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someone needs to look in a mirror (Page 2)
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 2010-08-30 8:52 AM in reply to: #3069119 |
New user 403 |  Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirrorI'll admit, I didn't read all of the posts. But, at what point does a person meet the cut off 200+ Clyd or 150+ Athena, but needs to race Ag because they are too fast? Do they have to stay under a certain swim pace, bike pace or run pace? I ask the question sarcasticly, because I'm the mirror guy 6'1" 220 (previously 255). Last two races I did not run Clyd, cuz I got tired of the crap about - you don't look like a clyd or you're too fast for a clyd. No one gives me credit for training 7 days a week and logging 15 to 20 hrs a week to improve. It's usually, "you need to move up." I'm offended by that becuase it says you have to be overweight and out of shape to race either Ath/Cly Talking to my fellow Clyds, I feel like those comments cheapen the division, because people work really hard to loose weight, get faster, and improve, but once you start to podium, you hear "you should race AG to let others podium." We race, and Tris are competitions, which means we can personally choose to race against our selves (go run around the block and beat your time each day). Or you race a competition to see how you compare against others on the same course. I do not want to deminish anyone who goes out and finishes. I was that guy 4 years ago. It is a great accomplishment. FINISH a race, but to podium takes work and talent. The coolest thing at yesterday's tri was everyone still at the venue cheering on an 80 year old man finishing his tri about 30 minutes after everyone else. Cool stuff. The other side of competitions is seeing people get rewarded for their hard work and dedication. |
| 2010-08-30 9:03 AM in reply to: #3069119 |
Veteran 195 | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror lol, amen. My intention was not to make people upset. I just think its funny that people still complain that "life is not fair." Sorry folks its just not. If a 200 lb. clyde or 170 lb. Athena beats you, use it as motivation. What can you do to get on the podium and feel good about it. Remember, somewhere out there someone is training as hard as you and when you face them you will beat them. (I changed the quote a little, try to think positive) For me it is not only the clock and fellow competitors, but my issue with weight-loss. |
| 2010-08-30 9:05 AM in reply to: #3070855 |
Veteran 1097  Elizabethtown, KY | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror Pector55 - 2010-08-30 9:45 AM roch1009 - 2010-08-30 7:42 AM crlarner - 2010-08-29 9:58 PM If I remember correctly, I entered a race a few years back that split the c/a division. 225-250 and 250 plus for cly. Can't remember for women. Perhaps that would be a better solution? IMO - the goal should not be to narrow the field as much as possible to either optimize one's chances of getting to the podium or make one feel better about his appearance relative to his group. Finishing second in a field of four is not that impressive. Not unimpressive, just not as impressive as finishing second in a field of 20. People, just go out there and race your race. Yup... or just do what it is you do. I'm attempting Savageman in Sept. After riding the bike course once, I can honestly say that just a finish is an accomplishment. I really don't care about a podium. I just want to beat the course. I don't know if it is burnout from training or I'm just having anxiety about DFL-ing the event but for some reason I'm not excited about it. All I could think about after riding the course was, "OMG, no way I am running a half marathon now." LOL Dude, I just looked at your logs. Absolutely no way you're finishing anywhere close to last. |
| 2010-08-30 9:35 AM in reply to: #3069119 |
Veteran 263 Chicago suburbs | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror Maybe I'm not the norm but I'm a big guy 6'2" and 270 down from 404. I am proud of all the big guys out there whether they are 5'8 and 220 or 6'6 201. They all inspire me to do better and I feel a very strong sense of solidarity with them. So, I don't treally understand all the angst on the topic. A Cly or an Athena shouldn't be looked down on whether they are barely making the cutoff or way over it. Having athletes that are above the norm and are still competing/competitive help move us all forward. They prove you can be "over" the endurance athlete mold and still excel or achieve. So, let's stop the hating and be proud of each other! |
| 2010-08-30 9:42 AM in reply to: #3069119 |
Extreme Veteran 335 Herriman, Utah | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror Chris, thanks for the history lesson. I don't recall seeing your previous attempts at edumacating me, so hopefully this time the lesson sinks in my thick skull. Your Q&A joke made me laugh, too. Let me just add that the Clydesdale Division, regardless of its origins, has evolved to include plumper horses than just the brawny clydes. Most people believe it's for the overweight and obese. As the pros say, "It is what it is." I think whoever qualifies for and wants to be in the category should be. It honestly is not a big deal to me at all. It is unfair to only harp on overweight people for complaining about not being able to keep up with the fitter clydesdales and athenas, though. Many fit C/As are in this division because they don't think they can compete with the lighter people in their age groups. And the age groupers are divided up because older people supposedly can't stay with younger people (or vice versa). People of all sizes and ages are trying to get whatever edge they can to compete for a podium spot. Thanks to this thread I am now going to effort creating a new non-weight-or-age division: Stallions. Edited by mrwrite 2010-08-30 9:44 AM |
