General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running Rss Feed  
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2010-10-14 8:17 AM

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Subject: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
Running is my biggest limiter and I was thinking of taking 6-8 weeks in the winter and just doing running to build up on my running endurance.  Is this is smart move?  Or would I lose to much in the other 2 to not make it worth it? 

Edited by mjengstrom 2010-10-14 8:19 AM


2010-10-14 8:23 AM
in reply to: #3151438

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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
Well, there would be a lot of value in it for your running! 

I would suggest not doing a switch to doing JUST running, but make your training run focused.  Try to fit in 1 swim and 2 bikes a week and do the rest as running.  That should help you maintain the others while getting your run on track.  Not doing anything on the bike or swim will make you lose a lot of the fitness you gained through this year. 

It would be shame to have to start over next year!
2010-10-14 8:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
AndrewMT - 2010-10-14 7:23 AM

Well, there would be a lot of value in it for your running!

I would suggest not doing a switch to doing JUST running, but make your training run focused. Try to fit in 1 swim and 2 bikes a week and do the rest as running. That should help you maintain the others while getting your run on track. Not doing anything on the bike or swim will make you lose a lot of the fitness you gained through this year.

It would be shame to have to start over next year!



This is exactly what i did last year, only the run block started in oct and lasted until march, with a bit more riding early fall and spring.

Swim really picked up after new years.

Run was much improved, and the bike did not suffer at all.
2010-10-14 8:31 AM
in reply to: #3151472

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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
newbz - 2010-10-14 8:27 AM
AndrewMT - 2010-10-14 7:23 AM Well, there would be a lot of value in it for your running!

I would suggest not doing a switch to doing JUST running, but make your training run focused. Try to fit in 1 swim and 2 bikes a week and do the rest as running. That should help you maintain the others while getting your run on track. Not doing anything on the bike or swim will make you lose a lot of the fitness you gained through this year.

It would be shame to have to start over next year!
This is exactly what i did last year, only the run block started in oct and lasted until march, with a bit more riding early fall and spring. Swim really picked up after new years. Run was much improved, and the bike did not suffer at all.


What did your bike sessions look like through the winter?

I would imagine 2 short but intense interval sessions each week would provide a solid platform going into the next season...or at the very least limit losses. 
2010-10-14 8:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
6-8 weeks probably isn't long enough to see substantial improvement.  Do it for longer.
2010-10-14 9:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
AndrewMT - 2010-10-14 7:31 AM

newbz - 2010-10-14 8:27 AM
AndrewMT - 2010-10-14 7:23 AM Well, there would be a lot of value in it for your running!

I would suggest not doing a switch to doing JUST running, but make your training run focused. Try to fit in 1 swim and 2 bikes a week and do the rest as running. That should help you maintain the others while getting your run on track. Not doing anything on the bike or swim will make you lose a lot of the fitness you gained through this year.

It would be shame to have to start over next year!
This is exactly what i did last year, only the run block started in oct and lasted until march, with a bit more riding early fall and spring. Swim really picked up after new years. Run was much improved, and the bike did not suffer at all.


What did your bike sessions look like through the winter?

I would imagine 2 short but intense interval sessions each week would provide a solid platform going into the next season...or at the very least limit losses.


Up until new years the bike was mainly riding the mountain bike as i could weather permitting, some short, some up to about 3 hours. 1-3x a week on any given week, not a lot of structure (mostly roads and fire roads, no real trail riding).

After new years 2-3 days a week, started doing it harder, 1 tempo ride and two days of shorter 2-5 min intervals/hills. got back on the tri bike in april and thats when the bike training really picked up.



2010-10-14 9:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
JohnnyKay - 2010-10-14 9:40 AM 6-8 weeks probably isn't long enough to see substantial improvement.  Do it for longer.


How long would you recommend?  I like the suggestions of the others to keep in 1 swim and 1-2 bikes per week during this period.

My goal for this year is to qualify for Age Group Nationals and I am targeting Mooseman International (June 4) as my qualifier.  This year was my first doing triathlons and I am not a runner.  Before this year, I never ran more than 1-2 miles and this season I only ran 2 times a week totaling 10-15 miles.  I know that is very low, but all I could really fit in.  I hope to run 3x a week this year after my winter program.  My current run pace for an international is about 8:15 and I think I need to get this to around 7:15 to qualify (without losing anything on the swim or bike).  I am hoping this is not too aggressive. 

