Should I have gone back and said something?

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2010-08-02 10:00 AM

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Subject: Should I have gone back and said something?
Here's the scenario...

I'm out riding yesterday on a multi-use path marked down the middle with a yellow line. I'm doing somewhere in the vicinity of 23-24 mph when I spot a family (Mom, Dad, and Daughter) up ahead coming the other way. They are grouped up pretty good using the whole lane - but, staying on their side of the line. I slow to around 18-19 mph which feels like a comfortable speed to me to go by them. As I get closer, the little girl gets off balance and starts to swerve out into my lane in an attempt to recover. I start braking. As she moves further into my lane, I keep braking and moving to the right... eventually, she is completely in my lane, screaming (she thinks I am going to hit her). To avoid her I have to ride off the paved trail and into the dirty/sand where I go by her, turn back to the left, get back on the pavement, and continue my ride...

At no point during this incident was I in fear of hitting her.

So, as I went on, I replayed the incident in my head and wondered if I should have stopped and said something to the family / little girl? Not along the lines of "What the hell..." - they were doing better than most staying on their side and the little girl simply had a squirrely moment.. But, more along the lines of checking to see if everybody was OK (even though, physically, I knew they were).

So, what's the consensus? Should I have stopped?

2010-08-02 10:07 AM
in reply to: #3018095

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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
As long as she didnt go down I think you are good. Had she ate it,,,yes you should have stopped for sure out of courtesy.
2010-08-02 10:07 AM
in reply to: #3018095

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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
Hard call on that one. The parents could have gotten belligerent with you for "endangering" their daughter or there could have been hearty handshakes all around. The problem is there is no way of knowing.

Similar situations have happened to me and I stopped about 10 to 15 feet beyond them and made sure they were OK or that I wasn't trying to run anyone down, other times I just fire a "sorry" over my shoulder even if the encounter was their fault.

I try to live by my sig.

The 15 feet of space gives me time to get away if mama bear decides to charge but close enough to talk.
2010-08-02 10:08 AM
in reply to: #3018095

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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
Don't do speeds like that on a multi-use path!  All the multi-use paths near me are marked with a 10 mph bike limit, and that's because of stuff like this.

If you want to go that fast, please ride in the street where you belong. 

Multi-use paths are for families out on a stroll or very leisurely bike ride - not for training at high speeds.

Cheers, Chris

2010-08-02 10:11 AM
in reply to: #3018095

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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
I think you were fine.  You coming back making sure everyone was ok, while very considerate, might cause the kid to think it was a bigger issue than it was.  Example: kid skins knee and only starts crying when adult gets to them.  Not really a right answer, but I wouldn't worry about not coming back. 
2010-08-02 10:11 AM
in reply to: #3018123

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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?

That was my first instinct (although not all m-u paths have that speed limit around here...).    I run into that scenario a lot and slow down to about 12 mph when approaching a suspicious group.  In the end, it's much more fun to just head out, not to mention get better hill practice.

All that said, I wouldn't have stopped either since everyone was fine. 

Hydro - 2010-08-02 10:08 AM Don't do speeds like that on a multi-use path!  All the multi-use paths near me are marked with a 10 mph bike limit, and that's because of stuff like this.

If you want to go that fast, please ride in the street where you belong. 

Multi-use paths are for families out on a stroll or very leisurely bike ride - not for training at high speeds.

Cheers, Chris

2010-08-02 10:15 AM
in reply to: #3018134

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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
BikerGrrrl - 2010-08-02 10:11 AM

That was my first instinct (although not all m-u paths have that speed limit around here...).    I run into that scenario a lot and slow down to about 12 mph when approaching a suspicious group.  In the end, it's much more fun to just head out, not to mention get better hill practice.

All that said, I wouldn't have stopped either since everyone was fine. 

Hydro - 2010-08-02 10:08 AM Don't do speeds like that on a multi-use path!  All the multi-use paths near me are marked with a 10 mph bike limit, and that's because of stuff like this.

