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IM bike training question
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 2010-09-09 12:58 PM |
Extreme Veteran  1942     In front of computer when typing this. |  Subject: IM bike training questionI was just curious what effort people would normally do their long IM prep rides at? When I was training for a HIM I would do the 50-60 mile rides at pretty much the hardest effort I could hold for that distance. For 80-100 mile IM training rides though, race pace seems too easy to me and I was planning on doing them at "the hardest effort level I can hold for the distance" (I know, not very scientific or specific). I subscribe to the "4hrs at a harder pace is worth more than 5 or 6 hours at an easy pace" theory but want to know what others do. Edited by louiskie 2010-09-09 12:59 PM |
| 2010-09-09 1:13 PM in reply to: #3089577 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: IM bike training question I have two conflicting thoughts on it. I felt a lot of my previous IM long rides were "too easy" and felt like I should "race them" in the future (like you are thinking). Even though MOST IM plans have you riding at a comfortable race pace - Z2... I have a feeling I want to speed up some. HOWEVER, in a race, you have a marathon to do, and if you are used to going hard on the bike in training, you may feel like you can to that pace in the race, and not hold back... Hence wasting yourself for the run... I'm sort of leaning towards the direction of the plans. Easier on the long rides, and really push the shorter, high intensity days. |
| 2010-09-09 1:14 PM in reply to: #3089577 |
Pro 5169 Burbs | Subject: RE: IM bike training question louiskie - 2010-09-09 1:58 PM I was just curious what effort people would normally do their long IM prep rides at? When I was training for a HIM I would do the 50-60 mile rides at pretty much the hardest effort I could hold for that distance. For 80-100 mile IM training rides though, race pace seems too easy to me and I was planning on doing them at "the hardest effort level I can hold for the distance" (I know, not very scientific or specific). I subscribe to the "4hrs at a harder pace is worth more than 5 or 6 hours at an easy pace" theory but want to know what others do. I am not fast, and my bike is definitely my weakest, so take this FWIW  Part of long rides is to get used to the time in the saddle. You want to get in a few 100+ milers (however long they take you) so you body gets used to being on the saddle and being in aero. You also want to use long rides to practice nutrition/ hydration --- see what works for you. |
| 2010-09-09 1:17 PM in reply to: #3089638 |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: IM bike training question On my long rides I try to complete the 2nd half at a harder pace than the first half. |
| 2010-09-09 1:51 PM in reply to: #3089577 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: IM bike training question Haven't done a full yet, so I don't normally do long IM prep rides yet. I will comment though. When/how far out are the rides you are describing and are they designed as race simulation workouts or to get you stronger on the bike? To ME, those are different and I would ride them very differently. |
| 2010-09-09 2:11 PM in reply to: #3089577 |
Master 1402 Cumming, Georgia | Subject: RE: IM bike training question I've never done a full ironman but I'm training for one now. My longs rides are key for me figuring out pacing and nutrition come race day. I don't want to learn on race day that the pace I decided to ride would cost me on the run. As a matter of fact, this weekends long ride I plan to completely ignore pace and stricly pay attention to my heart rate. I also figure that going all out for 4 - 6 hours is risking injury and not worth it to me. Just my thoughts so take it for what its worth. |
| 2010-09-09 2:25 PM in reply to: #3089741 |
Extreme Veteran 1942 In front of computer when typing this. | Subject: RE: IM bike training question acumenjay - 2010-09-09 2:51 PM Haven't done a full yet, so I don't normally do long IM prep rides yet. I will comment though. When/how far out are the rides you are describing and are they designed as race simulation workouts or to get you stronger on the bike? To ME, those are different and I would ride them very differently. Most of these rides would be to get stronger on the bike and I don't mind being trashed at the end of them. If I can do 100 miles at, say, 20mph average, dropping that pace to, say 17/18 on race day should feel much easier (yes, I know, don't pace by speed but that is another discussion. This is just a "for instance"). |
