General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Upper body during run... Rss Feed  
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2010-07-03 5:34 PM

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Subject: Upper body during run...
I tried a different technique while running last night.  For the longest time I have been running with my pelvis pushed back a bit...butt sticking out just a bit and my legs just turned over without much power..if that makes sense.  Last night I tilted my pelvis just a little forward and the best way I can describe it is my hips opened and I was able to push off a bit and have more forward momentum that way.  It also made me stand up a little taller and made breathing much easier for me.  Not sure if that's right, but it seemed to work??  I noticed that my shoulders get tight...kind of like they are up to my ears, but of course they aren't.  I keep them tense and I run like I have invisible lat syndrome!  My elbows stick out and my hands almost touch.  Should my elbows be more to my side???  
I also just got done with a brick and do believe I need to invent freakin ice underwear!!!  I'm just sayin...
Laurie  Kiss 


2010-07-03 5:37 PM
in reply to: #2959965

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Subject: RE: Upper body during run...
Relax your arms and shoulders.  Tensing will lead to fatigue.  Keep your hands kind of low, your arms loose, and your hands relaxed like you're holding a potato chip between your index finger and thumb.
2010-07-03 8:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Upper body during run...
Thanks for responding...do you keep your elbows close to your side??
2010-07-03 8:53 PM
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Subject: RE: Upper body during run...
Elbows in toward your sides; arms bent at the elbows 90º or less; hands relaxed; arms should move forward and not across your center line.  That's how I run.  Try this drill to relax your upper body - turn your palms up toward the sky.  I do this and it helps to relax my shoulders and lats.

What you described about your hips sounds good.  I like to think about leading my run with my hips. 
2010-07-03 9:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Upper body during run...
zia_cyclist - 2010-07-03 8:53 PM Elbows in toward your sides; arms bent at the elbows 90º or less; hands relaxed; arms should move forward and not across your center line.  That's how I run.  Try this drill to relax your upper body - turn your palms up toward the sky.  I do this and it helps to relax my shoulders and lats.

What you described about your hips sounds good.  I like to think about leading my run with my hips. 


All I kept hearing was to keep my upper body "quiet" and had NO idea how to do that!  Thank you so much for giving me a drill to do.  I will try that on Monday during my next run!
Thanks again,
Laurie 
2010-07-03 11:05 PM
in reply to: #2959965

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Subject: RE: Upper body during run...
Yes about the pelvis thing!  In my highschool cross-country days, I would often go for runs with my dad (he was an awesome runner until he tore his meniscus).  Anyway, he would always tell me to imagine that there was a grocery cart right in front of me.  Instead of using your hands to push the grocery cart, imagine you can only use your hips to push the cart straight and smooth.


2010-07-06 6:14 AM
in reply to: #2959965

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Subject: RE: Upper body during run...
For what it's worth, my elbows stick out, and I've never had a problem. Plus, in crowded races, it tends to keep people away, so bonus there.
2010-07-06 8:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Upper body during run...
laurie2829 - 2010-07-03 5:34 PM I tried a different technique while running last night.  For the longest time I have been running with my pelvis pushed back a bit...butt sticking out just a bit and my legs just turned over without much power..if that makes sense.  Last night I tilted my pelvis just a little forward and the best way I can describe it is my hips opened and I was able to push off a bit and have more forward momentum that way.  It also made me stand up a little taller and made breathing much easier for me.  Not sure if that's right, but it seemed to work??  I noticed that my shoulders get tight...kind of like they are up to my ears, but of course they aren't.  I keep them tense and I run like I have invisible lat syndrome!  My elbows stick out and my hands almost touch.  Should my elbows be more to my side???  
I also just got done with a brick and do believe I need to invent freakin ice underwear!!!  I'm just sayin...
Laurie  Kiss 


What's interesting about running bio-mechanics is that there is no one way to run. I see people suggesting stride in this way, run with this shoes or keep your arms at certain degrees but the reality is that if you look at the way the best elite runners you will notice many show unorthodox ways to running yet they excel because is the best way for each of them to run.

There is a study in which they asked some of the best running coaches in the world to analyse the gait of some of the best elite runners but they only showed the lower body so they couldn't tell who was the runner. They mixed elite and not elite runners. The result; all responses were different, what some coaches deemed as good 'form' was criticized as bad from others and many criticized the style of some of the best runner while seemingly appreciate some of those non-elite.

This means that in terms of giving advice and attempting providing a sound opinion regarding their 'form' by just looking at a runners stride/gait/position, without other information, testing and tools (i.e. economy, motion capture, etc.) it is very difficult to provide advice that might help a particular runner. What works for some, like "I run in this way and it helps me" might in fact produce a negative result for someone else.

