General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight. Rss Feed  
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2011-03-30 9:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
I'm 6-1 and somewhere in the neighborhood of 200 lbs.  I have a decent amount of muscle from years of weight lifting prior to triathlons.  I still lift twice a week during the tri season.  I could probably shed  some of the upper body muscle, a few pounds of fat, get somewhere in the neighborhood of 190 and improve my run (and perhaps my bike) some.  However my run is pretty good right now.  I've run 5ks in training at a 6:53 pace in the past year and a 10k at as low as a 7:30 pace.  Not the best but not bad.  I like lifting and the benefits outside of tri's that it brings, and  I'm not hugely motivated to go to great lengths to lose a significant amount of weight. If it happens through training great.  However, one of the reasons I exercise the way I do is so I can indulge at a meal or with a drink every so often.


2011-03-30 10:28 PM
in reply to: #3421639

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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
I'm a woman, I'll respond.

I still probably 10+ lbs over my optimal weight, but I'm down 35 lbs from where I was 10 years ago at age 20, so I'm ok with it.  I could lose it if I really put some effort into it, and in the meantime I'm not going to make any excuses about it.  I've been training for 3.5 years now, and my body is continuing to change for the better.  As long as I see progress, I'm happy.  If I become unhappy with my progress, I'll kick it up a notch. 

I just bought a new P2.  It's more comfortable than my old bike and I'm spending more time in aero, so I might gain a little speed.  Losing the 10 lbs would undoubtedly make a much bigger difference in my speed, but whatever - I'm enjoying my new bike and not harboring any illusions about what it's going to do for my performance.

I started doing triathlons at a time in my life when I felt very unhappy and not in control of anything.  I view triathlon not so much as having changed me, but as having awakened the person inside that was always there - the person who is disciplined, healthy, and mentally and physically strong.  This is an ongoing journey.  My weight has always been part of this picture, but certainly not all of it.
2011-03-31 12:07 AM
in reply to: #3421639

Elite
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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
"The older we get the harder it is to lose weight."

I don't know about this one. One of the reasons for this is that after years of being sedentary, folks "over 35" have lost a lot of muscle mass and so have a slower metabolism. Having been sedentary, they also can't exercise with much intensity. In high school and college, most of could join a pick-up basketball game and play for an hour without thinking. For older folks, a 20 minute "brisk walk" is exercise. Very different intensity levels. It is true that hormone levels go down as we age. Men, for instance, experience a drop in testosterone levels, and high T levels lead to lower bodyfat. Growth hormone production is also reduced. However, even low hormone levels can be improved through - you guessed it - exercise. I don't want to open up the weight training can of worms but weight training will increase natural production of growth hormone and testosterone. This is one of the reasons why I think every person over the magic age of 35 (who came up with this number, anyway?) should adopt a weight training program EVEN IF it will provide absolutely no benefit to endurance performance (and I'm NOT going to get into that debate). Having no muscle and brittle bones is no way to go through life. Just look at my signature line: squats and fish oil solve many problems.

Tom, I find it interesting that being 178 at 5'9" you consider yourself "overweight." I'm 5'8" and if I get to around 175 I consider myself fairly lean. Then again, I've always been stocky and I'm sure I always will be. I'm currently 232 - I completely admit I'm a larda$$, but I'm getting back into tri training and that always helps.
2011-03-31 12:18 AM
in reply to: #3421639

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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
A couple of summers ago I was 210 lbs (at 6'), and thought that I'd never again be the runner that I once was. I wasn't able to go more than a couple of miles without pulling a calf muscle or some other injury. Biking and calorie watching took me down to 160 in around a year, by which point I was able to run again, and soon was running my fastest times in 20 years. Friends who I hadn't seen in a while started asking me if I was sick, and I got to tell them that I feel great. Still can't stave off the injuries as much as I'd like, and keeping the weight off isn't easy. I love food. But the weight loss has been a key part of turning my life around. For me, the main elements have been counting calories, and being disciplined about avoiding the high calorie snacks that seem to pop up at various times of the day. Oh, and keeping weight records - very motivating.
2011-03-31 1:07 AM
in reply to: #3422790

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Sensei
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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.