| 2010-09-09 2:27 PM in reply to: #3089577 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: IM bike training question Depends what you want to accomplish. If you are in a big building block (most likely riding several days) you want to keep the intensity around 'easy' (RPE-wise), 70-75% of power threshold or around zone 2 if training with HRM, so you can ride often. If you only do one long ride per week you can go longer/easy (6+ hrs) or harder/shorter (i.e. 4 vs 6 hrs) to try induce further fitness gains, hence riding around 'steady (RPE-wise), 75-80% of power threshold or zone 2 to zone 3. If time is a limiter for you, you can go mid distance (3-4.5 hrs) harder around moderate (RPE-wise), 80-85% of power threshold or zone 3. On some long sessions you can push the pace by breaking the ride in segments and shoot for 'easy' for 35-40% of the ride, steady for 35-40% and moderate/hard (80-95% of power threshold, zone 3 to zone 4 for 20-30% of the ride. As you can see there are many ways to approach this. At the end, make sure: 1) your fitness is improving 2) you do more than a few rides going the distance (112 miles), 3) Some long rides you go harder of what you'll do on race day. I hope that helps. |
| 2010-09-09 2:31 PM in reply to: #3089577 |
| Regular 190 | Subject: RE: IM bike training question I have often wondered how the elites and pros train for their long runs. I would figure that they train it similar to their running, at race pace plus an amount of time (example:MP+20 seconds per mile). So not quite race pace, but still harder than z2. |
| 2010-09-09 2:31 PM in reply to: #3089836 |
Extreme Veteran 1942 In front of computer when typing this. | Subject: RE: IM bike training question JorgeM - 2010-09-09 3:27 PM Depends what you want to accomplish. If you are in a big building block (most likely riding several days) you want to keep the intensity around 'easy' (RPE-wise), 70-75% of power threshold or around zone 2 if training with HRM, so you can ride often. If you only do one long ride per week you can go longer/easy (6+ hrs) or harder/shorter (i.e. 4 vs 6 hrs) to try induce further fitness gains, hence riding around 'steady (RPE-wise), 75-80% of power threshold or zone 2 to zone 3. If time is a limiter for you, you can go mid distance (3-4.5 hrs) harder around moderate (RPE-wise), 80-85% of power threshold or zone 3. On some long sessions you can push the pace by breaking the ride in segments and shoot for 'easy' for 35-40% of the ride, steady for 35-40% and moderate/hard (80-95% of power threshold, zone 3 to zone 4 for 20-30% of the ride. As you can see there are many ways to approach this. At the end, make sure: 1) your fitness is improving 2) you do more than a few rides going the distance (112 miles), 3) Some long rides you go harder of what you'll do on race day. I hope that helps. Jorge, thanks- this is awesome and along the lines of what I have been planning to do. Great to get your input/confirmation. |
| 2010-09-11 9:25 AM in reply to: #3089577 |
Expert 1706 NoVA | Subject: RE: IM bike training question Jorge hit it (as usual!!)---no reason for it to be a "one pace" ride---mix it up some---as in 2 hrs "easy" z2 and then build to z3 effort for second 2 hrs type rides...I'm not doing a full this year but a HIM and my plan calls for a race sim brick each week---so lots of 3+hr rides followed by 30min runs---the rides are great---first hr is "easy" then high z2 till the last half hour which is z3---this usually puts me riding at high z2 for 1.5-2hrs...this gives me an ave power of borderline z2/z3 for the whole ride... |
| 2010-09-11 1:51 PM in reply to: #3089577 |
Veteran 693 Indianapolis | Subject: RE: IM bike training question Ideally you want 70-75% of FTP. I just did a 6 hour trainer ride this morning where I mixed in 1.5 hrs of efforts at 85% FTP (HIM pace). You REALLY need a powertap. |
| 2010-09-11 2:45 PM in reply to: #3092765 |
Extreme Veteran 1942 In front of computer when typing this. | Subject: RE: IM bike training question jamiej - 2010-09-11 2:51 PM Ideally you want 70-75% of FTP. I just did a 6 hour trainer ride this morning where I mixed in 1.5 hrs of efforts at 85% FTP (HIM pace). You REALLY need a powertap. I would be more than happy to use a powertap. Anyone offering to donate one to a good cause? My triathlon fund has recently been diverted to the "lets buy pink stuff for seedling #3" fund :-) |
| 2010-09-11 3:00 PM in reply to: #3092803 |
Veteran 693 Indianapolis | Subject: RE: IM bike training question bummer. Can you sell one of them? You can get a new wired PT for about $650. Maybe put it on your Christmas list..... |
| 2010-09-11 7:41 PM in reply to: #3092812 |
Extreme Veteran 508 Fleming Island, FL | Subject: RE: IM bike training question Something I remember reading about the long rides and not going at an all out effort is that you want to train your body to work in the aerobic heart rate zone. You want your body to work as efficiently as possible come race day. You also risk injury and/or burnout when you go as hard as you can. Save the extra effort days for your mid week workouts. Saying that, I doubt it would hurt if you added in some higher effort segments during the long ride though to mix it up a little. |
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