| 2010-08-30 9:49 AM in reply to: #3071013 |
Master 1517 Western MA near the VT & NH border on the CT river | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror mrwrite - 2010-08-30 10:42 AM Chris, thanks for the history lesson. I don't recall seeing your previous attempts at edumacating me, so hopefully this time the lesson sinks in my thick skull. Your Q&A joke made me laugh, too. Let me just add that the Clydesdale Division, regardless of its origins, has evolved to include plumper horses than just the brawny clydes. Most people believe it's for the overweight and obese. As the pros say, "It is what it is." I think whoever qualifies for and wants to be in the category should be. It honestly is not a big deal to me at all. It is unfair to only harp on overweight people for complaining about not being able to keep up with the fitter clydesdales and athenas, though. Many fit C/As are in this division because they don't think they compete with the lighter people in their age groups. And the age groupers are divided up because older people supposedly can't stay with younger people (or vice versa). People of all sizes and ages are trying to get whatever edge they can to compete for a podium spot. Thanks to this thread I am now going to effort creating a new non-weight-or-age division: Stallions. Good, Im glad we can be friends and I hope we all can get along - no matter our size and shape or what fitness level we are in. The point is We are all triathletes! And we are Clydesdales and Athenas. And yes, it has evolved but that doesnt mean that fit ppl should no longer be in it. I'm all for everyone getting out there and exercising and leading a better and healthier lifestyle. But a medal shouldnt improve or diminish your personal achievement. I highlighted part of your statement because that is in fact, the reason why the C/A category was established by Joe Law. But just because people believe something, doesnt make it true either. A lot of people think/thought Iraq had something to do w/ 9/11, but that doesnt make it true - just like believing that C/A was intended for anything other than an athlete who weighs more than 200#'s. I think a better way to say it is "It is what it has become". But that still doesnt change history. Like I've said - no one should complain when they get beat by someone who is in better shape. And that is the general tone when someone (like the OP) brings it up as to who should race in the cat. Edited by ratherbesnowboarding 2010-08-30 10:13 AM |
| 2010-08-30 10:23 AM in reply to: #3071013 |
Veteran 1097 Elizabethtown, KY | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror mrwrite - 2010-08-30 10:42 AM Chris, thanks for the history lesson. I don't recall seeing your previous attempts at edumacating me, so hopefully this time the lesson sinks in my thick skull. Your Q&A joke made me laugh, too. Let me just add that the Clydesdale Division, regardless of its origins, has evolved to include plumper horses than just the brawny clydes. Most people believe it's for the overweight and obese. As the pros say, "It is what it is." I think whoever qualifies for and wants to be in the category should be. It honestly is not a big deal to me at all. It is unfair to only harp on overweight people for complaining about not being able to keep up with the fitter clydesdales and athenas, though. Many fit C/As are in this division because they don't think they can compete with the lighter people in their age groups. And the age groupers are divided up because older people supposedly can't stay with younger people (or vice versa). People of all sizes and ages are trying to get whatever edge they can to compete for a podium spot. Thanks to this thread I am now going to effort creating a new non-weight-or-age division: Stallions. Oh sure, create a division that discriminates against those of us who have had a certain surgery. Will you at least create a Gelding division? |
| 2010-08-30 10:30 AM in reply to: #3071026 |
Extreme Veteran 335 Herriman, Utah | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror ratherbesnowboarding - 2010-08-30 8:49 AM Good, Im glad we can be friends and I hope we all can get along - no matter our size and shape or what fitness level we are in. The point is We are all triathletes! And we are Clydesdales and Athenas. And yes, it has evolved but that doesnt mean that fit ppl should no longer be in it. I'm all for everyone getting out there and exercising and leading a better and healthier lifestyle. But a medal shouldnt improve or diminish your personal achievement. AMEN! I tried to say that but my main message might have been overshadowed by my soap-box lecturing about calling people names and my C/A history detour. And, LOL!, yes we now have two divisions: Stallions and Geldings. Edited by mrwrite 2010-08-30 10:31 AM |