The point is, keep on running, be mindful of what changes you do that seem to enhance your running and eventually you'll find what works best for you.

Edited by JorgeM 2010-07-06 8:54 AM
2010-07-06 9:43 AM
in reply to: #2962909

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Subject: RE: Upper body during run...
JorgeM - 2010-07-06 7:52 AM
laurie2829 - 2010-07-03 5:34 PM I tried a different technique while running last night.  For the longest time I have been running with my pelvis pushed back a bit...butt sticking out just a bit and my legs just turned over without much power..if that makes sense.  Last night I tilted my pelvis just a little forward and the best way I can describe it is my hips opened and I was able to push off a bit and have more forward momentum that way.  It also made me stand up a little taller and made breathing much easier for me.  Not sure if that's right, but it seemed to work??  I noticed that my shoulders get tight...kind of like they are up to my ears, but of course they aren't.  I keep them tense and I run like I have invisible lat syndrome!  My elbows stick out and my hands almost touch.  Should my elbows be more to my side???  
I also just got done with a brick and do believe I need to invent freakin ice underwear!!!  I'm just sayin...
Laurie  Kiss 


What's interesting about running bio-mechanics is that there is no one way to run. I see people suggesting stride in this way, run with this shoes or keep your arms at certain degrees but the reality is that if you look at the way the best elite runners you will notice many show unorthodox ways to running yet they excel because is the best way for each of them to run.

There is a study in which they asked some of the best running coaches in the world to analyse the gait of some of the best elite runners but they only showed the lower body so they couldn't tell who was the runner. They mixed elite and not elite runners. The result; all responses were different, what some coaches deemed as good 'form' was criticized as bad from others and many criticized the style of some of the best runner while seemingly appreciate some of those non-elite.

This means that in terms of giving advice and attempting providing a sound opinion regarding their 'form' by just looking at a runners stride/gait/position, without other information, testing and tools (i.e. economy, motion capture, etc.) it is very difficult to provide advice that might help a particular runner. What works for some, like "I run in this way and it helps me" might in fact produce a negative result for someone else.

The point is, keep on running, be mindful of what changes you do that seem to enhance your running and eventually you'll find what works best for you.


Jorge,  I completely agree with you regarding changes to stride. 

However, would you agree that no matter what the exact movement is that relaxing the arms/shoulders would still be important?  For example, I tend to run with a slightly more than 90 degree angle in my elbows and slightly cross body but my hands/arms/shoulders are relaxed as I do it so while not text book perfect form it doesn't seem to negatively affect my run most of the time.  Although on long runs (8+ miles) I'm noticing some tenderness in my forearms after the run so I'm trying to remain concious of what I'm doing toward the end of tough runs to see what I'm doing differently.  I suspect that as I fatigue elsewhere I'm tensing up my upper body.   
2010-07-06 10:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Upper body during run...
I don't wanna hijack this thread, as it's great info..  But, has anyone ever checked their HR monitor to discern differences between upper body tension and upper body relaxation?  I did, last week.  But, I'm wondering if it could have been random.  I'm gonna watch it, going forward.
2010-07-06 12:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Upper body during run...
JorgeM - 2010-07-06 6:52 AM [
What's interesting about running bio-mechanics is that there is no one way to run. I see people suggesting stride in this way, run with this shoes or keep your arms at certain degrees but the reality is that if you look at the way the best elite runners you will notice many show unorthodox ways to running yet they excel because is the best way for each of them to run.


Elites...decent MOP runners...what-have-you...watch a lot of runners in any big race and you'll see a lot of different styles of arm carriage.  No real right or wrong...definitely no prescribed elbow angle.

One of the first posts in the thread nailed it, IMO:  It's all about relaxation.  As you run (or even as you go through your daily life), check in from time to time to try to identify what muscles are tensed in your upper body and then make an effort to let go of that tension.  Neck and shoulders are key--a lot of what happens with your arms is driven by what's happening in how you are carrying your head, neck, and shoulders.  If you catch your chin jutting forward or even upward, for example, you may find that you're carrying tension in your shoulders, compressing your neck, and constricting freedom of motion in your arm carriage...it's all part of one big dynamic system and if you block any part of it, the whole thing works less than at its best.

Only other thing to really look out for is really exaggerated arm swings across the midline of your body:  That just works against efficient forward motion.


2010-07-06 2:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Upper body during run...
Thanks for all the suggestions and comments.  I know I'll be starting to hit longer distances in the run and I didn't want to find out then that I had formed bad habits.  I know I run with my arms crossing my center ALL the time..like I said, my hands almost touch while running.  I will try some of the suggestions and see if they loosen my shoulders.  Smile
Thanks again,
Laurie 
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