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Second Thoughts..BIG TIME (Page 2)
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 2010-06-25 2:28 PM in reply to: #2944228 |
Master  2372   |  Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIMEaquageek - 2010-06-25 1:20 PM The flip side is that about 80% of triathletes are abyssmal swimmers so you won't do any worse than most people, and half of them will be in a blind panic as well - the ole comfort in numbers scenario. I guess if you are racing IM 70.3 Mariana Trench, then yes you'd be right here. The thought that half of tri swimmers are in a state of pure panic is, of course, ridiculous. The panic/chaos of the swim can easily be mitigated by starting on the outside and/or waiting 45 seconds after the start for the field to clear. OP simply needs to get in 6-7 OW sessions to get comfortable. I would recommend doing sighting drills. This does two things - it gives you confidence that you can make your way around the course and on race day gives you something to concentrate on. If you are so busy making sure you pass each buoy in turn a sprint swim will be over in no time. |
| 2010-06-25 2:53 PM in reply to: #2943671 |
| Member 63 | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME The advice to start on the outside or start 45-60 secs after your wave is pretty terrible advice. First off, if you start way on the outside all you are doing is swimming longer in the race. Second, in both scenarios, you will inevitably get caught by the faster swimmers in the wave behind you. Faster swimmers are ruthless and fairly single-minded. If you can muster the fortitude to do the swim and feel safe doing it, just start a bit behind your wave but not more than 15-20 secs. The wave will probably quickly leave you and you'll be fine. If however, your wave is the last wave, starting 1 minute back is actually a great idea. |
| 2010-06-25 2:58 PM in reply to: #2943671 |
Veteran 129 Chicago | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME All the advice about just getting more acclimated to the open water is good. Try just doing an easy breast stroke with your head out to get comfortable just being away from land / touchable bottom. What I'd really like to point out, though, is that you shouldn't throw in the towel without trying. You'd be surprised just how high your adrenaline can spike when the starting horn blares and just how far that can push you. And if you do panic during the race, stop and tread water, collect yourself, and try try again. If it becomes to much, put a hand up in the air and take yourself out of the race. A DNS is worse than a DNF in my book. |
| 2010-06-25 3:04 PM in reply to: #2943671 |
| Member 63 | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME I wouldn't put toe one in that water if you feel you can't make it. DNS is a lot smarter than DNF in the swim if you can't do it safely. The water is no place to mess around with inadequate preparation. Safety first, always. |
| 2010-06-25 3:07 PM in reply to: #2944511 |
Elite 3090 Spokane, WA | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME tpero - 2010-06-25 2:58 PM All the advice about just getting more acclimated to the open water is good. Try just doing an easy breast stroke with your head out to get comfortable just being away from land / touchable bottom. What I'd really like to point out, though, is that you shouldn't throw in the towel without trying. You'd be surprised just how high your adrenaline can spike when the starting horn blares and just how far that can push you. And if you do panic during the race, stop and tread water, collect yourself, and try try again. If it becomes to much, put a hand up in the air and take yourself out of the race. A DNS is worse than a DNF in my book. Exactly. You're actually safer during the event than during OW training--considering all the support on the course in boats and kayaks. That's why I disagree with the posts that say it wouldn't be safe for her to race.
