Ethical Hypothetical

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2011-03-05 9:01 AM

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Subject: Ethical Hypothetical
I had an interesting dream last night. I was a hundred meters or so away from the end of the bike leg on my first iron distance race. I heard a commotion as I passed a few racers. One was injured in some way and bleeding slightly. I offered use of a first aid kit (which I don't carry). I knew she was near T2 and could get medical attention. I kept looking back wanting to help, but not wanting to stop either. Under what circumstance would you actually stop and offer assistance potentially jeopardizing your race (time goals/finishing)?

2011-03-05 9:13 AM
in reply to: #3383839


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Subject: RE: Ethical Hypothetical
anytime I see someone on the ground, I stop to help. My motto "treat others as you yourself would want to be treated." I would hope to hell someone would stop and help me if I needed it.

There's only so much you can do if you're not carrying supplies or trained. I would at least slow down/stop to confirm that the person was ok. And make sure help got there. Of course, I'm one of the athletes who hopes to sign up for an ironman to cross the finish line. I'm not so much worried about time/placement.
2011-03-05 9:32 AM
in reply to: #3383839

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Subject: RE: Ethical Hypothetical
I've never done iron distance, but assuming I had some help or aid to offer, the time I might lose helping the person to T2 or alerting a race official to provide assistance, would be such a tiny fraction of my race time that I think I'd do it. If I kept going when my action could have made a difference for that person, the guilt would bother me.
2011-03-05 9:49 AM
in reply to: #3383839

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Subject: RE: Ethical Hypothetical
This is always a great story about competitors helping each other out and possibly giving up a Kona spot in the process. http://ironman.com/columns/ironmanlife/kevin-mackinnon-catches-up-w...
2011-03-05 10:00 AM
in reply to: #3383839

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Subject: RE: Ethical Hypothetical

I would 100% stop it is one of my frustrations in the world if somebody walks (or indeed cycle etc) past somebody who is in need of help. Even if you just talk to them while somebody else gets help its better than nothing. Grrrr sorry

Of course if theres other people already there then you can ask if they need help if not peddle on!



Edited by purpleshoes2 2011-03-05 10:10 AM
2011-03-05 10:07 AM
in reply to: #3383839

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Subject: RE: Ethical Hypothetical

I had similar thoughts before my first IM...what would I do?

In my 3 Ironman races (and other races as well some it is harder when I'm moving faster and don't see them ahead of time) I always ask if folks need help when they are on the side of the road. Typically racers in front of me asked the same thing and have passed on the need for help. Other times there are other athletes or volunteers already there helping out.

Here on BT I recall Bob Stocks seeing someone who had some type of an bad bike accident in IM bike, stop, help and wait until medical folks to come. I know others have done similar thing.

2011-03-05 11:22 AM
in reply to: #3383839

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Subject: RE: Ethical Hypothetical

I always ask someone if they need help.   Fortunately I've never encountered someone seriously injured.  

I don't see how someone could not stop in good conscience, especially if there was no one else there rendering aid.

Mark
2011-03-05 11:54 AM
in reply to: #3383839

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Subject: RE: Ethical Hypothetical

For me it all depends. In training when I see a cyclist stopped I always ask if they are ok or need anything. I do the same in a race if it is out on a "remote" part of the course. In other areas of a race, where there are lots of spectators, volunteers, and medical professionals around (in your dream you were very close to transition) I would not stop.

Rule of thumb for me is if I am the only person around that can help, I stop. If there are others who can help, and can help better than me, I do not.

2011-03-05 12:25 PM
in reply to: #3383839

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Subject: RE: Ethical Hypothetical

On the trail / road if I see a cyclist / runner down or ill I will stop. No question. In a fully supported race like you describe. (Unless I was the first person to come upon them) I keep racing and tell the first medical person or course marshal I see.

That’s what I’d expect if it were me. If I’m out inTimbuktu, I’d expect you to stop and help me. But if it’s an organized race, just send help. I’d rather you be heading for help at 25mph then trying to assist me with no first aid supplies.

