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2011-03-06 2:19 PM

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Subject: How to train for a "Back to back"

Hi Everyone,

I finally sat down and made some race plans for the season.

There was one idea I have been towing with for a while now and I finally put it in my race calendar and if all works out and I stay injury free I would like to go for it.

It is a challenge called "Extreme Half" and you do a Sprint Tri (700m, 24K, 7k) on Saturday followed by an Half-Ironman on Sunday.

I have done both the sprint (2009) and the HIM (2010) as individual races but this year I thought it could be fun to spice things up and do them both.

One thing I have not figured out yet, is how to train for something like this? Is normal HIM training enough or do I need to add volume/distance/intensity?

Has anyone every done something like this? I know that I probably need a pretty good race strategy for the Saturday race in order to be able to perform good in the HIM Sunday but is there anything else to consider?

Thanks for your help



2011-03-06 3:38 PM
in reply to: #3385105

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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"
If you are trained for the half i wouldn't change anything but the recovery and taper.

2011-03-06 10:36 PM
in reply to: #3385105

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Master
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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"
I did the Revolution at Rev 3 Quazzy Olympic on Saturday and HIM on Sunday last year and will be doing it again this year. As far as training goes I never really did anything special, train for a HIM. Maybe throw a few weekend double brick sessions, but if you do a long ride and long run back to back most heavy weeks you should be fine. As far as the race goes don't try and crush either race and really let the HIM come to you. If you can get a post race massage on Saturday at the race that works wonders, and remember to eat well and get to bed early, so your tanks are topped off for Sunday. A good recovery drink like UltraGen helps alot too.

Good luck and have fun!
2011-03-07 2:44 AM
in reply to: #3385105

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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"
As others have said, I don't think you need to alter your training much from half IM training.  I've done back to back races at Wildflower (half + Oly) a couple times and one big difference for me was making sure I slept well the night before which was probably just about recovery (I had my half first though).  You'll obviously not want to hammer on the sprint since that's merely the prelude to the half.  Have fun.  Doing back to back races is an interesting/different challenge.
2011-03-07 3:28 AM
in reply to: #3385105

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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"

Just think of the sprint as a warm up and take it easy.  Dont try to beat your previous times, enjoy it and get ready for sunday.

2011-03-07 6:15 AM
in reply to: #3385105

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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"

I have no experience in the matter, but am in the same situation. I'm planning on doing AG Nationals and then a marathon on back to back weekends in August. I get eight days in between!!!!!

As others have said, train for the half and the sprint will take care of itself, just don't kill yourself on the sprint.



2011-03-07 8:28 AM
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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"
If you are following a plan.. Sprint could be considered a workout.. you should be fine to do both a week apart..
2011-03-07 8:37 AM
in reply to: #3385105

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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"
Joblin - 2011-03-06 3:19 PM

Hi Everyone,

I finally sat down and made some race plans for the season.

There was one idea I have been towing with for a while now and I finally put it in my race calendar and if all works out and I stay injury free I would like to go for it.

It is a challenge called "Extreme Half" and you do a Sprint Tri (700m, 24K, 7k) on Saturday followed by an Half-Ironman on Sunday.

I have done both the sprint (2009) and the HIM (2010) as individual races but this year I thought it could be fun to spice things up and do them both.

One thing I have not figured out yet, is how to train for something like this? Is normal HIM training enough or do I need to add volume/distance/intensity?

Has anyone every done something like this? I know that I probably need a pretty good race strategy for the Saturday race in order to be able to perform good in the HIM Sunday but is there anything else to consider?

Thanks for your help

Maybe it's me but this seems like no big deal. When I first read it I thought I read that you do the sprint on Saturday and then 24 hours later do the HIM. With a week in between it's no problem, IMHO. Depending on your training plan, a sprint tri might even leave you a bit short in terms of time for your workout that day. The beginner half iron plan here on BT calls for an 80 minute workout the Monday before a Sunday HIM race day.

Personally, I'd do the HIM training plan with no changes. I'd do the sprint as a workout. The only question is how hard do you want to go. I'd go hard but not all out.

My $.02, not a coach.

2011-03-07 10:55 AM
in reply to: #3385105

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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"

Thanks for all your advise

But some might have misunderstood this.

The Sprint is on Saturday at 12pm and the HIM is the day AFTER (not a week after) at 12pm. Thats why they call it the "extreme". A week in between would be no big deal at all.

I will do HIM training but maybe add some volume on some weekends to simulate the race and see what happens



Edited by Joblin 2011-03-07 10:57 AM
2011-03-07 1:04 PM
in reply to: #3386256

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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"
Joblin - 2011-03-07 11:55 AM

Thanks for all your advise

But some might have misunderstood this.

The Sprint is on Saturday at 12pm and the HIM is the day AFTER (not a week after) at 12pm. Thats why they call it the "extreme". A week in between would be no big deal at all.