My plan is to start my 20 week plan targeting Mooseman on Jan 17 so I have between now and then to build more of a running base.  After Jan 17, I will go back to running 3x a week (and biking 3x and swim 2x a week), increasing volume 10% each week and every 4th week as a -40% recovery week.
2010-10-14 9:17 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
mjengstrom - 2010-10-14 9:13 AM
JohnnyKay - 2010-10-14 9:40 AM 6-8 weeks probably isn't long enough to see substantial improvement.  Do it for longer.


How long would you recommend?  I like the suggestions of the others to keep in 1 swim and 1-2 bikes per week during this period.

My goal for this year is to qualify for Age Group Nationals and I am targeting Mooseman International (June 4) as my qualifier.  This year was my first doing triathlons and I am not a runner.  Before this year, I never ran more than 1-2 miles and this season I only ran 2 times a week totaling 10-15 miles.  I know that is very low, but all I could really fit in.  I hope to run 3x a week this year after my winter program.  My current run pace for an international is about 8:15 and I think I need to get this to around 7:15 to qualify (without losing anything on the swim or bike).  I am hoping this is not too aggressive. 

My plan is to start my 20 week plan targeting Mooseman on Jan 17 so I have between now and then to build more of a running base.  After Jan 17, I will go back to running 3x a week (and biking 3x and swim 2x a week), increasing volume 10% each week and every 4th week as a -40% recovery week.


With that being your goal, I would recommend running a LOT more than 3x per week.  Start now and slowly build up your mileage.  Try doing a short run every single morning, with a few times a week making that run slightly longer or harder.  Gradually increase the duration of those runs and by the end of winter your mileage should be well over 30 miles per week.  If you really want to make big improvements, you need to run consistently, and 3x per week does not qualify in my book. 
2010-10-14 9:21 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
andrew is spot on,

if you can squeeze in an extra 15-20 min here and there, it will help a lot. Think total volume here.

depending on how the other two sports look, starting a balanced plan in jan may not be nessisary to get you to your goals, and spending some time getting that limiter stronger will pay off down the road.

A lot of people see their largest gains after focusing on blocks of single sports at a time (and often dont lose/get back the other two quickly).

And running is one of those sports where there is NO shortcut to simply putting the time in.
2010-10-14 9:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
mjengstrom - 2010-10-14 8:17 AM Running is my biggest limiter and I was thinking of taking 6-8 weeks in the winter and just doing running to build up on my running endurance.  Is this is smart move?  Or would I lose to much in the other 2 to not make it worth it? 


Yes, do a cycle focused on running more but don't stop biking/swimming just do less of it. A solid block would be around 12 weeks testing every 4 to adjust your pace and just keep on running. Choose frequency over pure duration and add some intensity here and there like strides/hills.
2010-10-14 10:17 AM
in reply to: #3151621

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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
With that being your goal, I would recommend running a LOT more than 3x per week.  Start now and slowly build up your mileage.  Try doing a short run every single morning, with a few times a week making that run slightly longer or harder.  Gradually increase the duration of those runs and by the end of winter your mileage should be well over 30 miles per week.  If you really want to make big improvements, you need to run consistently, and 3x per week does not qualify in my book. 


Thanks for the ideas.  I guess my other limiters are Family and Work, which may make it hard to fit in that many runs and still keep 1 swim and 2 bikes.  I can probably fit in 4 (maybe 5 some weeks) and see how that goes. 

Assuming I do 4 runs a week, how would you recommend I structure it?  This is what I was thinking: 2 short runs, 1 long run and 1 med run. I would increase volume by 10% each week and every 4th week reduce by 40%.  Once I build more base, I would incorporate more speed and hill workouts for short and med runs.  I believe I could get to 30 miles per week with this plan in about 16 weeks (4 cycles).  I added a picture to help (just shows run volume).





(run volume.jpg)



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run volume.jpg (80KB - 14 downloads)


2010-10-14 11:00 AM
in reply to: #3151438

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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
After my last tri races last year, I ran from last Sept to May 30 for a first marathon, and did nothing but running.

I figured since I was pretty average at everything I wasn't going to lose much, and I was right. I started swimming/biking for an Aug 70.3 and while the bike swim weren't much better than my previous years, my run put me in top 10% AG. And the run fitness/weight loss still gave me minor help on the bike/swim.

This winter will hopefully be bike focus and keep the run in good shape.

