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2011-03-06 11:11 PM

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Subject: Heart rate too high (running)?

I am a clyde (220lbs; 5'11") and been trying to prep myself for a Tri in next 6-months. Although, I have been spinning 2-3/week and doing some light running my heart doesn't seem to be getting strong. I easily hit 175-180 heart rate (using a watch style monitor; no belt) on the spinner and 190 during a run (at which point, I have to slow down a LOT). Just the other day, I went for a 5 mile run and my heart rate was over 180 consistently. For this reason, I had to slow down every 30seconds in second-half of the run and it kills my time. It took me 1:02 (hr:mm) for the entire run. Ofcourse, I am a weak runner and hadn't ran in couple of weeks but I thought spinning for last 3months would have given my heart some strength. 

I am surely in better shape than I was 6months and lost 10-15lbs in process (I know, not good enough).... but the stamina and aerobic capacity is severely lacking! Spring is here and summer is coming soon... I have a goal for doing a century bike ride this summer, 10mi run in fall and half-marathon by Thanksgiving. With this sort of performance, I am not going to be anywhere near my goals. Please share your wisdom with a newbie here. 

-ironbaby

PS - Came across a new term today... aerobic base capacity. Something I need to learn about more?

 



2011-03-07 2:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?

Ditch your time goals, and concentrate on slowly building to distance. Emphasis on SLOW.

Your problem is pretty straightforward - you're running too hard for your current fitness.

Spin fitness does not necessarily translate to run fitness. Running more improves run fitness. Period.

Slow down. Run at a speed where you can hold a conversation the majority of the time. The common wisdom round here is when you can get 5-6 months of 25-35 miles per week running THEN you can work on speed. But don't worry, when you start running more - even at a SLOW pace you'll get faster.

You can definitely build to all the distances you want to this year. Just don't burn yourself out trying to do it in specific time.

And you may want to incorporate a run/walk strategy while you are building up distance.

http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/walk_breaks.html



Edited by kirih 2011-03-07 2:43 AM
2011-03-07 4:45 AM
in reply to: #3385702

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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?

I feel your pain.... I too cannot keep my HR under control. One thing you didn't mention was your age. It might not make a significant difference but your Max HR at age 20 would be different to your Max HR at age 40.

Keep persisting with volume and forget the time/pace goals presently. Build a base, get some running fitness and the HR will drop to more manageable levels. And as the previous poster said, adopting a walk/run strategy will help.

Best of luck.

2011-03-07 6:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?

It's very simple, if your HR is that high you are running too fast!

I have a few friends or doing IM training now with the Maffetone method (http://philmaffetone.com/aerobic.cfm) of doing all workouts at a very low pulse. In the beginning most of them had to almost walk their run training to keep the pulse that low but with time they could run faster with the same pulse.

On the bike the HR should be even lower.

If I would have not been running for a few weeks and then go out for a hard 5 miler I think my HR would probably be sky-high too and I would really risk some injury!  if you have that long of a break even though you are biking in between, start up easy with a few 2 miles and go up from there.

Running consistently is the key here!

2011-03-07 8:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?

Dont be afraid to walk on your runs. I noticed you are trying to lose weight and when your heart rate gets that high during exercise your body starts to burn more glucose than fat. Low-intensity work is preferred for weight loss as well as for gaining fitness and avoiding injury.

Also, be patient. Running fitness is harder to gain than biking fitness. While running, your major muscle groups are fighting gravity more and you are using more muscles groups (your arms).

2011-03-07 9:51 AM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?

Sorry.. how the heck did I miss this vital information - age 30.



2011-03-07 10:23 AM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?

While spinning - I have to push a lot harder (and given recent few months of training), a lot more to push my heart rate at 180. So I don't feel that bad about it.

While running - Run/walk or run... my heart wants to jump out and play ball as long as there is running involved! Being out of breath all the time is a major reason, I avoided running. It was just no fun. Not a good reason but constant failure is never really motivating. Trying to change that now.

Jan-Feb, I had started running on the treadmill and was doing 2-3mi twice a week. Pace was an average 4.5mph. Couldn't get my peformance to improve. My heart was pounding was pretty much all throughout.

Although I like to call it 'running' but at 13min/mi, I don't think it qualifies as running... its more likely to be considered run/walk. I have my first 10K race (just aiming to finish in 1hr) in 7-weeks. What should I be doing to get it right? I am really confused on running.