I didn't read the entire thread...  BUT, as a testimonial, I can attest to this very fact...  I'm down almost 30 lbs since the new year, and the lightest I have EVER been at triathlon, and the difference is shocking.  Speed, recovery, impact, climbing, etc...  And that's just going from almost 250 to 220.  (I'm VERY tall).  I can only imagine how it would be to be 175 or 180 (which will NEVER happen for me).

I remind myself by picking up a 25 lb dumbell, and think to myself, 3 months ago, I was s/b/r with this on "my back"...

2011-03-31 3:18 AM
in reply to: #3421779

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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.

I have read that for every pound you lose you get 2 sec per mile faster on the run. I know that as I lose weight my pulse at any speed improves and I can therefore move faster. Unlike the rest of the posters I have quite a bit to lose (read that 45lbs) so I can shave 90 sec per mile off my run. While that is significant, as a beginner (a return participant) I can increase my time even more dramatically by improving technique and building my aerobic engine. 

I often get wrapped up in numbers and have had my LBM tested. It would seem to me that where you have the weight and where you lose it makes a big impact. My arms are disproportionately large. The gain I get from my arms versus their weight has to be negative. So ideally, I would need to cut down on the muscle I am carrying in my arms. Even my legs which are very muscular from squats (and from carrying all this extra weight for years) are not functionally efficient. 

So I think the key is not how much weight but what kind of weight, where and how functional.



2011-03-31 4:21 AM
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2011-03-31 4:21 AM
in reply to: #3421639

Master
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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
Quite honestly, I think sometimes my weight (more accurately, body type) is a limiter in the opposite way. I have a real marathoner's build, naturally thin and lean. It's probably ideal for distance running as I'm efficient and have few injury problems. But I think it holds me back as far as strength/power for the bike and swim. I know the latter depends more on technique, and I do have decent speed, but I feel my size is a disadvantage in OWS with crowded starts and rough current. I also don't have much power for the bike. I try to tell myself that the top cyclists are not large people, so maybe it's more a matter of training! It's not something that "eating more" is really going to solve--I already eat a lot--maybe strength training or those ghastly cycling power workouts. 
2011-03-31 7:49 AM
in reply to: #3421639

Elite
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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
I am probably 30-40 pounds overweight. Right now I weigh 225 at 6'2. In high school when I was swimming 20+ hours a week I was only 175-180. I know for a fact if I could make myself eat well enough to get down under 200, I would be a lot faster than I am. Having said that I do enjoy the look on people's face when my large butt beats them.
2011-03-31 8:21 AM
in reply to: #3421639

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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.

I have been a hard gainer my whole life (just over 100 lbs when I graduated high school), but at 38 I think I have finally beat it Undecided. I am 5' 10 177lbs and about 12-14% body fat. I eat healthy most of the time but I still like to enjoy good (bad) food once in a while. I suppose I could get down to 9-10% body fat with massive effort and improve my performance. Or lose muscle mass and improve my performance but that seems asinine, I am fit and muscular but you wouldn't mistake me for a body builder. I don't have any big money equipment anyway, just a nice road bike with clip on aero bars.

For me sacrificing overall health and fitness or enjoyment of life to be a minute or two faster in triathlon isn't worth it. If I was a contender for the podium I might look at it a little differently but to go from MOP to slightly higher MOP isn't a huge deal to me.

2011-03-31 8:54 AM
in reply to: #3421639

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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.

When I was in my twenties I was into lifting weights. At 195 pounds I probably had about a 10-12% body fat. I'm just under 6 feet. I had 18 inch arms and the same for my neck. I could bench 315 for 8-10 reps. I would put 90 pound on a chain and do reps of 25-30 for dips. I could squat 465 for 8-10 reps, ETC, you get the idea.