2010-10-14 11:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running

Your chart looks like a reasonable plan. Personally I do my longest runs on Sat or Sun only because I have more free time on those days. I think you need 4 good solid runs a week, gradually building your mileage until you can do 12-15 miles, adjusting up or down depending on your race distance goals.  I dont think you have to run anymore than 4 times a week.

2010-10-14 11:19 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
Sunday is usually my long bike so I dont like to do a long run followed by a long bike.  But I can look at switching the long run to Sat if I feel good.

My race distance is International (10K run).
2010-10-14 11:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
Do you have a rest day in there? Remember, a rest day doesn't have to be a no-exercise day. I started doing a short, relaxed 2-mile run on my rest day. It lets me concentrate of form, stride, lean, etc. and doesn't tax my body at all.

I'm doing a very run-focused plan right now (and it's still in-season here). 5 days/wk run - 2 short, 1 med, 1 long, and 1 recovery; 2 days/wk bike (1 long (52 mile), 1 short (20 mile)); 2 days swim (2600 yds/day). When my regular pool closes for the season, I will switch to 1 day/wk swim for maintenance and maybe add a day for biking. My run has been improving a ton, and biking and swimming have both improved a little bit.

You should be able to maintain swim and bike by doing them once/wk while increasing your run (volume/frequency first, then speed work). Personally, I would set up an 18-wk plan to take you through the winter. Grab one of the HM or FM plans and tailor it to your needs.

Good luck!
2010-10-14 12:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
BTW:  What do I do when I reach my desired max volume for the week?  Do I cut back the volume to where it was a few cycles earlier and start building again and keep doing that?  Or do I level off and stay at that volume for the rest of the season?  Or something else???


2010-10-14 12:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
The chart looks very prettty.

Personally, I don't think targeting 10% increases every week is a good idea.  Might be easy at the beginning, but you may want to do less later.  I also am not a fan at all of big cut-back weeks.  My view is if your body needs that much recovery, yuo are doing too much to begin with.  It's OK to run at the same volume for several weeks while your body adapts.  There's no need to try to rush a build.  Endurance is best built gradually, with patience.  For your 20 week program, the only "speed" work you should do are maybe some strides.

Once you get to a volume you are comfortable with, then you should mainatin it if you can.  Perhaps begin incorpating some tempo running (which may require a slight drop in volume at first). 

You should check this out.
2010-10-14 3:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
I got the 10% increase and -40% cutback from the free plans on this site and it seemed to be similar to what other plans do. 

So, is the general consensus that it is better to do smaller increases (1-5%) with no cutback?  I am guessing this is potentially a hot topic.

On paper, I do like your idea better though.

2010-10-15 4:14 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
Toward the end there you're getting 35 MPW which is awesome but not doing any runs under 7 miles isn't going to be easy on the body, especially sandwiching your long run in between two runs that are fairly long already.  I don't know how your body would respond to that, but I wouldn't want to try it.  I need a day off after a long run.

It might be a lot easier on the body to work in an extra 3 mile ish recovery run in there. 4 runs a week isn't a lot when you're trying to hit 35 mpw.
2010-10-15 6:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
I am also doing a run focused training this winter. I am doing a slightly different plan and running 6 days a week but cutting my daily run distance down. Right now I run about 25 miles/week on 3 runs. So my plan is to run the same distance per week for the first few weeks with less distance each time I run. It's called the 1,2,3 plan where I do 3 short recovery runs at 2.5 miles, 2 medium runs of 5, and one long run of 7.5. I have realized when I only run three days a week, my mileage for one run is at least 6 miles and my body just doesn't handle it very well. I'm hoping more days a week, but less distance will allow me to increase mileage without getting injured.

Just some food for thought if you could squeeze in a couple more days of shorter distance.
2010-10-15 7:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Winter Training - is there value in switching to just running
jtopham1 - 2010-10-15 5:08 AM

I am also doing a run focused training this winter. I am doing a slightly different plan and running 6 days a week but cutting my daily run distance down. Right now I run about 25 miles/week on 3 runs. So my plan is to run the same distance per week for the first few weeks with less distance each time I run. It's called the 1,2,3 plan where I do 3 short recovery runs at 2.5 miles, 2 medium runs of 5, and one long run of 7.5. I have realized when I only run three days a week, my mileage for one run is at least 6 miles and my body just doesn't handle it very well. I'm hoping more days a week, but less distance will allow me to increase mileage without getting injured.

Just some food for thought if you could squeeze in a couple more days of shorter distance.



smart plan, or even doing them all around the same distance at first, but nice job on thinking frequency first.


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