If you want to go that fast, please ride in the street where you belong. 

Multi-use paths are for families out on a stroll or very leisurely bike ride - not for training at high speeds.

Cheers, Chris



That must be an MN thing.  Here in DC, I have a to crush it to avoid being passed during a long ride on the W&OD.  The W&OD also has a gravel pavel along much of it for walkers, horses, runners and mtn bikes, although it is underused.
2010-08-02 10:18 AM
in reply to: #3018123

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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
Hydro - 2010-08-02 11:08 AM Don't do speeds like that on a multi-use path!  All the multi-use paths near me are marked with a 10 mph bike limit, and that's because of stuff like this.

If you want to go that fast, please ride in the street where you belong. 

Multi-use paths are for families out on a stroll or very leisurely bike ride - not for training at high speeds.

Cheers, Chris



I have to agree with ^ Chris.  Not only for the safety of the family but your own safety.  I was on a very family oriented bike path, family of 2 adults and about 4 kids coming towards me, took up the entire path.  I realized that the kids were not going to get out of my way whatsoever, no speed involved here on my end.  End result, I went down, not able to clip out (I was fairly new to clips at the time)to avoid head on collision with kids and ended up with a 2 inch gash in my right ankle!  I am now pretty much stay away from paths with kids unless I am just out for a very casual ride.  Funny, kids asked me if i was OK, parents seemed to not take notice what so ever!
2010-08-02 10:21 AM
in reply to: #3018123

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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
Hydro - 2010-08-02 8:08 AM

Don't do speeds like that on a multi-use path!  All the multi-use paths near me are marked with a 10 mph bike limit, and that's because of stuff like this.

If you want to go that fast, please ride in the street where you belong. 

Multi-use paths are for families out on a stroll or very leisurely bike ride - not for training at high speeds.

Cheers, Chris



Yep. MUPs around here are marked at 15 mph.

After a series of crashes over the spring, the cops are back enforcing that limit on a commonly used trail in Redmond. It's sort of surprising to a pair of bicycle cops alongside the trail with a radar gun. I hear anybody doing over 20 is getting a ticket.

As for your incident itself, I would have slowed to no faster than 10mph. Better safe than sorry. A friend of mine broke his collarbone and the kid broke his nose in a situation similar to the one you describe. Zig, zag, zig, zag, crash! The kid caused it, but the adult is expected to avoid the accident at all costs.

Once past safely, though, no obligation to stop.



Edited by brucemorgan 2010-08-02 10:23 AM
2010-08-02 10:23 AM
in reply to: #3018095

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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
MUPs scare the hell out of me. Between the six people all with headphones who are walking abreast and cannot hear you say, "EXCUSE ME" as you come up to your scenario to the old ladies with their 100' dog leashes that they let out the whole way and will not retrieve their dogs when a bike is coming up.

Personally I'd rather take my chances in traffic.

No, keeping on going was the right thing to do. There was no one hurt and no real accident, just a learning experience for the girl and you, if you let it be.
2010-08-02 10:26 AM
in reply to: #3018095

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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
I think it depends on what type of multi-use path you are on for whether road bikes should be on them or not. Some multi-use paths around Atlanta have a 10MPH limit and it's enforced and road bikes are discouraged. I've seen police patroling on bike and ticketing on them.

However, other more remote paths (ex Silver Comet out past where all the walkers are) you can go as fast as you like. It's still called a multi-use path, but you'll only see other fast bikers because it's too remote to have gotten out that far any other way.

2010-08-02 10:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
Hydro - 2010-08-02 9:08 AM Don't do speeds like that on a multi-use path!  All the multi-use paths near me are marked with a 10 mph bike limit, and that's because of stuff like this.

If you want to go that fast, please ride in the street where you belong. 

Multi-use paths are for families out on a stroll or very leisurely bike ride - not for training at high speeds.

Cheers, Chris


x2
though I think posted limit of 10mph is too slow...slowing down to 18 mph when approaching a family on the MUP is too fast.  sure you can handle the bike for what you see coming but you have no idea what this little girl is going to do.  you need too slow way down!