At 43 now I knew long ago that pushing that type of weight would only get me hurt as I got older. So I still hit the weights and messed around with spinning classes and some running. Then a friend and I messed around with the idea of doing a TRI and we started swimming. We decided to take a master swim class after a few months and that's when everything changed and we got serious.

I probably weighed about 205 at that time. By general society standards I certainly wasn't fat and I still had a lot of my lifting bulk. Since last July when I started masters swim I've dropped down to 185. I've been this weight since the start of the year. So 5 months saw 20 pounds go bye bye and now I've stabilized. I'd still like to drop 5-7 more to be at my ideal race weight but it will literally take a perfect diet. I eat near perfect during the week but I allow myself latitude on the weekends.

If you didn't know me before I think I look normal. For people who knew me when I was bulked up I'm sure I look small or as I wife likes to lament emaciated. I feel like I'm a leaner version of my younger self . There's this TV ad for planet fitness where this muscle head is filling out forms to work out at the gym and he's making his chest bounce and scream out bang, bang-bang like his chest is firing out bullets. Every time I change and my wife starts in with oh my god you look sick I've taken to reenacting the commercial. The kids love it and join in the fun. I keep telling her 98% of the wives out there, especially in the 40+ bracket, would love it if there husbands were thin.

As long as it makes you happy roll with it.



2011-03-31 8:55 AM
in reply to: #3421639

Regular
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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
2011-03-31 8:56 AM
in reply to: #3423122

Regular
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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.

scraver - 2011-03-31 9:55 AM

Seriously... how did I end up with a blank post?  Everything I typed is gone??

2011-03-31 9:00 AM
in reply to: #3423128

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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
scraver - 2011-03-31 9:56 AM

scraver - 2011-03-31 9:55 AM

Seriously... how did I end up with a blank post?  Everything I typed is gone??

It was too heavy?

 

2011-03-31 9:29 AM
in reply to: #3422476

Regular
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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
Tom Demerly. - 2011-03-30 8:06 PM

"Women, please don't take offense, but I think a 'healthy' more full-figured physique is sexier and more attactive than the lean/rawboned look." Mike, you had me at "hello". Agreed. Four words: Katy Perry, Erika Christensen.

I think that comments like this are were discussions like this tend to go south.  The discussion was started about how weight relates to performance... not about how weight relates to attractiveness.  I take no offense - they are both beautiful women... (and at this point in my life, I am secure with my own body imagine) but I don't think I would describe them as "full-figured" either.

Four words: Ryan Reynolds, Taye Diggs

Hee hee hee

I was pushing 250 lbs at my heaviest weight and am now down to about 215.  (I am 5'9") and I notice a HUGE difference in the 35 I have lost so far (of course, a lot of that has to do with how totally out of shape I was at 250).  But I know that when I lose another 35 lbs, I will see huge improvements in not only my time - but my stamina.  I have been running for a while, but the triathlon training is new to me.  The biggest thing I am running into right now is having the stamina to get in all my workouts through out the week. 

2011-03-31 9:58 AM
in reply to: #3422835

Champion
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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
Fred Doucette - 2011-03-31 4:21 AM
trigal38

I do not take offense to what any man on this forum regards as an attractive physique but I also don't think anyone asked for an opinion of what is the sexiest. Maybe this is not the best place for that discussion. You wonder why not many woman comment on this thread? Because of overwhelming body image stereotypes that are reflected in our every day culture. From every magazine cover, to billboard, and even to BT. Personally I am not racing triathlons to gain a lean/rawboned look. The thought has never crossed my mind and my physique has not changed much since I started racing.

I guess I did take offense a little Wink.

Good point. Body image and weight issues are heavily distorted in our society, especially agaisnt women. As I said a few pages ago, I have mixed feelings about this actual discussion as I know personally of many women who have struggled through this. I think that there are people who have read some of the comments here and have taken offense but just aren't going to post.

I don't usually care that much if I offend in an internet discussion about racing speed, tires, power etc, but on this topic I really do care and worry.