2011-03-07 10:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?

You really need to stop worrying about speed and getting some decent mileage in first!

Running a 10K in an hour is really fast! Its like a 9:xx mile and honestly in 7 weeks this is not realistic if you are running 13min/miles now.

Why are you so focused on speed?

If you are trying to loose weight you need to keep your HR down. Preferably under 145 to burn fat and not glucose.

2011-03-07 11:00 AM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?
I recently went through the same thing. I would get on the treadmill for 40 minutes at a pace I thought was slow and my heart rate would be in the 160s.  My coach told me to just focus on "easy running" and not speed and my heart rate is now 138 for the same speed it was 160 about 4 weeks ago.  Thus the advice you are getting does work.  The other thing is consistency. I hate running but the only way to get better is to do it.
2011-03-07 11:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?
Joblin - 2011-03-07 11:49 AM

You really need to stop worrying about speed and getting some decent mileage in first!

Running a 10K in an hour is really fast! Its like a 9:xx mile and honestly in 7 weeks this is not realistic if you are running 13min/miles now.

Why are you so focused on speed?

Dunno... I am not really focussed on speed but everyone around me seems to have substanially higher/better benchmark on their running. It seemed like I was doing something wrong or not pushing myself enough. Foot in mouth

Should I be aiming to keep running in a specific HR zone? If keeping under 140... it would more walking than running. Frown

2011-03-07 11:32 AM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?

Like everyone said...slow down!

It's so hard not to worry about performance but sometimes it all has to about just getting out there and enjoying it.  Slow, steady, comfortable running will build endurance and burn fat (and way more fun than huffing and puffing). As I gain endurance and lose the weight I'm hauling around, and I'll be faster! It's a process, be patient.



2011-03-07 12:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?

Well... I am a newbie to this site, but I have spent many years and miles running.  I have noticed that several people keep a good pace, but with a short stride.  Try to get more distance out of each step.  If you can get more distance out of each pace, you can slow your pace to where you and your heart are comfortable and I think your time will develop.  Distance running is more about efficiency and mental condition than brute strength. 

You will eventually find yourself in a "zone" where you are constantly moving but your breathing is slow and controlled and you do not think of running as a struggle anymore. 

2011-03-07 12:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?
ironbaby - 2011-03-07 5:30 PM
Joblin - 2011-03-07 11:49 AM

You really need to stop worrying about speed and getting some decent mileage in first!

Running a 10K in an hour is really fast! Its like a 9:xx mile and honestly in 7 weeks this is not realistic if you are running 13min/miles now.

Why are you so focused on speed?

Dunno... I am not really focussed on speed but everyone around me seems to have substanially higher/better benchmark on their running. It seemed like I was doing something wrong or not pushing myself enough. Foot in mouth

Should I be aiming to keep running in a specific HR zone? If keeping under 140... it would more walking than running. Frown

Yes in the beginning you should aim for a pace where either your HR is still low or if you don't use a HR monitor, at a pace where you can still have a conversation with a person.

It might mean that you have to walk only in the beginning to get your body used to it. Or to take walking breaks like the Galloway method to bring your HR down again.

2011-03-07 12:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?
I started at 300 lbs and a high heart rate even hiking. 22 months later I completed an Olympic tri yesterday (my second). Things I learned are 1. Focus on HR zones and times working at different zones. Speed is irrelevant. 2. Add to distance gradually/incrementally. 3. Learn about BMR (basal metabolic rate) and LTR (lactate threshold rate). 4. Listen to your body. Take one or two rest days a week. Ice and stretching are your friends now. Avoid injury setbacks! 5. Keep it fun! Results come gradually but they do come! I'm down 75 pounds and I dropped 45 minutes from my first race time, and my heart rate averaged 142 for the bike/run segments. As a 54yo official old fart, I'll take it! Good luck!
2011-03-07 12:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?

Thanks for the good advice.

In that case, should I increase the distance? Or just keep it short and under a controlled HR?

Sorry about the stupid questions... but I am pretty clueless about running. I have been trying to get a grip on it but it seems still not doing it right.

