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2005-08-03 8:17 AM

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Subject: Setting Realistic Expectations
Last night as I was coming home from my TRIUMPHANT OW SWIM! (no freakouts) my training partner told me. "Fifteen years ago I ran 8 minute miles without even trying. I bet by next summer I am running 7 minute miles". I was more than a little skeptical and pooed on his parade. Right now he runs a 13-14 minute mile. He claims that by losing weight (he is 5'10" and 220) he will shave five minutes off a mile. I say BULL! Yes it will cut his time down, no doubt but I know a lot of Clydes that are fast, really fast and it is not all about the weight. He is running a 43.5 minute 5K today. He is talking about running a 21 minute 5K by next summer. He is 42 btw.

I also hear people, in their first season of running say "Oh I bet I can run a marathon in September" Yes, yes I am planning a marathon this year but I have been a runner training for a marathon in the recent past and while I was on bedrest for months it did not take me as long to come back as I thought it would. I am putting in the miles and respecting the distance. I know I will do it but I also know it ain't gonna happen in a Boston qualifying time.

I don't want to poo on people's dreams and I never want anyone to poo on mine but sometimes a little poo must fall. Can he run 7 minute miles again? Oh yes, he probably can. can he do it by next summer? Ummm probably not. Especially since he runs once a week on average. I am a little afraid of what will happen when he does his sprint tri in September. He is just not putting in the work and respecting the distance. He says "well it's only __________ (5k run, 13.1 mile bike, 500 m swim)" and it is but it is all those things one after the other. I believe he will finish but I also suspect he will feel pretty beat up afterwards.

It's his life and if he wants to believe he will be running that fast then he heard what I had to say and dismissed it. I just think that unrealistic expectations is one of the things that make people quit in this sport. They think they are going to always make the improvements they did in the first season and that is not always going to happen. As one BT member told me last weekend: "It takes a lot to shave a minute off a mile". She was dead on.


2005-08-03 8:26 AM
in reply to: #214797

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations
There is nothing wrong with dreaming.  True, going from 13/14 min miles to 7 min miles is, to say the least, a gigantic dream!  You say that he "used" to run 8 min miles so I presume that he laid off for a few years, got older and put on weight.  The odds of his achieving that 7 min mile are fairly slim but not unattainable.  He will, of course, have to lose a lot of weight and do a lot of track work.  His best bet would be to find a good running coach and to consult with a nutritionist if he really means to go through with this. 
2005-08-03 8:28 AM
in reply to: #214797

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations

What's wrong with setting a goal that may be a bit of a stretch? You think he would ever achieve it if he didn't dream it first? Though it doesn't sound like his work ethic and "once a week" training sessions will make it possible...

I also hear people, in their first season of running say "Oh I bet I can run a marathon in September" And through my affiliation with Team In Training, I've seen dozens of people do it. Don't recommend it, but it's very doable. But you do have to envision it first, the be willing to put in the time to accomplish it.



Edited by the bear 2005-08-03 8:29 AM
2005-08-03 8:28 AM
in reply to: #214804

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations
Right now I think he just needs to out in a base and be able to run three miles without stopping or sounding like a steam engine. The last time he ran an 8 minute mile was 15 years ago. He is 42 now. Like I said, I don't want to poo on his dream but by next summer?
2005-08-03 8:30 AM
in reply to: #214807

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations
Oh I believe in dreaming. See last weeks post about my IM goals. I am not saying that. I am saying that to drop 7 minutes off a mile in a year is going to set yourself up for failure.

And if it is Team In Training why are the initials TNT?? HMMMM???
2005-08-03 8:34 AM
in reply to: #214797

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations
Let him set his goal. You may be doing the right thing as a training partner by pushing him (motivating him) to reach it.

I love turning "You can't" into "I will".


2005-08-03 8:35 AM
in reply to: #214808

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations

nliedel - 2005-08-03 6:28 AM  Like I said, I don't want to poo on his dream

But isn't that what you're doing?  You posted that he made disparaging comments about you doing a triathlon, and now you're posting about his 'unrealistic' expectations.  Maybe he CAN get to 7m/m by next summer.  (And maybe I can swim 1.5k in 20 minutes...)  I don't see a question in your post; do you have one, or are you just looking for support for your thoughts?