 Gee, I hope that doesn’t make me a jerk.

2011-03-05 12:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Ethical Hypothetical
Same as above, stop, see if there is anything I can do immediately then off to get some help.  If I was down I suppose it would be nice to have someone there but unless they are a Dr, Nurse, EMT, paramedic, or Geico sales person I would much rather know that real help is on the way.
2011-03-05 3:35 PM
in reply to: #3383992

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Subject: RE: Ethical Hypothetical
halfmarathondon - 2011-03-05 10:25 AM

On the trail / road if I see a cyclist / runner down or ill I will stop. No question. In a fully supported race like you describe. (Unless I was the first person to come upon them) I keep racing and tell the first medical person or course marshal I see.

That’s what I’d expect if it were me. If I’m out inTimbuktu, I’d expect you to stop and help me. But if it’s an organized race, just send help. I’d rather you be heading for help at 25mph then trying to assist me with no first aid supplies.



x2 

2011-03-05 4:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Ethical Hypothetical
halfmarathondon - 2011-03-05 12:25 PM

On the trail / road if I see a cyclist / runner down or ill I will stop. No question. In a fully supported race like you describe. (Unless I was the first person to come upon them) I keep racing and tell the first medical person or course marshal I see.

That’s what I’d expect if it were me. If I’m out inTimbuktu, I’d expect you to stop and help me. But if it’s an organized race, just send help. I’d rather you be heading for help at 25mph then trying to assist me with no first aid supplies.

 Gee, I hope that doesn’t make me a jerk.

This is the right answer, unless you are trained to help the other racer and have the stuff with you to provide support.  In an IM there is an aid station every 10 miles on the ride, and every mile on the run.  Get TO the next aid station and yell, "There is some back x miles back that needs help."  You can even stop if you need to explain further.  But by all means, make sure that the race officials know.

2011-03-05 8:33 PM
in reply to: #3383961

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Subject: RE: Ethical Hypothetical
mrbbrad - 2011-03-05 12:54 PM

For me it all depends. In training when I see a cyclist stopped I always ask if they are ok or need anything. I do the same in a race if it is out on a "remote" part of the course. In other areas of a race, where there are lots of spectators, volunteers, and medical professionals around (in your dream you were very close to transition) I would not stop.

Rule of thumb for me is if I am the only person around that can help, I stop. If there are others who can help, and can help better than me, I do not.

X2.....I am not professional if I stop for 5 min to be sure someone is ok that's fine.....no one cares what time you finish except you so if you stop for several minutes in your mind you know how much time you could have finished...... If it costs you a kona spot it would be horrible but not as horrible leaving someone seriously hurt and you are the only one there to help....with that said if they are not in grave danger I would be sure they are stable and move on and tell a race official
2011-03-05 8:50 PM
in reply to: #3383992

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Subject: RE: Ethical Hypothetical
halfmarathondon - 2011-03-05 7:25 AM

On the trail / road if I see a cyclist / runner down or ill I will stop. No question. In a fully supported race like you describe. (Unless I was the first person to come upon them) I keep racing and tell the first medical person or course marshal I see.

That’s what I’d expect if it were me. If I’m out inTimbuktu, I’d expect you to stop and help me. But if it’s an organized race, just send help. I’d rather you be heading for help at 25mph then trying to assist me with no first aid supplies.

 Gee, I hope that doesn’t make me a jerk.

x4. 

Always stop for a crash victim during training. 

The only time I would stop during a race is if I saw the crash happen.  In which case I may be able to assist with immediate aid...such as helping the rider get themselves and their bike off the road (assuming the could move on their own).  Or if they couldn't move, alert other riders so they don't get runned over.

If I see them sitting on the side, so long as they aren't unconsious or bleeding to death, I'll just relay the message for help.  There's nothing I can do for them at that point.

That's what I would expect others to do for me if I was the crash victim...so I can sleep at night



Edited by tri808 2011-03-05 8:52 PM
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