2011-03-07 3:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?
A suggestion would be to run/jog alternating to keep your HR from skyrocketing but first learn the right HR zones for you. Your age will dictate it to some extent and there are more accurate ways to zero in (LTR). With practice you will be able to control for exercise within a range pushing it a bit if it goes too low and backing off if it goes too high for too long. Basic rule of thumb could be to concentrate on Long Slow Distance now while you build up base fitness. On my own journey I hiked with increasing cadence and on more intense terrain for 8 months before I ran but I'm much older and was far heavier than you. Once I started running it was 1/4 mile job 1/8 mile walk. I now do a 6 mile run 1x a week and two 3 mile runs weekly. Don't overdo the running or you will risk injury/setback. That's the beauty of triathlons. The balance of the sports spreads out the load. Think of your speed as the gas pedal and the speed limits are your HR zones.


2011-03-08 8:00 AM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?
Joblin - 2011-03-07 1:10 PM
ironbaby - 2011-03-07 5:30 PM
Joblin - 2011-03-07 11:49 AM

You really need to stop worrying about speed and getting some decent mileage in first!

Running a 10K in an hour is really fast! Its like a 9:xx mile and honestly in 7 weeks this is not realistic if you are running 13min/miles now.

Why are you so focused on speed?

Dunno... I am not really focussed on speed but everyone around me seems to have substanially higher/better benchmark on their running. It seemed like I was doing something wrong or not pushing myself enough. Foot in mouth

Should I be aiming to keep running in a specific HR zone? If keeping under 140... it would more walking than running. Frown

Yes in the beginning you should aim for a pace where either your HR is still low or if you don't use a HR monitor, at a pace where you can still have a conversation with a person.

It might mean that you have to walk only in the beginning to get your body used to it. Or to take walking breaks like the Galloway method to bring your HR down again.

Joblin

I am taking walk breaks of 30-60seconds... between the run. My only problem was that they get a lot more frequent in second half of the run. Now it does make sense since I am burning out my glucose levels through continuous anaerobic workout.

Keeping myself at 80% of MHR (or conversational pace), what kind of distance (with stable) do I need to cover? This Long Slow Distance/ Aerobic Base is new to me.... are there any training plans I can use to benchmark my workouts?

2011-03-08 10:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?
ironbaby - 2011-03-08 2:00 PM
Joblin - 2011-03-07 1:10 PM
ironbaby - 2011-03-07 5:30 PM
Joblin - 2011-03-07 11:49 AM

You really need to stop worrying about speed and getting some decent mileage in first!

Running a 10K in an hour is really fast! Its like a 9:xx mile and honestly in 7 weeks this is not realistic if you are running 13min/miles now.

Why are you so focused on speed?

Dunno... I am not really focussed on speed but everyone around me seems to have substanially higher/better benchmark on their running. It seemed like I was doing something wrong or not pushing myself enough. Foot in mouth

Should I be aiming to keep running in a specific HR zone? If keeping under 140... it would more walking than running. Frown

Yes in the beginning you should aim for a pace where either your HR is still low or if you don't use a HR monitor, at a pace where you can still have a conversation with a person.

It might mean that you have to walk only in the beginning to get your body used to it. Or to take walking breaks like the Galloway method to bring your HR down again.

Joblin

I am taking walk breaks of 30-60seconds... between the run. My only problem was that they get a lot more frequent in second half of the run. Now it does make sense since I am burning out my glucose levels through continuous anaerobic workout.

Keeping myself at 80% of MHR (or conversational pace), what kind of distance (with stable) do I need to cover? This Long Slow Distance/ Aerobic Base is new to me.... are there any training plans I can use to benchmark my workouts?

Which program are you following now for your 10K. Just use that program and cover the same distances just with a HR of around 75% and at a conversational pace. If you are already on a Half-Marathon Plan, just use that as a reference.

If you don't use a program yet check out: http://www.jeffgalloway.com

Thephilosophy of walking breaks is that you start using them right away from the start even though you might not need them all the beginning and have to force yourself to walk during the first part but it will help you eventually in the later part of a race or workout when you get tired.



Edited by Joblin 2011-03-08 10:10 AM
2011-03-08 11:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?

No I didn't really have a program. I would do some treadill and spinning during the week and weekend would be maximum punishment (aka my run/jog time). 

I'll follow the Galloway plan from this week. Honestly, I almost feel rested at 75% MHR given I push myself to max limit all the time so taking a walk break in that low speed will be a weird. But I have read a lot over last couple of days on low intensity training and given the advice here, it seems to be more of a psychological barrier than anything else. 

