General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Swim workouts - speed vs. long and slow Rss Feed  
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2011-01-13 3:09 PM

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Subject: Swim workouts - speed vs. long and slow
I am just curious about others opinions. Currently I can swim comfortably up to 2k meters. I am not fast (average about 2:10 per 100) but can do it, and can probably go farther but have not yet. Given that for this year, my main race is a half marathon, but I am planning 1 or 2 tris (sprints, maybe an Olympic), would it be wise to focus on speed sets once a week or once every other week to see if it helps me get faster? This is also part of a longer term goal of a HIM next year (I hope) and a full Ironman the year after that when I turn 30 (is it that soon! geez!)

If speed sets are a good idea at this point are there any good books out there which outline good sets to do and goals to aim for on them. (otherwise I will end up doing things like 6x50 or 6x100 and seeing how fast I can do each set etc)

Currently my technique is what I would consider good. Not perfect but it gets better with every swim so I am not to worried about that issue.


2011-01-13 3:18 PM
in reply to: #3297921

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Subject: RE: Swim workouts - speed vs. long and slow
You don't need to work on sprinting, but you should be working at swimming harder/faster than your cruising 2,000 meter pace. In fact, I would say the only reason to swim 2K straight would be if you think you need to prove to yourself that you could do it before a race. Do, reps of 50s, 100s, 200s or whatever, but push yourself. Set your interval so that you get a little rest between each rep, but not so much that you're fully recovered. Typically I set my intervals so that I get between 5 seconds and 15 seconds rest between each repetition. If I have 15 seconds rest before each rep, that means I can work those harder, since I have more time to recover between reps.

Sorry, don't have a book of sets for you, but I think there are some websites around that have some ideas.

-Matt
2011-01-13 3:33 PM
in reply to: #3297921

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Subject: RE: Swim workouts - speed vs. long and slow
I'm by no means a swimming expert but I can speak from experience on this.  When I was working on building my swim last summer, I started with sets of 50.  Until I could comfortably hold my form for most of my sets.  Then I threw in a few 100s.  Then multiple 100s.  then 150s, then 200s, etc. etc.  Not only did I build speed (dropped my 100 sets from 1:50 to 1:30) but I also built great endurance as well.

I also use the same 5-15 seconds of rest analogy.  If you are thinking of increasing your interval distance (IE 50-100) shorten the amount of rest.  Focus on form and the speed will come.
2011-01-13 3:34 PM
in reply to: #3297921

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Master
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Subject: RE: Swim workouts - speed vs. long and slow
You don't need a special book.

speed focus
3 sets of 24x25 w/ 10seconds rest

endurance focus
20x100 w/ 10-15seconds rest
8x50, 4x100, 2x200, 8x50 w/ 10seconds rest
5x400
10x200

whatever...it will all work better than 2000 straight


It's not all about "speed sets".   If your technique falls apart half way through that than you are just reinforcing poor technique.  The little bit of rest lets you hit the pace a little better so you are gaining speed and power while at the same time holding good form. 

I'm no fish but have been getting better the past few months and am just regurgitating what has been told to me...


2011-01-13 3:42 PM
in reply to: #3297921

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Master
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Subject: RE: Swim workouts - speed vs. long and slow
I don't do long and continuous. The longest I go is 500, and that is for a WU. I started swimming with an ex-collegiate swimmer a few seasons ago and he has helped dropped my swim times by a lot. Mostly instead of swimming lots of continuous slow yardage, he has me do lots of sets, especially when they descend. A favorite of mine:

500 WU
5 x 100, 15 sec rest
6 x 300, descend 1-3, 4-6
200 CD
-------
3000 yards

By the 6th 300 during the main set of 300's, its funny that you feel the worst, but yet you can still put up the fastest split....then I usually find a rock to crawl under! ha!

Those kinds of swim workouts (for me) paid dividends come race day.
2011-01-13 3:42 PM
in reply to: #3297921

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Subject: RE: Swim workouts - speed vs. long and slow
That all makes sense. Thanks to the above posters. I guess I was more thinking of shorter quicker sets vs. longer slower, not necessarily focusing on speed. I will start adding in some of those shorter sets with short rest and see how it goes. If I can maintain my form for them etc.



2011-01-13 4:15 PM
in reply to: #3298041

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Subject: RE: Swim workouts - speed vs. long and slow
I used to be like you, and I still think for confidence it is good to be able to do the distance straight but not your full focus....I started doing faster sets similar to those posted above and have become a stronger swimmer, but I still throw in that long swim every once in awhile
2011-01-13 4:28 PM
in reply to: #3298117

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Subject: RE: Swim workouts - speed vs. long and slow
FELTGood - 2011-01-13 4:15 PMI used to be like you, and I still think for confidence it is good to be able to do the distance straight but not your full focus....I started doing faster sets similar to those posted above and have become a stronger swimmer, but I still throw in that long swim every once in awhile
+1 seems like for me set work has increased my speed, but decreased my confidence in the longer swims, as I feel the urge to keep the pace closer to set work pace on longer swims, so I try to work in a long slow swim where I allow myself to cruise just to get the distance in.
2011-01-13 4:34 PM
in reply to: #3297921

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Subject: RE: Swim workouts - speed vs. long and slow
Swimming long and slow trains you to do just that. I'd take the advice most people have already mentioned. Just do not fall into the trap to try to 'sprint' all of the time. Make sure you don't select a speed in which you are not able to hold your good form.
2011-01-13 5:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim workouts - speed vs. long and slow

Well, now that you know your T-pace, these will help too.

Warmup
5x100 @ Tpace +5" (ie: if Tpace is 2:10/100, these are at 2:15 interval) w/1' RI afterwards
5x100 @ Tpace  (...2:10 interval) w/ 1'RI afterwards
5x100 @ Tpace -5" (...2:05 interval) w/ 1'RI afterwards
5x100 @ Tpace -10" (...2:00 interval) w/ 1'RI afterwards

There's your 2000m too.

Another:
4x (4x100 @ 10" RI) descending 5" each set of 4. (ie: first set ~2:10, 2:05, 2:00, 1:55)

Another (these hurts bad!)
Warmup
4x100 descending
10x50 @ 10"RI (Time the whole thing, subtract out the RI and record your time. Try again in a month)
3x300 pull
10x75 @15"RI (Time the whole thing, subtract out the RI and record your time. Try again in a month)
CD

2011-01-13 9:25 PM
in reply to: #3297921

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Subject: RE: Swim workouts - speed vs. long and slow
Do sets like those described.  You will improve significantly.

Something that one of the other posters touched on, but didn't really emphasize was the importance of finding a pace that's hard enough for your intervals that you need to work, but easy enough that your form doesn't break down while holding the same pace for each interval, or even descending.

If I'm aiming for a steady pace, I try to have less than a 3 or 4 second varience from my fastest interval to my slowest. (This is if I'm doing 100's.  If it's 50's, then I try to only have a 2 second varience.  Longer intervals, a little more.)

If I'm descending, then all bets are off.  If it's sets of 100's, descending every 4, the first one may be a cruising/active recovery speed, the second one a solid effort with a little discomfort, the third one hurts a little, and the 4th one is an all-out pain fest.  Then the cycle starts again with the 5th one at an active recovery level of effort.

Holding a steady pace or decending can help condition you to maintain the faster pace for a longer distance, plus help with the mental toughness to push through the pain when you're tired and hurting while maintaining good form.

If your form breaks down completely, then you need to swim at an easier effort level.


Edited by TriMyBest 2011-01-13 9:27 PM


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