| 2010-08-30 12:36 PM in reply to: #3069119 |
Regular 83 | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror I realize I should stay out of this, but hey@ What can I say...I'll most likely be an Athena for life despite being on a kickc butt weightloss mission this year... My story...I got frustrated with the scale and working out for a number...so I decided to traain for something. Marathons are too long, and I hate running(but that's changing...) so a triathlon was the next natural thing to do. Since I've been on this journey since the beginning of May, I've lost weight, improved my swimming, running and cycling. My first sprint goal was to finish, I had originally said under 3 hours, because it was a mile OWS. They shortened the swim and I finished under 2 hours, next goal was under 1:45, I finished in 1:25 and took 4th in Athena...well, I had a month between that and my next tri, I wanted podium, so I worked real hard, improved all three disciplines and accomplished both my time goal(which I checked first and foremost, and then thought about podium, after a long wait between my finish and the awards ceremony, there I was in 2nd. Right next to two women, I would consider my size(5'9 - 165) I started the year at 218 and have been literally training my butt off(as well as many other body parts!) Yes, I was initially excited about the Athena category, because I was trying to lose weight, but my goal is 150 anyway, so I will never be able to compete against the 5'2 3% BF chicks that run like the wind...they just don't have as much weight to push around. If you want to get all up in arms about the category, go run a mile and time yourself, then go put on a 40# weight vest, run another mile and time yourself again. Shee how much slower you are at the same fitness level, carrying an extra 40 pounds. That should settle the argument completely! If you want to podium in the Athena/Clyd category, work for it. Trust me, there is a woman in this area that I will be comparing myself against. She cheered me on as a fellow Athena during the race, finished first by a long shot in Athena, and is a picture of what I want to do next year! I wasn't mad that she was in better shape than me as an athena, I was motivated to get there for myself! |
| 2010-08-30 2:09 PM in reply to: #3071483 |
Champion 10018 , Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror I am so glad this thread turned around. I was feeling kind of sick reading the first page of posts. There is no room here for name-calling and that's about the only behavior that will get a thread pulled - and where's the fun in that? Kudos to those of you who worked hard on making peace. I do sometimes think that the weight for Athenas seems a little low. At least where I live (Minnesota) I would guess that half of the women racing might qualify for Athena. Someone should do a modern study of women triathletes, weight, and placing, and see where weight shows up as a significant factor. For the most part I have placed in all of my races as Athena and I am usually about MOP overall. Actually, perhaps my experience shows the weight thing is correct. The fastest (and usually smallest) Athena can only finish about mid-pack overall... I also finish mid-pack in my AG, if I put myself in there, so they might be on to something. The run is where the Athenas suffer the most. I've never seen an Athena run much faster than 8 min/miles, even in a sprint. |
| 2010-08-30 3:39 PM in reply to: #3069119 |
Member 29 | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror I do sometimes think that the weight for Athenas seems a little low. I've thought that as well. But maybe it's that it seems low to my frame of reference . . . at 6 feet tall, even when I was at my WW goal weight, I was still a long way from 150. To me, it seems like a 150-pound woman and a 200-pound man are not really equivalent, but again, it may just be my frame of reference. |
| 2010-08-30 5:00 PM in reply to: #3069119 |
Extreme Veteran 392 Raleigh | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror I think weight is a tough gauge. It really boils down to Lean Body Mass and your genetics/ body frame. Women carry about 2.5% more body fat than men on average (I think this is due mostly to the baby department above) I weigh 215lbs now with a body fat of apx. 21% which means my LBM is about 170lbs. I would like to drop 10 lbs but in order to do so means I would need to get down to 15% body fat or loose muscle mass. Unfortunately, I like beer, pizza, Chinese food, cheese, hamburgers, etc. so guess whats not gonna happen.  AVG male 200lbs (.20 body fat) = 40lbs fat or LBM of 160lbs AVG female 150lbs (.26 body fat) = 39lbs fat or LBM of 111lbs |
| 2010-08-30 6:54 PM in reply to: #3071737 |