2005-08-03 8:36 AM
in reply to: #214797

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations
nliedel - 2005-08-03 8:17 AM
I just think that unrealistic expectations is one of the things that make people quit in this sport. They think they are going to always make the improvements they did in the first season and that is not always going to happen. As one BT member told me last weekend: "It takes a lot to shave a minute off a mile". She was dead on.


First off, congrats on your OW swim!

Maybe your friend is just talking to hear himself. Do you think he really expects to reach 7 min/mi or is he just letting his alligator mouth talk for his hummingbird butt?

IMHO, it's more about personality as to whether you quit when your unrealistic goals aren't met. It seems that there are people who are motivated to take a hard look at what they're doing and are willing to work harder once their goals aren't met, and people who get mad, take their toys and go home. So when your training partner does his sprint and comes in well over his expected time, is he the kind of person to think "Hm, maybe that run goal isn't reachable next summer, and certainly not if I don't work more, so I guess I need to restructure my training to support my goals"? Or is he the kind of person to get discouraged and quit in a torrent of excuses?

FWIW, I think you're right to rain on his parade a little bit...if he goes out trying to build speed too quickly he will hurt himself. Of course, a hamstring injury is a really convenient (if painful) way to not reach that unrealistic goal.....
2005-08-03 8:37 AM
in reply to: #214820

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations
joeinco - 2005-08-03 9:35 AM

nliedel - 2005-08-03 6:28 AM  Like I said, I don't want to poo on his dream

But isn't that what you're doing?  You posted that he made disparaging comments about you doing a triathlon, and now you're posting about his 'unrealistic' expectations.  Maybe he CAN get to 7m/m by next summer.  (And maybe I can swim 1.5k in 20 minutes...)  I don't see a question in your post; do you have one, or are you just looking for support for your thoughts?



No just thoughts mostly. Well when he made the crack about my triathlon dreams I was sitting on the couch eating chips and was 320lbs. It was a pretty unrealistic goal and I don't really blame him for making the crack. Where is the line between a supportable dream and setting a goal so high that you quit when you don't get there?

Edited by nliedel 2005-08-03 8:38 AM
2005-08-03 8:44 AM
in reply to: #214824

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations

nliedel - 2005-08-03 6:37 AM Where is the line between a supportable dream and setting a goal so high that you quit when you don't get there?

Depends who you are.  If you're Lance, that line is MUCH higher than the average person's.  Right now, I have a goal that's higher than my SO is willing to support.  That's just making difficulties for us.  I suggest that you support him, show him www.halhigdon.com for training info, and see what happens.  When he doesn't make his goal, don't you DARE use the 'I told you so' line, and instead help him realize just how far he did come.

2005-08-03 8:45 AM
in reply to: #214809

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations

nliedel - 2005-08-03 7:30 AM And if it is Team In Training why are the initials TNT?? HMMMM???

The real initials never caught on with the marketing people.



2005-08-03 8:47 AM
in reply to: #214840

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations
the bear - 2005-08-03 8:45 AM

nliedel - 2005-08-03 7:30 AM And if it is Team In Training why are the initials TNT?? HMMMM???

The real initials never caught on with the marketing people.



I would have been able to come up with a good logo for them otherwise...
2005-08-03 8:47 AM
in reply to: #214838

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations
joeinco - 2005-08-03 9:44 AM

nliedel - 2005-08-03 6:37 AM Where is the line between a supportable dream and setting a goal so high that you quit when you don't get there?

Depends who you are.  If you're Lance, that line is MUCH higher than the average person's.  Right now, I have a goal that's higher than my SO is willing to support.  That's just making difficulties for us.  I suggest that you support him, show him www.halhigdon.com for training info, and see what happens.  When he doesn't make his goal, don't you DARE use the 'I told you so' line, and instead help him realize just how far he did come.



I don't ever in my life think I have once said "I told you so" in a serious conversation. it just isn't me.

I do want to make the disclaimer that I *have* said it while talking smack and to people who didn't think they could do something and I did. "See I told you that you could eat the whole iguana, and doubted yourself". Something like that. Not ever "see I told you that it would be a waste of your time".. Not once that I can recall. I will have to call my hubby to be sure cause he has a memory for stuff I say in the moment.


