Triathlete Profile holds True Again (Page 4)

Got YouTube footage of them swimming alone in a pool?

Actually, I'm quite sure that they do flip turns when swimming alone (for a lot of people it's just habitual), but the reality is that flips work better in groups circle-swimming a workout...they are faster for clearing the wall for the next swimmer.  So I wouldn't gauge anything by how someone turns in a masters swim...I'd probably do flips if I ever did masters and I never do them anymore when I'm swimming solo (which is 100% of the time in my case).

The main reason I don't do flip turns, personally, is that over the last three years on a couple of the infrequent occasions that I 've done flips in interval workouts, I've managed to wrench a knee once and my lower back once on missed plants.  Lot harder to miss your footing on a "table turn."  Not interested in taking any sort of chance at setting back my running ever again just for the sake of looking "cool in the pool" when I'm swimming alone.  Could not care less what somebody in another lane who I'd probably lap in a mile run on the track thinks of how I change directions.

really?  [sigh]

http://www.slowtwitch.com/News/The_Carfrae/Dibens_swim_off_1518.html

Yes, she has another swimmer in the pool, but even in warmups.  flips.  Go search you tube for Macca, you'll find him swimmin' and flippin' all by his lonesome.  Was just watching it but teach a man to fish and all  

Personally disagree that flips work best with circle swimming comment, actually IMO they are more difficult in a circle swim cuz you have to move over after the person in front of you turns, not hit the guy behind, etc.  Flips in one lane are easiest and safest and most properly done.  We have 2-3 fast guys in our pool that open turn, they clear the wall as fast as the flippers, having swum both in front and behind them.

At any rate, like I've said (oh, about 3 times) someone doesn't want to/can't do flip turns?  no sweat off my nose. 

Just how far down the rabbit hole can we take a flip turn thread?

Why do people who don't/can't do flip turns take this so personally? I mean, you have to challenge someone to a mile run and assert your dominance because they flip turn?  I find that really curious?



Edited by ChrisM 2010-10-15 6:45 PM

Sometimes I push, a lot of the time I completely miss the wall or only get one foot on there. I figure it just makes me stronger.  

Heck, sometimes I do that when I do flip turns. 

I nominate this the most inane thing I have read in a long time....sorry Dude14 but it really makes no sense. Most pro triathletes, would smoke most of us in the water and would NOT look like "triathletes" in the water. And they would be doing flip turns.

And to the guy who said he'd rather be a good runner than a good swimmer, I'd counter with "I'd rather be a good runner AND good swimmer". :-)

Ok, yeah maybe a little extreme, just trying to say that something as little as a flip turn doesn't make someone a better or worse swimmer

I know how to do flip turns but have never bothered because of the "what the heck, I mostly swim in open water" thing. But this winter I'm going to make a point of learning them. Mainly so when I'm swimming, I can just keep going and be in that meditative zone you get into in a long open water swim. Coming up at the end of the lane, turning around and pushing off the wall again kills the flow for me in the pool, so I am eager to try this. 

Are they the best because they do flip turns or do they do flip turns because they're the best?  And this is a semi-serious question.  If one has the time to devote to hone their swim and be as professional and competitive with it as possible, then it seems logical that they should learn and do flip turns.  I'm not a pro though, barely mediocre actually, and I have limited time to go to the pool.  When I'm sprinting I do open turns without taking a breath at the wall so that wouldn't be a factor. 

It is also a site where beginners come to learn about the sport. Should talking about flip turns be ignored? 

Better swimmers do flip turns, whether they be pool, open water or tri competitors, period, end of story.  I completely agree that there is no requirement that you be able to do flip turns to be a triathlete or, heck, even a swimmer.  If, however, you want to get very serious about your swim training and take the steps to get there, you will eventually add in flip turns. 

And, you are completely wrong about "something as little as a flip turn."  Swimming these days is won or lost off the walls with about 30% being underwater.  This is an aside and probably mostly irrelevant to triathletes since SDKs are not really important to them, unless it is a pool swim tri, in which case it is monumentally important.

I was just at a swim meet for 7/8s.  Every kid did flip turns.  That tells me something.

For a beginner, which this forum is dedicated to, I would spend 0% of my time learning to do flip turns.  I will quickly and easily concede this point.

Edited by H20 Killer 2010-10-15 7:47 PM

Agreed.