Master 2235 Pacific Northwest | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror BikerGrrrl - 2010-08-30 12:09 PM Actually, perhaps my experience shows the weight thing is correct. The fastest (and usually smallest) Athena can only finish about mid-pack overall... I also finish mid-pack in my AG, if I put myself in there, so they might be on to something. The run is where the Athenas suffer the most. I've never seen an Athena run much faster than 8 min/miles, even in a sprint. You have to remember that the overall finish time is not only dependent on the run speed, you have to be able to be good in all three events, and have good transitions....I challenged this theory last weekend at my favorite local race, where I have won Athena easily the past few years. This year I raced AG (to be able to go head to head with a couple of my "lighter" friends) and was 4/29 in my AG, still besting my time from last year by 5 minutes (sprint). Overall I was in the top 1/3 of ALL finishers, and was in the FOP for women, even coming in 7th in Masters. I am not a small Athena, either, and no my run was not under 8-min/mile, but it was near that, and my bike and swim were fast too. I would have still won Athena by about 5 minutes if I'd registered there, but I don't know that I would have pushed as hard in that wave, as in the AG, I was passed in the run and then worked my butt off to pass her toward the end. Sometimes competition is a good thing no matter what division you are in! It would be fun to have fun categories once in a while: Star Signs, College degrees, income level (wouldn't that be interesting?), height, random assignment to a group....if there are any race directors out there, maybe throw one or more of these into some fun race just for kicks! How fun would it be to say, "I was the fastest Aquarian in the race". I am also glad this thread turned around. Just celebrate being healthy and enjoying this crazy sport, and if you race A/C then give it your best, and if AG, same. I race because I love it and I also want women to know that all shapes and sizes can do this and be successful, and even fast once in a while....or not....but have fun--that is the bottom line! |
| 2010-08-30 7:29 PM in reply to: #3072322 |
Pro 4824 Houston | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror Medusa_Ann - 2010-08-30 6:54 PM BikerGrrrl - 2010-08-30 12:09 PM Actually, perhaps my experience shows the weight thing is correct. The fastest (and usually smallest) Athena can only finish about mid-pack overall... I also finish mid-pack in my AG, if I put myself in there, so they might be on to something. The run is where the Athenas suffer the most. I've never seen an Athena run much faster than 8 min/miles, even in a sprint. You have to remember that the overall finish time is not only dependent on the run speed, you have to be able to be good in all three events, and have good transitions....I challenged this theory last weekend at my favorite local race, where I have won Athena easily the past few years. This year I raced AG (to be able to go head to head with a couple of my "lighter" friends) and was 4/29 in my AG, still besting my time from last year by 5 minutes (sprint). Overall I was in the top 1/3 of ALL finishers, and was in the FOP for women, even coming in 7th in Masters. I am not a small Athena, either, and no my run was not under 8-min/mile, but it was near that, and my bike and swim were fast too. I would have still won Athena by about 5 minutes if I'd registered there, but I don't know that I would have pushed as hard in that wave, as in the AG, I was passed in the run and then worked my butt off to pass her toward the end. Sometimes competition is a good thing no matter what division you are in! It would be fun to have fun categories once in a while: Star Signs, College degrees, income level (wouldn't that be interesting?), height, random assignment to a group....if there are any race directors out there, maybe throw one or more of these into some fun race just for kicks! How fun would it be to say, "I was the fastest Aquarian in the race". I am also glad this thread turned around. Just celebrate being healthy and enjoying this crazy sport, and if you race A/C then give it your best, and if AG, same. I race because I love it and I also want women to know that all shapes and sizes can do this and be successful, and even fast once in a while....or not....but have fun--that is the bottom line! You are awesome, congrats on your race. In regard to the bolded part it isn't different classes but different names. In a triathlong here in Houston put on by the Houston Racing Team the Clydes are Kingons, Athenas are Vulcans and rookies are Cadets It's the Intergalactic Tri - fun! |
| 2010-08-30 8:00 PM in reply to: #3071737 |
Expert 1360 | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror BikerGrrrl - 2010-08-30 3:09 PM I am so glad this thread turned around. I was feeling kind of sick reading the first page of posts. There is no room here for name-calling and that's about the only behavior that will get a thread pulled - and where's the fun in that? Kudos to those of you who worked hard on making peace. I do sometimes think that the weight for Athenas seems a little low. At least where I live (Minnesota) I would guess that half of the women racing might qualify for Athena. Someone should do a modern study of women triathletes, weight, and placing, and see where weight shows up as a significant factor. For the most part I have placed in all of my races as Athena and I am usually about MOP overall. Actually, perhaps my experience shows the weight thing is correct. The fastest (and usually smallest) Athena can only finish about mid-pack overall... I also finish mid-pack in my AG, if I put myself in there, so they might be on to something. The run is where the Athenas suffer the most. I've never seen an Athena run much faster than 8 min/miles, even in a sprint. Some of our local athenas regularly go faster than 8 minutes/miles in ontario. My 5K PR is faster than 8 minutes per mile and my sprint run time isn't far off (I'm not in that shape now). One gal regularly goes around 7.2 minutes per mile in sprints. Also, I don't suffer on the run, I suffer on the bike. On the run, I usually make back ground. I am a good swimmer, poor cyclist and a solid MOP runner. (I have place in AG at smaller running only races). |
