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2011-03-11 8:46 AM

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Subject: "Locked rib"

My back has an annoying pain when I sit.  Chiro said that it is a locked rib.

The only training that feels ok is running.

Any thoughts from BT?



2011-03-11 2:50 PM
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Subject: RE: "Locked rib"
I'm no expert on anatomy, but the ribs don't have joints that allow for movement, so ALL of your ribs are essentially "locked."
2011-03-11 4:09 PM
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Subject: RE: "Locked rib"

MikeTheBear - 2011-03-11 3:50 PM I'm no expert on anatomy, but the ribs don't have joints that allow for movement, so ALL of your ribs are essentially "locked."

Since my ski accident in 03 I've had issues with my lower neck-shoulder area and ever so often I'll have issues with taking deep breaths/sitting.  My chiro would also say something about locked ribs (BTW I broke 4 ribs).

Well according to this site there are three "joints" where the rib attach to the spine (2) and at the Sternum.

Lot of info pops up on search of "locked rib", ever this thread already!

2011-03-11 5:23 PM
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Subject: RE: "Locked rib"
Disclaimer: I am biased against chiropractic and find that it is not supported by scientific evidence, so anyone who likes chiropractic may become offended at my comments.

Let's look at real anatomy. The Wikipedia entry mentions nothing about "rib joints."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rib_cage

The ribs do have cartilage which allows for flexibility and expansion while breathing. I've never read about cartilage becoming "locked." Certainly, scar tissue from prior injuries can cause problems. Damage to surrounding muscle and other soft tissue can create adhesions which can cause pain when they are pulled or broken apart due to a particular movement. All of this may create a sensation of being "locked." But these are problems with the soft tissues.
2011-03-11 6:55 PM
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Subject: RE: "Locked rib"

where at on your back?/   lower back??   where on the ribs,  anterior, postier.. (front or back or side)

 

like someone else mentioned, what would be locked?  it's not a typical joint

2011-03-11 7:25 PM
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Subject: RE: "Locked rib"
MikeTheBear - 2011-03-11 4:23 PM

Disclaimer: I am biased against chiropractic and find that it is not supported by scientific evidence, so anyone who likes chiropractic may become offended at my comments.

Let's look at real anatomy. The Wikipedia entry mentions nothing about "rib joints."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rib_cage

The ribs do have cartilage which allows for flexibility and expansion while breathing. I've never read about cartilage becoming "locked." Certainly, scar tissue from prior injuries can cause problems. Damage to surrounding muscle and other soft tissue can create adhesions which can cause pain when they are pulled or broken apart due to a particular movement. All of this may create a sensation of being "locked." But these are problems with the soft tissues.


I'm sorry but I find it amusing when someone tries to show a scientific source and then pulls out wikipedia. Funny stuff.


2011-03-11 8:49 PM
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Subject: RE: "Locked rib"
bradword - 2011-03-11 7:25 PM

MikeTheBear - 2011-03-11 4:23 PM

Disclaimer: I am biased against chiropractic and find that it is not supported by scientific evidence, so anyone who likes chiropractic may become offended at my comments.

Let's look at real anatomy. The Wikipedia entry mentions nothing about "rib joints."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rib_cage

The ribs do have cartilage which allows for flexibility and expansion while breathing. I've never read about cartilage becoming "locked." Certainly, scar tissue from prior injuries can cause problems. Damage to surrounding muscle and other soft tissue can create adhesions which can cause pain when they are pulled or broken apart due to a particular movement. All of this may create a sensation of being "locked." But these are problems with the soft tissues.


I'm sorry but I find it amusing when someone tries to show a scientific source and then pulls out wikipedia. Funny stuff.


How about Gray's Anatomy: http://education.yahoo.com/reference/gray/subjects/subject/76

Better?

I guess there is a type of joint that connects the ribs to the spine. But it's definitely not a regular kind of joint. So I still question the whole condition of having a locked rib joint. The only sites discussing this condition are chiropractic sites. I've yet to find a discussion on this by an orthopedic surgeon.
2011-03-11 9:52 PM
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Subject: RE: "Locked rib"

As you get older, the costal cartilage that attaches the ribs to your vertebrae and sternum ossifies - it turns to bone.  Could be that he was referring to rib with ossified cartilage.