I've actually slowed down where I have unclipped in these situations.  I know what I would do if someone in spandex hit my kid.  I wouldn't have much tollerance for it.

2010-08-02 10:28 AM
in reply to: #3018164

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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
brucemorgan - 2010-08-02 9:21 AM
Hydro - 2010-08-02 8:08 AM Don't do speeds like that on a multi-use path!  All the multi-use paths near me are marked with a 10 mph bike limit, and that's because of stuff like this.

If you want to go that fast, please ride in the street where you belong. 

Multi-use paths are for families out on a stroll or very leisurely bike ride - not for training at high speeds.

Cheers, Chris

Yep. MUPs around here are marked at 15 mph. After a series of crashes over the spring, the cops are back enforcing that limit on a commonly used trail in Redmond. It's sort of surprising to a pair of bicycle cops alongside the trail with a radar gun. I hear anybody doing over 20 is getting a ticket. As for your incident itself, I would have slowed to no faster than 10mph. Better safe than sorry. A friend of mine broke his collarbone and the kid broke his nose in a situation similar to the one you describe. Zig, zag, zig, zag, crash! The kid caused it, but the adult is expected to avoid the accident at all costs. Once past safely, though, no obligation to stop.


I think around here they're marked at 15 as well.  20+ mph is just unreasonable on a path that will have small children, walkers, rollerbladers, dogs etc.  Way too much unpredictability.
2010-08-02 10:29 AM
in reply to: #3018095

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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
No, you need not go back, but parents should have said sorry for the little girl.  Where I am, you were in the right, as the path speed limit is 20mph for bikes (if you can run that fast, dang!).

I always slow way down passing dog walkers or kids, you just never know.  I'd feel like a jerk if I hit a kid no matter whose fault.
2010-08-02 10:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
As a father I would have chased you down and given you a solid thumping. No one care is YOU thought you might hit her, obviously she was scared. Have some consideration for the various ages of the users as well as the level of skill and comfort the other users have. (this should go for both parties though)

Aside from that, this type of behavior on your part gives cyclist a bad name.

Next time please slow down, smile and wave. I would like to think these trails are safe and fun for my family rides.

Edited by in2deep 2010-08-02 10:46 AM
2010-08-02 10:43 AM
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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
in2deep - 2010-08-02 9:39 AM As a father I would have chased you down and given you a solid thumping.


Seriously?

For someone going out of their lane into his? Remember, the family was going in the opposite direction. He wasn't going the same way and overtaking them. 

BTW, I'm almost 100% sure the path has no markings for speed. And there's many MANY times you get passed by the racers on there like you are standing still, no matter the speed you are going.  

2010-08-02 10:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
I missed that. Still these are multi user multi use type trails and people (again both parties) should be considerate.
2010-08-02 10:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
Thanks for the replies...

Speed limit? Hmmm - I have never seen any posted signs - I'll have to check the city website and my map to see if there is one.... I know that I am not the fastest one on that path and it's a fairly common sight to see other riders going hard as well some in aero-position, even some pace-lines!

My problem is that the path is the closest spot to me to get some continuous riding in. Anything on the street in my area is stop-and-go.

I always try to ride at a speed that I perceive as safe for my surroundings / situation. I will not pass someone riding along, stable, in their lane at the same speed I would pass someone walking a dog or someone weaving around on the path.

Edited by RockTractor 2010-08-02 10:52 AM
2010-08-02 10:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
I have to agree with Chris... a multi-use path is not a proper place to go those kind of speeds... not for you own safety or safety of others....

  • .. and you don't have to have a speed limit sign set up on a bike path. In most states, the law is simply that you should maintain speeds that are safe, which is very subjective, yes, but I can pretty much guarantee that 20+ would be considered unsafe.