Come on people, it's one thing to try and justify your actions, but to claim that turns serve no purpose or that fast swimmers don't do turns is taking the train a bit off the rails. I will double down on ChrisM's bet. Fast swimmers do turns. That's one of the reasons that they were able to get so fast. Draw a line in the sand on, say a 54 minute Ironman swimmer and you won't find a single person doing an open turn (save one to prove the rule, for you math folks). As you get better as a swimmer, effective turns are a way to facilitate improvement. If you are doing turns and getting hurt or pushing off crooked, too deep, out of breath, etc, then you don't have an effective turn. It's not personal, its just a turn. It's like you guys are claiming cycling shoes serve no purpose because the vast majority of your power comes from the downstroke. If you don't like cycling shoes that's ok, but don't claim Lance doesn't need them.

I feel like I'm on BeginnerDuathlete.com or something all of the sudden...

As they should be doing flip turns if they are competing in a swim meet.  But i do agree with you in saying that if you are a beginner and trying to improve your swimming then don't waste your time doing flip turns.

I'm pretty sure that duathletes don't do flip turns -- they can really damage your bike.

(Yes, that was a blatant attempt to derail the derailed thread, which shouldn't have made it past page 1 IMO.)

I started doing flip turns for 2 reasons,

1) A couple of very attractive girls made insulting comments about my "Turtle Turns"

2) My swim coach was insistent that I do the flipping to make my workouts more efficient.

I learned to flip and markedly improved my swimming. I personally don't care if other people flip or not but the benefit I received from the 1-2 hours it took to learn how to do it correctly has paid off.

I can't tell you how many times I have heard this over the years.  It does a make a difference.

And, really, this is the most important reason there is.  Sadly, the most attractive women that swim at my pool inhabit the aquasizing classes and can really make waves.

I started reading some of the posts but got tired of much of the drivel. I did my first triathlon back in 1987.  I've seen many very good triathletes than never learned to flip turn.  Maybe because most swims don't require a flip turn.  Anyway, hear I am almost 50-years old..a mediocre swimmer that never learned to flip. Until this past summer...my 8 & 11 year old taught me.  Now I do them all the time but I'm still slightly slower than when I grabbed the wall.  Hopefully that will change cause I hated people seeing me at the pool thinking I'm another triathlete that doesn't know how to swim.

Works for me!

Wow 5 pages in one day and still growing. Must be getting close to a record?

As a former competitive swimmer, feel I have to weigh in. Flip turns--of course it matters if you're going to compete as a swimmer in the pool. It's not an option!  As a triathlete, unless it's a pool swim, why should it?? Haven't done a flip turn in the ocean yet! It does make your heart rate go up a little as you are underwater without breathing longer; maybe some benefit to that, maybe not. If you are training with swimmers, mastering flips will definitely make you more popular with your lane-mates.

As for the stereotype,  you wouldn't guess me. I'm the skinny, improbable-looking swimmer with no flotation aids or fins, zipping along doing all the strokes and all the turns. The only time you can tell I'm a triathlete is when I do the "long, aerobic swim" (what I think is 1500 meters).  It starts "easy" and gets faster and faster as my body goes on auto-pilot. Sometimes it is actually faster pace, but feels easier, than those tedious sets of 200's, etc.

My problem is I CAN'T COUNT!  I tend to switch strokes on a semi-regular basis as a counting method.  I know there's no point in doing butterfly, backstroke, or breaststroke to train for a tri, but...it breaks up the monotony!  And if you can do other strokes, I think mixing it up once in a while can help prevent injury. By this I mean doing maybe 50-100m of another stroke(s) halfway through a long set, and at the end. The different strokes of the IM (individual medley, not Ironman), really work your whole body and stretch you out, if nothing else. And don't tell me there's no aerobic benefit to butterfly!  (But don't attempt it in the ocean.)

And to the guy who said he'd rather be a good runner than a good swimmer, I'd counter with "I'd rather be a good runner AND good swimmer". :-)

I tried learning flip turns, but it didn't work out. I think it was because the guy who I asked to help me out was a triathlete himself and was doing them pretty wonky.

Now I use a modified flip turn. Hit the wall, and then turn myself off of the wall and push myself under water. It's a pain in the butt and it shoots my heart rate up every 50 (25 until the summer ), so I guess that makes it an effective workout. <---bad logic

I tried to teach a swim client swim turns. He wanted to learn.

We practiced just doing flips away from the wall.

He got dizzy and said he was done learning them.

True story.