Yes being lighter for (many) will be healthier and make you faster to a point. However, the issue is much more complex than just that isn't it?

 

 I'm glad you mentioned this.   I think people perception of how big they actually are is off.

I was at a photoshop seminar last week and one of the features is basically a resizing tool.  it seems that when people are given a photo of themselfs blown out of proportion and asked to put it back to what they think it should be (without seeing the % slider) nearly everyone thinks they are at 85-90%.  so 10 -15% thinner than they really are.

I guess it's similair to when someone sees their photo and then decides that they are overweight and it's time to cut back.



2011-03-31 10:05 AM
in reply to: #3421639

New user
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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.

What do you guys think of weight, but muscle weight?

Right now I'm 190 5'11 and I just ran a 3:39 marathon. I've been working hard for the past 6 months on my S/B/R and feel like I'm in great shape, the thing is I'm still "heavy". Alot of this is upper body muscle mass, I can do 3x15 of 190 bench press, 70 pushups 18 pullupts etc. If I had to guess I am probably somewhere in the 8-13% body fat range, which is by no means "skinny". I'd really like to see my traithlon times improve but feel like weighing this much is holding me back--which is frustrating because I know I'm in good shape and I know a lot of people would love to have my muscle mass. I'd love to get down to 175 and think I'd be significantly faster, I just don't know how to get there without comprimising training/health.

2011-03-31 10:14 AM
in reply to: #3422025

Master
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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
Fred Doucette - 2011-03-30 12:38 PM
Davisjl - 2011-03-30 3:35 PM
Fred Doucette - 2011-03-30 3:26 PM
Davisjl - BMI is a horrable indicator of "Healthy" and should be banished from ever being used again...

I realise you are 'joking' a bit, but BMI is still very useful for population study. It is not useful for individuals and notoriously inaccurate for folks with lots of muscle.

So in the context of a 'population' it is a useful metric.

maybe for some sort of Gereral statistcal measure.... but it doesn't reflect Healthy weight... never has and never will.  Every body builder out there would be considered Obese by BMI and they are now where near that....  I guess the problem is that people have taking it and used it in ways it shouldn't have been used or was never intended to be used...

It is a population metric. It is useful in that context. The terms that you are using like "healthy weight" are not appropriate for BMI and were never intended for it.

BMI is useful for it's purpose. ie; looking at the BMI of middle school children in a given state. People have abused it for personal BMIs etc as you say, but that was not the intended purpose, so again, it's very useful in it's given context.

BTW are you aware of the dose of radiation from a Dexa Scan?

  Fred - I thought a Dexa Scan was used for measuring bone density - no?
2011-03-31 10:22 AM
in reply to: #3421639

Elite
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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
I am a small woman (5') however I'm no waif...I hover around 130 lbs--I have booty and thighs and they are strong.  However, everytime I finish a marathon or half marathon in a decent pace I ALWAYS think--how much faster could I have run if I would have dropped to 120?  I am currently training for my first HIM on June 11 and again I'm thinking I would like to toe the line at 120...I'm just not sure if the effort to get there is worth it when I'm training so well and strong at my current 130. Any thoughts?
2011-03-31 10:48 AM
in reply to: #3423328

Champion
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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
ingleshteechur - 2011-03-31 9:22 AM

I am a small woman (5') however I'm no waif...I hover around 130 lbs--I have booty and thighs and they are strong.  However, everytime I finish a marathon or half marathon in a decent pace I ALWAYS think--how much faster could I have run if I would have dropped to 120?  I am currently training for my first HIM on June 11 and again I'm thinking I would like to toe the line at 120...I'm just not sure if the effort to get there is worth it when I'm training so well and strong at my current 130. Any thoughts?


I think it is foolish to attempt to lose muscle so that you can go faster unless, I guess, going faster really means that much to you.

Different people have different bodies and react differently to similar training. I think that the more relevant question is your body fat percentage and how, in attempting to lose body fat you may sacrifice muscle.

