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2010-07-28 8:26 AM

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Elite
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Quebec, Canada
Subject: Swimming question, for the expert swimmers/coaches
For the last two weeks we started swimming without a wetsuit at the lake for our open water swim. I do not have a ton of workouts to compare, but the last 3 times that we went to the lake I was swimming between 2:20 to 2:30/100 meters. Usually when I put my wetsuit I swim around 2:00/100. Yeah I know I am a slow swimmer but I try to get better I swear

Now this morning we went and my friend had a wetsuit and I had not, so I decided to put my fins on to have a better chance to stay with him during the swim.

Now to my biggest surprise I swam 1:44/100. I understand that swimming with fins is faster than without, but I always thought that I would swim about the same speed as when I have my wetsuit. 

Anyway, my question is, if I can get like 40 to 50 second faster per 100 with fins do you guys have any ideas what kind of drills I should work on in the pool. Does the fact that swimming that much faster when adding fins gives enough of an indication of where is my biggest flaw in the pool?

Thank you in advance.

Edited by rlejeune 2010-07-28 8:35 AM


2010-07-28 9:44 AM
in reply to: #3009289

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Regular
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Subject: RE: Swimming question, for the expert swimmers/coaches
I'm no expert or coach but I would venture a guess that maybe your legs are dragging when you don't have the wetsuit or fins on.  Try swimming with a pull bouy and if you are still faster then maybe that is your problem.
2010-07-28 9:56 AM
in reply to: #3009289

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Elite
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Gilbert, Az.
Subject: RE: Swimming question, for the expert swimmers/coaches
rlejeune - 2010-07-28 6:26 AM For the last two weeks we started swimming without a wetsuit at the lake for our open water swim. I do not have a ton of workouts to compare, but the last 3 times that we went to the lake I was swimming between 2:20 to 2:30/100 meters. Usually when I put my wetsuit I swim around 2:00/100. Yeah I know I am a slow swimmer but I try to get better I swear

Now this morning we went and my friend had a wetsuit and I had not, so I decided to put my fins on to have a better chance to stay with him during the swim.

Now to my biggest surprise I swam 1:44/100. I understand that swimming with fins is faster than without, but I always thought that I would swim about the same speed as when I have my wetsuit. 

Anyway, my question is, if I can get like 40 to 50 second faster per 100 with fins do you guys have any ideas what kind of drills I should work on in the pool. Does the fact that swimming that much faster when adding fins gives enough of an indication of where is my biggest flaw in the pool?

Thank you in advance.


Probably a combination of things. If you are 20-30 seconds faster/100 with a wetsuit, then you have a pretty serious positional flaw, and you are not swimming on top of the water. Rather than being flat on the top of the water (---) you are swimming diagonally oriented ( / ). The wetsuit helps correct that by bringing your hips up, much like a pull buoy does.

That's most likely related to an ineffective kick, either inflexible ankles or kicking from the knees (or both). The fins will also help correct that, since it's almost impossible to have a weak kick while wearing fins.

So, my stab in the dark diagnosis is poor position in the water, most likely due to an ineffective kick, both of which are partially alleviated with the fins and/or wetsuit.

John
2010-07-28 10:00 AM
in reply to: #3009557

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Swimming question, for the expert swimmers/coaches
So my guess is that the kicking board is probably my best friend as far as drills in the pool?
2010-07-28 10:41 AM
in reply to: #3009570

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Subject: RE: Swimming question, for the expert swimmers/coaches
rlejeune - 2010-07-28 9:00 AM So my guess is that the kicking board is probably my best friend as far as drills in the pool?


I agree with the above post about a body position problem while in the water.

Actually kicking without a board would be more useful. It would force you to maintain body position while kicking, where the kickboard actually alters body position. Float on your front with your arms down at your side and focus on "balancing" (ie. trying to maintain a neutral body position and preventing your lower end from sinking). If it is too difficult you can raise your hands above your head to aid in balancing. Then focus on kicking from your hip with your entire leg. At the start its probably best to use fins for this (and a snorkel if you have one). Try to lift your head slowly to the side to breathe, if no snorkel, rather than lifting your head quickly up and down as this will disrupt body position.

Hope this helps?

ETA: You could also practice kicking on your side using the same kick with the entire leg concept and alternating the side every 25/50m. Imagine that a rod is running through your body to keep your body straight to avoid bending at the waist.



Edited by mndymond 2010-07-28 10:44 AM
2010-07-28 10:46 AM
in reply to: #3009289

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Modesto, California
Subject: RE: Swimming question, for the expert swimmers/coaches
Kickboards are used for fitness, strengthening the legs while doing kick sets. Right now a kickboard will not help you, it may even make your position worse. It sounds as though you need to work on balance. Doing drills to help with your balance will help get your body in a more streamline position, fins or without fins. You want to establish a great feel of what its like to have your body in a good position, at first it will feel akward, this is where you should start.


2010-07-28 10:47 AM
in reply to: #3009289

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Subject: RE: Swimming question, for the expert swimmers/coaches
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ytLCFcxpTQ&feature=related

This drill is with one arm up to help balance.
2010-07-28 10:56 AM
in reply to: #3009289

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: Swimming question, for the expert swimmers/coaches
I don't recommend what I call "toys" (pull buoys, kickboards, fins, paddles) for novice swimmers.

You look like a pretty fit guy, good runner and/or cyclist? It's very common to have inflexible ankles and be making something close to a "cycling" or "running" motion with your legs in the water instead of what a proper flutter kick looks like. (Matter of fact ... it can even make you go backward).

If you want to go the drill route, you've gotten some good recommendations. And I'm sure you've heard this before, but ... it's true ... lessons/coaching on swim form makes ALL the difference.

Or post a video for us
2010-07-28 11:04 AM
in reply to: #3009737

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Subject: RE: Swimming question, for the expert swimmers/coaches
I agree with the comment about kicking on your side for a while instead of the board.  It will help you acheive that straight line better versus the diaganol line mentioned earlier as well.   Plus, it is a great drill for swimming strength.  If you are really focusing on your best body position in the water, it can be a tough drill. 

Consider your head position as well.  If your hips are sinking into the water, make sure you aren't cranking your head up too high all the time. Instead, look down/somewhat in front of you for most of the time (in OWS, it's good to look up every once in a while obviously).  Really concentrate on your butt riding along the top of the water.  Also, try to stretch your ankles a lot after swimming so that your kick has a lot of umph on that part of your leg.  I have always swum significantly faster with fins partially because I have good ankle flexibility and that part of my kick propels me forward a fair amount.  When you add a fin to that, it is going to move more water so of course you're going to swim faster. 

Another drill I like to do to focus on overall body positioning is to swim three strokes and then hold my position on my side (an exagerrated roll) for a few seconds and then swim three more strokes and hold on the other side.  This drill is mainly done to work on rolling/rotating while you swim, but if you're really focusing on keeping your hips high and your kick strong it can help a lot.  It's very similar to the other drill, but goes faster since you get to pull as well.  Good luck!
2010-07-28 11:42 AM
in reply to: #3009289

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Swimming question, for the expert swimmers/coaches
Thank you everyone, I will try those drills and work on my positioning in the water!
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