 

NM - googled it and it sounds like one of those manufactured Chiro terms that are non-specific, like "subluxation"



Edited by mfoutz 2011-03-11 9:59 PM
2011-03-11 10:40 PM
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Subject: RE: "Locked rib"
mfoutz - 2011-03-11 9:52 PM

As you get older, the costal cartilage that attaches the ribs to your vertebrae and sternum ossifies - it turns to bone.  Could be that he was referring to rib with ossified cartilage.

 

NM - googled it and it sounds like one of those manufactured Chiro terms that are non-specific, like "subluxation"

For the record...

Subluxation = when the articulating surfaces of a given joint are no longer in full (i.e. normal, anatomical) contact but still maintain some degree of contact. It is a.k.a. as a 'partial dislocation' (technically dislocation = complete loss of contact between the articulating surfaces of a given joint) by a lot of people. It isn't a word that was created to suit the chiro lexicon; it is used in everyday medical practice.

As some above posters have said the ribs do have articulating joint surfaces which allow for movement (albeit limited). The various intercostal muscles, including but not limited to the external, internal and innermost internal intercostals, cause the ribs to move up and down plus a little bit of in and out which facilitate deeper breathing as necessary.

I'd imagine you'd see some good examples if you hit up youtube for videos of neonatal respiratory distress or intercostal recession.

Back to the OP - I'm not a doctor (not yet anyway) and I personally don't put much faith in chiropracty (but for those who do I hope it works for you. I prefer a good physio massage) but the ribs articulate with the spine in a relatively complex way with regards to the multiple small muscles that attach the ribs to the spine. Maybe some of these muscles are partially torn. Likewise, depending on where your pain is it could be muscular trauma to some of the intercostal muscles, or calcification to the costal cartilage where the ribs join on to the sternum which will limit how much they can move when you take deep breaths.

Regardless I think that if the pain persists >4 weeks, increases in severity, changes in nature or you develop other symptoms you should really hit up your GP. Costal (i.e. rib) pain can have origins within the spine and back pain can have some really nasty causes.

Just my $0.02. And as I'm Australian I think my $0.02 is now equivalent to your American $0.02!!!!

 

2011-03-12 12:51 AM
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Subject: RE: "Locked rib"

Went to the Chiropractor this AM.  Had a very painful knee for the past two weeks and a pain in my mid back.  He popped my ribs and pulled and twisted on my leg.  Back pain gone and knee is on the mend.  I've been doing that Insanity workout and it really torqued my knee too.  I did the workout tonight and there was only minor stiffness.

I've spent years in near constant pain for various back related things.  Some to the point where I could bearly breath and at other times I couldn't stand up for weeks at a time.  Doctors gave me pills and told me to use hot pads and ice.  Chiropractic stuff pretty much helped me out of it.  It wasn't the only thing but it did help a lot over the years.  Besides the things mentioned above I don't have pain of any kind most of the time now. (Well, there is this thing with my IT band)

The Chiropractor I have right now does magic.  He comes from a massage background and really gets the the things that cause the misalignment.  He works to make it so you don't have to come back to see him.  He's also a runner so has some understanding of what I'm doing when I run etc. 

I've had others that just wanted to make money.  Others still that just didn't work well on me.  One was just old school and never really solved the problem though he could make it stop hurting for a while.

The thing that has made the biggest difference for me is finding the muscles that are too tight and working the tension out of them.

Gots to go now.  Good luck.

Oh yea, why didn't he unlock the rib for you?

MArk B.

2011-03-12 6:57 AM
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Subject: RE: "Locked rib"
say what you will about Chiropractic...some people love it, some people don't. I for one LOVE it and have a wonderful guy who works on my whole family (even my kids). A few times I went in to see him with issues that were extremely painful, and was relieved after leaving the office. One specific one when I was pregnant. I sneezed while bending forward and a jolt of pain came from my middle back...it was awful and painful! Go into the chiro that day and he adjusted my ribcage/back...whoila...no more pain...and safe for the baby! He has also really helped my headaches...so I am a believer. There are bad ones out there, just like any medical professional, but I choose to go when I need in order to feel my best!


2011-03-12 12:54 PM
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Subject: RE: "Locked rib"

I'm a fan of the chiro.  Joints get out of place and tweaked sometimes.  If it's a chronic thing, my opinion is that you should be working to do some PT as well to make sure whatever imbalance you have stops the joint from getting tweaked.

To the OP...sounds silly to me.  What did he say when you asked him what that was?  A little while ago I had this thing where whenever I breathed in really deep I would get a sharp pain that felt like it was in between my ribs.  Eventually just went away and haven't had it in a long time.  Hope you're on the mend.

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