Galloway training plan talks about keeping time during the week and distance on weekend. How does that help? Wouldnt consistency be better? (sorry if sounds like a stupid question, I am just trying to understand training regiments in general)

2011-03-15 11:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?

I am using the Galloway running beleifs and yes it is hard to look at your pace and see a 13 min mile but my hrt rate was only a high of 153, the fastest i ran on treadmill was 4.5. it is a slow process and i am alot bigger than you.. I started at 275, 6'2.. currently i am 247 and hopefully counting.. Just keep to a program as religious as possible, i do the olympic 20 week balanced and it seems to work for me so far. i used to not be able to run a mile but i am getting better at running just stick to it an you will be fine, Good Luck !!!

 

 

 

2011-12-09 5:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?

Ironbaby, I am new to the triathlon world, we are almost identical in regards to the "running" phenomenon. I am 38yo, 6'3 219 at the moment, I don't mind the run, but I HATE the swimYell..The thing with me is that even when my heart rate hangs in the 160-165 range, I've been able to run 10 miles in 1:27:46....or something like that. I thought at first I might be dehydrated, because your heart works is forced extremely hard because the blood becomes thicker. The fact that I don't really become winded is still a mystery. But I like the fact that someone asked the question that I have been longing to ask. I want to go looooooong....everyone does. I have been investigating my nutrition as well, there are soooo many factors to perfomance. I know there is a huge gap in time since you posted this initially, but I'm new to the masses, and I wish everyone all the success!!!

 

Keep it moving.....



2012-01-06 9:18 AM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?

Maybe your max high rate is high.

I have been running for the last 4 years. My heart goes always high when I run. I got so frustrated that I finally stopped running with the heart monitor. I went to a cardiologyst and asked him to do all different tests. Everything looks great so far. My resting Hr IS 50.    He put me on a 24 h heart monitor. It registered heart  rate as high as 199 during my run. I was doing 8 mile run at pace 9.30 a mile. It was not really fast. 

It's still remains a mystery why my hr jumps so high.  Next week I'm having a blood volume test to rule out anemia.

When I run my body and musceles feel fine. I feel tired but not extremely tired.

My heart rate slows me down a lot. Friends talked me into running a 5 K a few days ago. I could have pushed harder, but when my hr jumped to 186 in mile 2 I slowed down a bit. I finished in 28 min.

 

 

 

'

2012-01-08 1:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?

Great Post!  I just started back up to get ready for 2012 and I am having to work on my aerobic base, as well.   All of this past week's workouts were completed in what I have defined my ZN2 heart rate range as 139 to 159 bpm.  I tend to workout at the top of that zone and I have had to learn to leave my ego at home knowing that I won't be the fastest invidual on the road, or at the track.  Sometimes you just may have to walk to get your heart rate down and you have to know that it is okay.  Stay focused on your long term goals and you will definately see improvement!

Good luck and welcome to the most adicting sport in the world!

Roger

www.train4adoption.org 

2012-01-08 4:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?

I would not get that concerned about your high heart rate.  As you get fitter and lose weight, it will come down some.  Also, you may just have a high heart rate.  I've been running for three and a half years, have done base training (running slow, aerobic HR and all that) and I can still max my HR out at 198 or so on a 5K and I can keep it up around 170-180 for an entire marathon without feeling like I am dying. Yes, I've had EKGs and stress testing during my physicals to make sure all is okay. Oh, I'm 42 years old.

My resting HR is low 40s and when I hike or walk it never gets over 100 until I climb hills. Everyone is different and you cannot compare yourself to the next guy.

You should start out by running with your HR low for a good 10-12 week period, but after that you can do work to add some speed and not worry if the HR is higher.  It will take several seasons of training to get your HR down some.



Edited by TriFlorida 2012-01-08 4:48 PM
2012-01-09 11:42 AM
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Subject: RE: Heart rate too high (running)?
Great comments by everyone and I have to concur that Heart rate will come down, you just have to give it time. You will notice a reaction that as weight goes down, hear rate goes down, but also power to weight ratio goes up with weight loss and speed goes up. You are in the very early stages of training and you have come along way in these 6 months. 6 months from now you will be even better so take your time and don't over do it. Things will only get better from now on, and to date you have done right things
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