I think, for the most part, in training to do triathlons your body will adapt to do them to the best ability that you have. That is 95% of the battle. Now after you are done that 95% you may say, well gee, I have a little too much muscle in my legs and not enough flexibility or similarly with your upper body.

Now I don't know, but I would guess, that the work required to win that remaining 5% of the battle (whatever that may be in terms of underdeveloped or overdeveloped muscles) would take a disproportionate amount of work.

I read about runners doing a large amount of flexibility and ab/lower back/hip work that takes up a large amount of time. Is it worth it for elites, yes. Is it worth it for the guy running 2.5 hours a week, I will say no, he would get more out of running another hour a week as opposed to doing an hour of crunches.

So you ask, "is it worth it". Not sure that is an answer.

But, you never asked for an answer, lol....so those are my thoughts.
2011-03-31 12:45 PM
in reply to: #3421639

Lethbridge, Alberta
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
I think comparing weight loss to an equipment purchase is kind of a red herring here. You can do both, simultaneously even. If you have the resources, the equipment will be much easier and quicker to acquire but that has nothing to do with losing some weight, or not.

When I was young, I was one of those guys who ate prodigious amounts and didn't gain weight. I stayed between 185 and 195 pretty much from after high school to my early 30's. At 6'2" that was fairly thin, wearing 32" waist jeans. I quit smoking then and the weight range shifted up 10 lbs. Then I went back to school for 4 years, got a degree and an office job, and started slowly gaining. Early 40's, at 240ish, I decided to do something about it and started learning to run and eventually triathlon. Two years ago I was down to 192 and just got back under 200 again this past week. It's not in the same places anymore though; the jeans are a size bigger these days.


2011-03-31 3:31 PM
in reply to: #3421639

Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
I tell you what, all the blathering in the world is interesting to read but it really is a personal thing.

I'm 5' 10" tall. I lost close to 80 pounds, was doing tris and had just gone below 200 for the first time in about 10 years. My blood pressure was 97/40. I was basically on the Karen Carpenter diet. It didn't work. Okay, it worked to make me lose weight but it damn near killed me.

I put 20 pounds back on and hover between 215 and 225 now. I'm pudgy/chubby, whatever. Yeah I have a tummy. If I drank at all I would call it a bit of a beer belly. My blood pressure is now about 120 over about 65 with a RHR of 40. Doc has gone from "You really should pay more attention to your cholesterol" to "You do know it can be too LOW, right?" Triglycerides went from 235 to 70 and they've stayed around 100 for a couple years now. I can run (slowly) for as long as I have nutrition and I actually enjoy the hell out of century rides and tend to average about 20 MPH on longer bike rides. I wear 36 jeans and that gives me room to stick my fist into my waist band so it's not exactly the largest guy in the room size.

I'm as thin as I give a damn about getting and I look like the lard butt when lined up during a race, especially on the HIM and IM line ups. Next to Chrissie I look like the Michelin Man.

Some of ya'll can piffle all you want and if it's your thing to want to look like Twiggie the super model, have at it and I wish you well in your achievement of the goal. Remember, also, it's not everyone's dream to live up to your expectations. Some of us just want to be healthy and be able to not have to work all the time for some hair shirt wearing reason.
2011-03-31 3:32 PM
in reply to: #3423377

Elite
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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.

BigDH - 2011-03-31 10:48 AM
ingleshteechur - 2011-03-31 9:22 AM I am a small woman (5') however I'm no waif...I hover around 130 lbs--I have booty and thighs and they are strong.  However, everytime I finish a marathon or half marathon in a decent pace I ALWAYS think--how much faster could I have run if I would have dropped to 120?  I am currently training for my first HIM on June 11 and again I'm thinking I would like to toe the line at 120...I'm just not sure if the effort to get there is worth it when I'm training so well and strong at my current 130. Any thoughts?

I think, for the most part, in training to do triathlons your body will adapt to do them to the best ability that you have. That is 95% of the battle. Now after you are done that 95% you may say, well gee, I have a little too much muscle in my legs and not enough flexibility or similarly with your upper body. Now I don't know, but I would guess, that the work required to win that remaining 5% of the battle (whatever that may be in terms of underdeveloped or overdeveloped muscles) would take a disproportionate amount of work.