I will do HIM training but maybe add some volume on some weekends to simulate the race and see what happens



thats changes everything... did you plan this??? its doable but its gonna hurt. hurt BAD!!!

good luck with it

personally i would not do the sprint.
2011-03-07 1:16 PM
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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"

I don't see it as a big deal.  Will be a great warm up for the HIM.  Just don't kill yourself.  Would just go with HIM training and the sprint will follow.  I am running a HIM on a Sunday and a sprint on Weds in the summer and I am not going to worry about the Sprint and put my focus on the HIM. 

 

I think the biggest challenge in the mental piece. "Can I do it?"  Yes



2011-03-07 1:55 PM
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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"

This is an easy question!

Your HIM training will have you plenty fit for the Sprint.  Do nothing different in your training (I say this unless you have aspirations of winning/placing in the Sprint and just want to finish the half).

No special race strategy needed.  Just bang the race hard, then eat a LOT, then sleep well, drink until you are making more trips to the bathroom than you are used to and the next day you will be fine for the half.  In fact, you will do BETTER in the half than you would have if you'd taken the day before completely off, which many people mistakenly do.

Every season I end up doing 2-3 or more weekends with double headers.  The 2nd day I often feel better than the first.  There seems to be a temporary boost that comes from a short, hard effort.  But once I tried 3 races in a weekend and it really didn't work out well. 

 

 

2011-03-07 2:24 PM
in reply to: #3386739

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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"
Just bang the race hard, then eat a LOT, then sleep well, drink until you are making more trips to the bathroom than you are used to and the next day you will be fine for the half. 


I'm doing this kind of racing 2x this year, with the American Triple-T Ohio as a Sprint on Friday, Two Olympic Tri's Saturday, and a Half-Iron on Sunday. Did this race last year and had a blast. In July I'm doing the Musselman Sprint on Saturday and the Half-Iron on Sunday. For TTT, I'll train a bit more volume than for a HIM but less than for an IM. For Musselman I'll just do HIM training.

Agree with the quoted above that your race success hinges on pacing and recovery. I'm taking the early races (Sprints + Oly's) as warm ups -- just smiling, enjoying the scenery and keeping a pace at which I could maintain a bit of a conversation.

After I cross the finish line, it's all about taking in fluids, replenishing spent carbs, and eating some lean protein. Stretch everything that is even remotely sore, hit the foam roller, and grab an ice bath. Compression tights if that's your thing. Sleep as well as you can and pace the HIM according to your plan. As always, have as much fun as humanly possible
2011-03-08 9:46 AM
in reply to: #3386609

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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"
momo - 2011-03-07 7:04 PM
Joblin - 2011-03-07 11:55 AM

Thanks for all your advise

But some might have misunderstood this.

The Sprint is on Saturday at 12pm and the HIM is the day AFTER (not a week after) at 12pm. Thats why they call it the "extreme". A week in between would be no big deal at all.

I will do HIM training but maybe add some volume on some weekends to simulate the race and see what happens

thats changes everything... did you plan this??? its doable but its gonna hurt. hurt BAD!!! good luck with it personally i would not do the sprint.

The sprint and the HIM is treated as ONE event if you register for the "extreme". Both times will be combined for placing in your age group and so on.

2011-03-08 9:49 AM
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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"

Thanks to Jeffy and Yeats for sharing your experience. Sounds like a good plan and thanks for reminding me of how important the recovery period after the sprint TRI is.

Will see how training goes

2011-03-08 9:52 AM
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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"

yeats - 2011-03-07 3:24 PM
Just bang the race hard, then eat a LOT, then sleep well, drink until you are making more trips to the bathroom than you are used to and the next day you will be fine for the half. 
I'm doing this kind of racing 2x this year, with the American Triple-T Ohio as a Sprint on Friday, Two Olympic Tri's Saturday, and a Half-Iron on Sunday. Did this race last year and had a blast. In July I'm doing the Musselman Sprint on Saturday and the Half-Iron on Sunday. For TTT, I'll train a bit more volume than for a HIM but less than for an IM. For Musselman I'll just do HIM training. Agree with the quoted above that your race success hinges on pacing and recovery. I'm taking the early races (Sprints + Oly's) as warm ups -- just smiling, enjoying the scenery and keeping a pace at which I could maintain a bit of a conversation. After I cross the finish line, it's all about taking in fluids, replenishing spent carbs, and eating some lean protein. Stretch everything that is even remotely sore, hit the foam roller, and grab an ice bath. Compression tights if that's your thing. Sleep as well as you can and pace the HIM according to your plan. As always, have as much fun as humanly possible

This.

And emphasis on going easy the first race. Resist the temptation to go fast. It will catch up to you. Oh, and stay off your feet when you're not racing. Easy to get caught up in the touristy thing, the expo, spectating, dinner and sights, but it extends time on your feet - don't need to burn those matches unless you're racing.



2011-03-08 10:27 AM
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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"

FWIW, I don't think that you need to take the sprint race easy.  I think you can do the sprint hard and still be fully recovered for the HIM the next day.

But you can gauge this earlier in the season by finding one or more Saturday Sprint tris, then testing the waters by doing a longer brick workout the following day...see how you feel.

 

2011-03-08 10:32 AM
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Subject: RE: How to train for a "Back to back"

Sounds like a fun challenge.

I haven't done anything similar but have considered the TTT.

How you recover best I would think is important.

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