ago. I run specific routes and time them every time out. With the exception of a couple (sometimes just 1) short runs ea. wk......I run at a pace which would allow me to carry on a conversation. Admittedly, I push that a little throughout my runs. But, I hope my HR (I'll soon be 46) is never in that (170+) range on my long(er) runs That's perfectly fine, just keep in mind a HR monitor can also be used on the bike to great effect and as such is a great single tool you can use to help your training and racing. |
| 2010-06-15 2:59 PM in reply to: #2923043 |
Expert 1066 Raleigh | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? Maybe I'm weird, but I just analyzed about 6 months worth on my own run data, and while I have gotten a bit faster, my heart rate has definitely slowed at the same pace as 6 month prior. |
| 2010-06-15 3:11 PM in reply to: #2923578 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? titeloops - 2010-06-15 3:59 PM Maybe I'm weird, but I just analyzed about 6 months worth on my own run data, and while I have gotten a bit faster, my heart rate has definitely slowed at the same pace as 6 month prior. That is what should be happening. Either your pace gets faster at the same HR, or your HR is lower at the same pace. ETA: I phrased this poorly. It's the same thing, just a different view. The same pace at a lower HR is functionally the same as a faster pace at the same HR. I think that makes more sense. I hope. Edited by Scout7 2010-06-15 3:13 PM |
| 2010-06-15 4:31 PM in reply to: #2923043 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? If I understand right, the OP says they started using the HRM 2 months ago. Is that enough time to see a noticable difference in HR at a given pace? Running 3-4 times per week, I notice improvements over periods of months, not weeks. |
| 2010-06-15 7:29 PM in reply to: #2923829 |
Regular 62 Fort Bragg, NC | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? All of this makes sense. I have only been using the heart rate monitor for two months, but the reason I started using it was to help me organize my training by keeping track a little bit better. I started with just 180 - my age to get my original aerobic threshold, but I read that this should only be a guideline. I pushed it up to 171 because that's, believe it or not, the HR that I feel comfortable running for an hour while relaxing and maintaining a conversation. I am only 23 years old, so I think my HR can go a little higher than what sounds normal (I max out at 100% effort at around 225). You are all right - I should do more speed work and intervals and pay more attention to my splits, but I'm trying to work on confidence with higher mileage by using the HRM to actually slow me down enough to complete the higher mileage. I was just wondering what I should be expecting to see as my training progresses. |
| 2010-06-15 7:52 PM in reply to: #2923043 |
| Veteran 288 | Subject: RE: Should I be getting faster or my HR be getting slower? I've been using an HR monitor for a couple years to keep from running too fast in my everyday running. I do very little speed work and never any interval training and have increased my pace very noticeably for the same heart rate. I wouldn't do much if any speed work till you get a decent running base going for 6 months to a year. I'm not sure how soon you will see much improvement if you run low miles, once you can get your miles up to at least 20 - 25 miles a week there will be some decent improvements. |
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