That makes a lot of sense.  I am at the fittest I've ever been--I think trying to drop weight would be a battle that may not be worth the effort.  So I'd go from MOP to maybe ahead of a few other MOP! Smile  Not that important to me!

2011-03-31 3:32 PM
in reply to: #3421653

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Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
Experior - 2011-03-30 1:04 PM

Yep we should be.  (And I would add that there is in fact a good deal of discussion around here about it -- even a separate forum about it a few 'slots' below this one.)

I'm 5'7", and I weigh 140 on a bad day soaking wet right now.  I'm thinner than pretty much everybody else around me.  I still need to lose about 10 pounds to be at what I think will be an ideal race weight for me.  It's hard, including for social reasons.  I'm already told repeatedly that I look 'too thin'.



We have talked about this in another thread. I too am 5' 7", but I weigh anywhere from 148 to 153 pounds. I am pretty darn lean with a moderate amount of muscle mass. You can see my abs, veins in my arms, chest and legs and I would guess my body fat is in the single digits. I would be miserable human being at 140 pounds while you do great there. Different people sometimes have different ideal weights despite the same heights.

I am not concentrating on getting thinner, but I am sure working on getting faster. Maybe I need to re-evaluate my method of getting there.


As an aside; has anyone ever paid attention to how much daily conversation is related to weight and food. I am the father of a young daughter and one of my friends, who also has daughters, pointed this out to me. People spend an inordinate amount of time talking about weight (not so much talking about exercise). It is no wonder that our daughters (and some sons) are growing up obsessed with weight and body image. Try paying attention to this sometime and see what you think. Now I will step off my soapbox.
2011-03-31 3:46 PM
in reply to: #3424052

Bronze member
Subject: RE: Our Biggest Single Limiter: Our Weight.
wannabefaster - 2011-03-31 3:32 PM
Experior - 2011-03-30 1:04 PM

Yep we should be.  (And I would add that there is in fact a good deal of discussion around here about it -- even a separate forum about it a few 'slots' below this one.)

I'm 5'7", and I weigh 140 on a bad day soaking wet right now.  I'm thinner than pretty much everybody else around me.  I still need to lose about 10 pounds to be at what I think will be an ideal race weight for me.  It's hard, including for social reasons.  I'm already told repeatedly that I look 'too thin'.

We have talked about this in another thread. I too am 5' 7", but I weigh anywhere from 148 to 153 pounds. I am pretty darn lean with a moderate amount of muscle mass. You can see my abs, veins in my arms, chest and legs and I would guess my body fat is in the single digits. I would be miserable human being at 140 pounds while you do great there. Different people sometimes have different ideal weights despite the same heights. I am not concentrating on getting thinner, but I am sure working on getting faster. Maybe I need to re-evaluate my method of getting there. As an aside; has anyone ever paid attention to how much daily conversation is related to weight and food. I am the father of a young daughter and one of my friends, who also has daughters, pointed this out to me. People spend an inordinate amount of time talking about weight (not so much talking about exercise). It is no wonder that our daughters (and some sons) are growing up obsessed with weight and body image. Try paying attention to this sometime and see what you think. Now I will step off my soapbox.

I know exactly what you are talking about. I have a daughter who is 3. If I can raise her to have a positive body image, enjoy food, and be healthy that will be a major accomplishment. Really. I have nieces in grade school who have said they need to be on a diet. It made my skin crawl. Their mother (my sister in law) is always poking fun at her own figure in a negative way and then tells her daughters they are built just like her. She is joking and making fun but the negative message is there. My sister in law is in no way, shape or form the slightest bit overweight either. It is an obsession. Honestly I am trying to set the stage now but it seems to be such an overwhelming battle in our culture.

Funny that I worry about that for my daughter but not my son (age 5). He runs around patting his "big" belly after every meal LOL.

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