    • Same reason why riding on side walks are not safe...
    2010-08-02 11:07 AM
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    Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
    audiojan - 2010-08-02 9:52 AM

    In most states, the law is simply that you should maintain speeds that are safe


    This appears to be the case:
    § 8-3-3-16 BICYCLE SPEED.
    No person shall operate a bicycle at a speed either greater than the lawful
    speed limit or than is reasonable and prudent under the conditions then
    existing, whichever is the lesser. ('74 Code, § 9-5-16.17) (Ord. 65-1974; Am.
    Ord. 19-2007; Am. Ord. 37-2008)
    2010-08-02 11:20 AM
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    Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
    in2deep - 2010-08-02 9:39 AM
    No one care is YOU thought you might hit her, obviously she was scared.


    in2deep,

    The point of my comment was not to have my "feelings" taken into consideration - but, to explain that I felt in control the whole time and never thought that the situation, no matter how it unfolded, would result in me colliding with her.

    2010-08-02 11:22 AM
    in reply to: #3018190

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    Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?

    rayd - 2010-08-02 11:26 AM
    Hydro - 2010-08-02 9:08 AM Don't do speeds like that on a multi-use path!  All the multi-use paths near me are marked with a 10 mph bike limit, and that's because of stuff like this.

    If you want to go that fast, please ride in the street where you belong. 

    Multi-use paths are for families out on a stroll or very leisurely bike ride - not for training at high speeds.

    Cheers, Chris


    x2
    though I think posted limit of 10mph is too slow...slowing down to 18 mph when approaching a family on the MUP is too fast.  sure you can handle the bike for what you see coming but you have no idea what this little girl is going to do.  you need too slow way down!

    I've actually slowed down where I have unclipped in these situations.  I know what I would do if someone in spandex hit my kid.  I wouldn't have much tollerance for it.

    We have a local trail that is a converted railroad right-of-way.  On the weekends there's a mix of walkers, joggers, rollerbladers, and cyclists.  A lot of the "casual cyclists" aren't wearing helmets, and along with walkers, runners and skaters, are wearing Ipods. 

    The posted speed limit is 15mph, but it is regularly exceeded by cyclists. 

    I was by myself riding at the 15 mph limit yesterday and a group of 4-5 riders from the local tri club went blasting by me doing well over 20 mph without any warning or "on your left" call. 

    My fear is that there's eventually going to be a serious mishap and cyclists as a group are going to take the rap.

    Mark

     

     

     

    2010-08-02 11:42 AM
    in reply to: #3018405

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    Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
    RedCorvette - 2010-08-02 12:22 PM

    We have a local trail that is a converted railroad right-of-way.  On the weekends there's a mix of walkers, joggers, rollerbladers, and cyclists.  A lot of the "casual cyclists" aren't wearing helmets, and along with walkers, runners and skaters, are wearing Ipods. 

    The posted speed limit is 15mph, but it is regularly exceeded by cyclists. 

    I was by myself riding at the 15 mph limit yesterday and a group of 4-5 riders from the local tri club went blasting by me doing well over 20 mph without any warning or "on your left" call. 

    My fear is that there's eventually going to be a serious mishap and cyclists as a group are going to take the rap.

    Mark 



    x2

    Just because it's not illegal to go over 20mph on the MUP doesn't mean that it's smart.  Just because there are other cyclist going over 20mph on the MUP doesn't mean that it's a smart thing to do.  These statements only pertain to high activity areas of MUPs.  There are some remote areas along the Silver Comet Trail in Atl that are probably ok for such speeds.


    2010-08-02 12:28 PM
    in reply to: #3018251

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    Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
    in2deep - 2010-08-02 8:39 AM As a father I would have chased you down and given you a solid thumping.


    For the OP, get off the MUP for anything other than a casual rec ride.

    For the father, really? Gonna chase someone down and start a fight? Very manly of you, but what happens when the person you chase down is someone like me, who is very able to defend himself?

    John

    2010-08-02 12:31 PM
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    Subject: RE: Should I have gone back and said something?
    Another problem with MUPs:

    If you yell ON YOUR LEFT, some people move to THEIR left... many people on MUPs don't know the "rules of the road."
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