| 2010-08-30 9:43 PM in reply to: #3072395 |
Master 2235 Pacific Northwest | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror In a triathlon here in Houston put on by the Houston Racing Team the Clydes are Kingons, Athenas are Vulcans and rookies are Cadets It's the Intergalactic Tri - fun!I want to race as a Vulcan! What fun!! |
| 2010-08-31 7:02 AM in reply to: #3072595 |
Champion 10018 , Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror I should have said "Around here the Athenas suffer most on the run." I looked at the results for all of the races I did this year, certainly not a comprehensive example. Sounds like the Athenas in other areas are much more competitive. |
| 2010-08-31 7:43 AM in reply to: #3072595 |
Champion 5376 PA | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror Medusa_Ann - 2010-08-30 10:43 PM In a triathlon here in Houston put on by the Houston Racing Team the Clydes are Kingons, Athenas are Vulcans and rookies are Cadets It's the Intergalactic Tri - fun!I want to race as a Vulcan! What fun!! Yummm... Vulcan pace booty! By "intergalactic tri" are you talking about triathlon or something else?  |
| 2010-08-31 7:46 AM in reply to: #3069119 |
Regular 96 | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror If you make the weight race the divison. The more competitive the better. Nothing better then seeing Clydes at the top of the results board. |
| 2010-09-01 11:49 AM in reply to: #3069119 |
Expert 1074 Tyrone, Georgia | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror After having read and reread the OP and still confused. If the weight limit was higher would it then be okay to compete in the category if you weighed that? Just don't understand the purpose of the conversation. The class exists, as do AG's. Should someone in an AG that places 2nd or 3rd behind someone that appears to easily make the clyde division be upset and think that person should have raced a clyde or athena? The classes exist and if you meet the requirement...you meet the requirement. I have yet to see weigh in's at any event yet, but then again I have never seen them ask for birth certificates. |
| 2010-09-01 3:14 PM in reply to: #3076113 |
Champion 6503 NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror I raced in an IronMan brand race as a Master Clyde, and at 41 years old, 5'11" , 12% BF and 201 lbs, was not weighed. I had a couple of AG's laugh that when I told them that I was racing in Clyde Division. I really do not understand the OP point. Should I have not raced as a Master Clyde? I met all of the qualifications. 41 years = Just barely a master 201 = just barely a Clyde I also raced in the 40-44 AG the Spring before, only 3 weeks after my 40th birthday. Not fair to the 44 year olds? As a side note, I don't find the term "fat" derogatory. In the golf world, I am a "specimen" In the tri world, I am "fat" It is what it is. |
| 2010-09-01 3:54 PM in reply to: #3076779 |
Expert 1416 San Luis Obispo, CA | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror pga_mike - 2010-09-01 1:14 PM I raced in an IronMan brand race as a Master Clyde, and at 41 years old, 5'11" , 12% BF and 201 lbs, was not weighed. I had a couple of AG's laugh that when I told them that I was racing in Clyde Division. I really do not understand the OP point. Should I have not raced as a Master Clyde? I met all of the qualifications. 41 years = Just barely a master 201 = just barely a Clyde I also raced in the 40-44 AG the Spring before, only 3 weeks after my 40th birthday. Not fair to the 44 year olds? As a side note, I don't find the term "fat" derogatory. In the golf world, I am a "specimen" In the tri world, I am "fat" It is what it is. I think what the OP was saying is that you should get to race in the "41 year old, 5'11", 12% BF, 201 pound category". Having to compete against a 41 year old, 5'11", 12% BF who weighs 202, IS JUST NOT FAIR! I think USAT should come up with a handicap like golf, so we can have gross and net divisions. And we all know there's never any "sandbagging" in net events.  Edited by blbriley 2010-09-01 3:55 PM |
| 2010-09-02 7:01 PM in reply to: #3069119 |
Elite 4564 Boise | Subject: RE: someone needs to look in a mirror Personally I don't choose to race clyde (6'2, 215) because I am trying to beat EVERYONE out there, not just a small sample of people. I don't care if I beat 20 clydes or 20 people in my age group, I want to beat each and every single one of you. I want to beat the women, the children, the young people, the old people and the people with fancy bikes. I'm out there to compete, and I can sure hold my own. I have placed in the overall top 10 a few times at some of the smaller races and after my winter training, I fully expect to come out and whip all of these smaller scrawny guys butts as well. |
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