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| 2010-06-25 3:09 PM in reply to: #2944495 |
Master 2372 | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME aquageek - 2010-06-25 2:53 PM The advice to start on the outside or start 45-60 secs after your wave is pretty terrible advice. First off, if you start way on the outside all you are doing is swimming longer in the race. Second, in both scenarios, you will inevitably get caught by the faster swimmers in the wave behind you. Faster swimmers are ruthless and fairly single-minded. If you can muster the fortitude to do the swim and feel safe doing it, just start a bit behind your wave but not more than 15-20 secs. The wave will probably quickly leave you and you'll be fine. Please quit with the willy contest. I don't care and the parsing of advice here over 25 seconds of starting time does the OP no good. Starting a bit later than the wave you are in (assuming this is the style of start - it could be a time trial start for all we know) is good. Starting a bit further out to get out of the crush is good too. It really isn't that much farther - trigonometry of small angles and all that. |
| 2010-06-25 3:16 PM in reply to: #2944538 |
| Member 63 | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME sand101 - 2010-06-25 3:09 PM aquageek - 2010-06-25 2:53 PM The advice to start on the outside or start 45-60 secs after your wave is pretty terrible advice. First off, if you start way on the outside all you are doing is swimming longer in the race. Second, in both scenarios, you will inevitably get caught by the faster swimmers in the wave behind you. Faster swimmers are ruthless and fairly single-minded. If you can muster the fortitude to do the swim and feel safe doing it, just start a bit behind your wave but not more than 15-20 secs. The wave will probably quickly leave you and you'll be fine. Please quit with the willy contest. I don't care and the parsing of advice here over 25 seconds of starting time does the OP no good. Starting a bit later than the wave you are in (assuming this is the style of start - it could be a time trial start for all we know) is good. Starting a bit further out to get out of the crush is good too. It really isn't that much farther - trigonometry of small angles and all that. I gave what I believe to be honest advice based on experience. To me, 25 seconds is not parsing in the least, that's a huge chunk of time, especially time standing still. How about you stand in T1 for 25 seconds as person after person leaves. That's my point. I've been in enough tris and OW races in the past two decades to know a bad idea when I see it. Maybe you can explain how starting 1 minute behind to avoid the crush is a good idea when she will get crushed in 500 meters by the next wave (provided it's not a TT start of course). 25 seconds in my last tri +/- from my finishing spot represented 15 places, no thanks on standing still. Edited by aquageek 2010-06-25 3:20 PM |
| 2010-06-25 3:16 PM in reply to: #2943671 |
Expert 1053 Culpeper, VA | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME Sounds like you need a few more OWS. After a winter spent in a pool hitting open water the first time took me a few minutes. Key for you is going to be finding something to help you relax... sounds like you're a decent swimmer, just not comfortable for some reason in open water. Maybe some positive visualization... you're in the lake gliding along, breathing easy, having a great time sort of thing? |
| 2010-06-25 4:27 PM in reply to: #2943671 |
Veteran 252 | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME Are you doing the distance ok in the pool? Sounds to me like a typical OWS panic. It is very different from a pool and takes some getting used to.You need some more practice sessions in open water. You still have a couple weeks to get over the panic feeling. Dont give up hope yet. |
| 2010-06-25 4:32 PM in reply to: #2943731 |
Veteran 252 | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME tkd.teacher - 2010-06-25 11:11 AM 3leftys - 2010-06-25 8:56 AM I had my second attempt at swimming in OW this morning and I suck! I had my triathlete girlfriend along with me who is an amazing swimmer and my other girlfriend who is a newbie like me..but much better in the water than I am. Our sprint Tri is July 18th & after this morning & after shedding a few frustrated tears( yeah, I am girl) , I am seriously thinking that after 7 months of learning how to swim & 6 lessons, I am not ready!! I am a runner & I think pretty fit so I cannot even express how frustrating this is for me. I couldn"t even swim 1/4 of a mile without getting myself in a frenzy & begin to panic. I was also getting a little dizzy. I was breathing out in the water & not holding my breath at all. I just didn't like the feeling of being out there. It was a lake swim this morning. So for those experienced BT's out there..should I not do this on 7/18--do I need more lessons..more time or should I HTFU??? Not to worry. OWS worry/panic is normal. Temperature differences + the motion can cause dizziness, which feeds into nervousness, which spirals downward. I would get as much OWS experience as I could, try it with ear plugs and a good cap. If you get dizzy/panicky, do sidestroke, breaststroke, backstroke, or just float for a bit. If you absolutely have to, you can swim "boat to boat" on the course. As long as you don't get forward progress, nothing wrong with hanging on a boat for a minute to calm yourself. You can do this, just get some more time in open water. John My experienced girlfriend is bringing me ear plugs to help me out..She said that may help my dizziness. You are right,the dizziness lead to nervousness which led to "I can't do this" in the water!! Thanks for the advice!! |