Edited by nliedel 2005-08-03 8:55 AM
2005-08-03 8:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations
the bear - 2005-08-03 7:45 AM

nliedel - 2005-08-03 7:30 AM And if it is Team In Training why are the initials TNT?? HMMMM???

The real initials never caught on with the marketing people.



well if it had, I mighta signed up for more events...
2005-08-03 8:48 AM
in reply to: #214843

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations
tommyd - 2005-08-03 9:47 AM

the bear - 2005-08-03 8:45 AM

nliedel - 2005-08-03 7:30 AM And if it is Team In Training why are the initials TNT?? HMMMM???

The real initials never caught on with the marketing people.



I would have been able to come up with a good logo for them otherwise...


I think the real initials are funny and smart. I get very fed up with people being prudes. It's just a boob people, nothing to see here, now move along.
2005-08-03 8:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations
"I think the real initials are funny and smart. I get very fed up with people being prudes. It's just a boob people, nothing to see here, now move along."


BLASPEHEMY!


2005-08-03 8:52 AM
in reply to: #214797

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations
LOL, ok that was good. How about realistic and attainable goals with milestones and a strategy. If he's just dreaming, that's ok too. I'd like to set weight loss goals where I would ultimately disappear but it ain't gonna happen.
TNT or TIT hmmm I could see proclaiming "I'm a TiT" LOL
2005-08-03 8:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations

If he's motivated, eats right and trains consistently, I wouldn't bet against him. I'm 41, smoked for 26 years, my weight was 20-30 lbs more than it is now for some time. I had zero athletic background or experience after the age of 12. My innate physiology is by no means anything but average.

I started running in September of 2003 doing 12-13 minute miles and in June of this year I did a 3.5 mile race in 24'36" (a 7'02" pace). 

His goal is entirely reachable, and making improvements in performance for a few years is certainly possible. Barring injury, I fully intend to. When asked about this, Mark Allen replied to the effect that if one is just starting out, it's reasonable to expect improvements for 5 years or more regardless of age.

2005-08-03 8:57 AM
in reply to: #214863

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations
Ok so you dropped to 7 minute miles in two years. I think that is doable for him. 100% realistic and possible. Where I am thinking he is setting himself up is to do it by NEXT summer.
2005-08-03 9:00 AM
in reply to: #214862

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations
gullahcracker - 2005-08-03 9:52 AM

LOL, ok that was good. How about realistic and attainable goals with milestones and a strategy. If he's just dreaming, that's ok too. I'd like to set weight loss goals where I would ultimately disappear but it ain't gonna happen.
TNT or TIT hmmm I could see proclaiming "I'm a TiT" LOL


Good lord let's not talk about weight loss goals. I am just sick that my weight is not coming off no matter how hard I work. I had to adjust my weight loss goals from 40 lbs in six months to 40 lbs in a year! Ugh. I just keep telling myself that every pound that is gone is gone for life and get over the slowness.

BTW why would you want to disapeer?
2005-08-03 9:03 AM
in reply to: #214874

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations
nliedel - 2005-08-03 9:00 AM

BTW why would you want to disapeer?

Well maybe not disappear but definitely lose some more weight.


2005-08-03 9:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations

It was 1.75 years and included periods where I was sidedlined due to illness, injury and/or surgery. I agree that it's a bit of a stretch, but for the average person I don't believe it's impossible if they're motivated, don't get hurt, eat well and train smartly and consistently.

2005-08-03 9:06 AM
in reply to: #214797

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations

You peed in his Wheaties! I wouldn't run with you. Talk about sucking the joy out of dream.

If someone told me that my response would be:

Go for it! What an ambitious but attainable goal. Let's get there together. Do we need a plan or shall we wing it?

2005-08-03 9:09 AM
in reply to: #214887

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations
I actually did not post my response to him which was not "you cannot do that" it was instead: "Well if you want to do that lay off the Taco Bell and get your a$$ in your running shoes more than once a week".
2005-08-03 9:11 AM
in reply to: #214893

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Subject: RE: Setting Realistic Expectations

nliedel - 2005-08-03 10:09 AM I actually did not post my response to him which was not "you cannot do that" it was instead: "Well if you want to do that lay off the Taco Bell and get your a$$ in your running shoes more than once a week".

Which was the absolute correct response. He should call you "Coach".

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