| 2010-06-25 4:39 PM in reply to: #2943671 |
Expert 1095 C-bus | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME I tried to read through to see if this was asked before, but what kind of a start is your swim? Is it a deep water start? Is it deep at all? While I am comfortable in the water (I grew up near Lake Erie), my first tri was along a beachfront where it was only chest deep at the deepest part. I know this was an attractive feature that brought many people to making this their first tri. If something happened or panic set in, they could stand at any time. Hopefully, this will be your situation--shallow water! If it's deep water, like everyone said, splash around, get used to treading. You're tough! You can do this!!! I wish you the best! |
| 2010-06-25 4:41 PM in reply to: #2944733 |
Extreme Veteran 3177 | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME 3leftys - 2010-06-25 2:27 PM Are you doing the distance ok in the pool? Sounds to me like a typical OWS panic. It is very different from a pool and takes some getting used to.You need some more practice sessions in open water. You still have a couple weeks to get over the panic feeling. Dont give up hope yet. My best suggestion mirrors what others have said - spend more time in OWS swimming conditions (safely of course with others around.) Get used to the feeling of waves (which can cause disorientation or naseau). relax and enjoy. If you have never spent much time out swimming and playing in Open water conditions you need to learn to do that. On your next swim set a goal. swim for 50 strokes, then stop and tread water and look around, get your bearings and make sure your breathing is under control or flip over and float on your back or backstroke for a bit again with the goal of making sure your breathing is ok. After a minute or so of that, go again. Gradually increase the distance between stops and you will hopefully notice a difference. Do you know if you panic comes about due to the motion, not seeing the bottom, seeing underwater plant growth that is freaking you out? No matter what good luck and get out there and swim! |
| 2010-06-25 4:55 PM in reply to: #2943671 |
| , Arizona | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME I had the same experience my first couple of open water swims. I could do the distance in the pool (poorly), but when I got out into the lake panic set it and I couldn't more than 25m before stopping. For me it was a combination of factors that led to overcoming it, the biggest of course was do as much OWS as I could, wearing a swim cap over my ears, going as slow as I could, and focusing only on being relaxed rather than going fast. Before you know it you will be comfortable and ready to go, and you have plenty of time to get there! They may be some pre-race panic, but if you can do it in pratice you can do it in the race. Keep up the good work! Also, sand101's advice is very good advice, waiting for your wave to go first will ensure you don't get pumelled on the swim and will have an easier time finding your groove. If people do catch up to you from the next wave they will be spread out and will avoid you by the time they reach you, so don't worry. You don't have to wait long, just start at the end of the pack. Starting to the side of the pack is also good advice (sorry aquageek, the math doesn't agree with your opinion). If you started 50m to the right or left of the pack and the first bouy is 400m out you would swim an additional 3m, which is not a big deal. |
| 2010-06-25 5:03 PM in reply to: #2944754 |
Veteran 252 | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME sungirl919 - 2010-06-25 4:39 PM I tried to read through to see if this was asked before, but what kind of a start is your swim? Is it a deep water start? Is it deep at all? While I am comfortable in the water (I grew up near Lake Erie), my first tri was along a beachfront where it was only chest deep at the deepest part. I know this was an attractive feature that brought many people to making this their first tri. If something happened or panic set in, they could stand at any time. Hopefully, this will be your situation--shallow water! If it's deep water, like everyone said, splash around, get used to treading. You're tough! You can do this!!! I wish you the best! It is a beach start & I am not sure how far out we go before we turn. That would probably help my mental game if its not in deep water but who knows. I tend to be more relaxed when I swim along shore . I guess it is practice..practice..practice. Loving all the support here!! Patti |
| 2010-06-26 1:23 PM in reply to: #2943671 |
Regular 79 Yuma, AZ. | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME I am in no way a great swimmer, but would say to get yourself a wetsuit and your confidence will go up. Keep working at it you should be okay. Let us all know how it goes. |
| 2010-06-26 7:24 PM in reply to: #2943794 |
Master 2426 Central Indiana | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME DiOnMaui - 2010-06-25 12:27 PM Grab a boogie board or a kickboard and just go out for a "play" swim. Try to pinpoint your fear - is it really your inability to swim the distance, things lurking in the water, or just early "race-day" anxiety? If you can swim the distance (or more) in the pool, then you will be OK. +1 on the "play" part. I've only been swimming "seriously" for ~18mo. Only did 1 true OWS (lake swim) last year in a sprint. This Spring signed up for my 1st HIM (Muncie, IN) & I was getting nervous reading about how "choppy" the water was last year. Luckily I had to go to Hawaii (Waikiki) 2 mo ago on business. Looked at that ocean & the waves & thought I could NEVER swim in that. But I had to at least visit the beach. Wading turned into "look at those fishes!!". On go the swim goggles & I'm suddenly in the water----swimming!!! During my few days there I began swimming in 3-4 ft waves beyond the breakwater to follow those schools of pretty fish. Learned a lot by trial and error, but in the end feel much more comfortable in OWS. Guess what- the "chop" of an inland Midwest lake ain't intimidating any more. Stick with it and make it FUN with a raft, boogie board, fins, or whatever. Play can be a great way to relax in the water. Edited by Oldteen 2010-06-26 7:27 PM |
| 2010-06-26 7:51 PM in reply to: #2945810 |
| 2010-06-27 8:10 AM in reply to: #2945521 |
Veteran 252 | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME jndlpr - 2010-06-26 1:23 PM I am in no way a great swimmer, but would say to get yourself a wetsuit and your confidence will go up. Keep working at it you should be okay. Let us all know how it goes. I have a wetsuit & have worn it in the last two OWS I did. I actually like the way it feels. Plan on doing a few OWS this week..Wish me luck! Patti |
| 2010-06-27 8:47 AM in reply to: #2943722 |
Expert 1019 Muncie, IN | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME arcee52 - 2010-06-25 12:08 PM Where you using a wetsuit? This will give you a lot of confidence. Also when you were training for swimming, where you training on a 50 meter pool. This is the best simulation of OW swimming. You can do the race but you have to have a game plan. Are you planning to go all out without stopping? You should have a game plan like freestyle for 25 meters then back stroke a bit or doggy paddle/breast stroke combo then back to freestyle. The wetsuit was actually the problem for me. Once I swam open water in my trisuit instead of the wetsuit, I was OK. It is restricting and the last thing you want to feel while in the water is that you can't move. |
| 2010-06-28 12:18 PM in reply to: #2943671 |
Veteran 252 | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME UPDATE:Had my 3rd OWS today with a bunch of veteran Triathletes this morning..one of these ladies saw me freak out on Friday so she knew I had to get comfortable out there. I had a much better swim..she had me strap a boogie board to my ankel "just in case". My heart didn't race this time although on the swim back, I did have problems sighting. When I lifted my head to sight, I had a hard time getting back into a rhythm. Also, the last few 100 yds, I breatstroked & backstroked. A plus also was that they had me swim in the middle on the way back so that I would experience that chaotic splashing & what not. I have a great support group & great girlfriends so I feel so lucky. So the jury is still out..Going back to the pool tomorrow & OW Wed & Thursday!! I am also channeling Nemo on all of my swims!!  Patti |
| 2010-06-28 12:31 PM in reply to: #2948335 |
Veteran 165 Whispering Pines, NC | Subject: RE: Second Thoughts..BIG TIME 3leftys - 2010-06-28 12:18 PM UPDATE:Had my 3rd OWS today with a bunch of veteran Triathletes this morning..one of these ladies saw me freak out on Friday so she knew I had to get comfortable out there. I had a much better swim..she had me strap a boogie board to my ankel "just in case". My heart didn't race this time although on the swim back, I did have problems sighting. When I lifted my head to sight, I had a hard time getting back into a rhythm. Also, the last few 100 yds, I breatstroked & backstroked. A plus also was that they had me swim in the middle on the way back so that I would experience that chaotic splashing & what not. I have a great support group & great girlfriends so I feel so lucky. So the jury is still out..Going back to the pool tomorrow & OW Wed & Thursday!! I am also channeling Nemo on all of my swims!! Patti Great Job Patti!!!!! When my coach took me out for OWS, he told me that I may panic once the race began. So, we started swimming and his friends started the OW chaos of thrashing about and he then pulled my ankle and told me to tread water. I didn't understand but I did it and he showed me that I could tread water, control my breathing, and get my head focused. During my race I did have to tread water but because we went over it and drilled it, it was no big deal. I knew I was not going to podium, even if all the stars aligned and I was having my best day...lol...so taking my time and treading the water wasn't going to hurt anything. I'm really glad you are going through the ows training...you will appreciate it soooooo much once the race starts!! Good luck and keep us posted!!  Laurie |
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