General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training. Rss Feed  
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2011-05-02 8:02 AM

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Subject: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.

So I come from a stale traditional back ground... chest/shoulders one day, back/legs next twice a week. Low rep, high weight, rest two days...ect. Finally accepted I'm not ever going to be muscle bound. Started training for a Tris this year. Doing a HIM this August.

Been reading Tri Bible and how it is important for masters (I'm 44) To keep weight training. Read plenty how important it is... yet I'm lost how to put it into a Tri training schedule.

My legs are always sore. So far I have been doing upper body work outs after my twice a week swimming workouts. That seems to be working for me. Probably should be doing 3 times a week. I have lightened up the weight and do more reps...10-15. Large group stuff.

Other than that I don't know how to work everything and still get my tri stuff done. Or more importantly how and when it is best to do what in conjunction with my swim/bike/run workouts. And of course after all that find enough recovery time to keep moving forward.

Any direction you can point me would be most appriciated.



2011-05-02 10:29 AM
in reply to: #3477018

Elite
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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.
If your upper body workouts are working for you then keep those. Try to add a lower body day as your third workout. Keep it simple - a few sets of squats is all you need. If you find that squats impact your recovery, then here's a minimalist plan I did one tri season that worked really well and didn't impact my recovery. I used kettlebell swings but you can substitute a dumbbell snatch. If you don't know how to do a dumbbell snatch there are several videos out there than can help. It's not hard to learn on your own and it's a great exercise. The plan was as follows:

Upper body press - I used a one arm press with a kettlebell, but a bench press or dips will work.
Upper back movement - I used assisted pull ups, but a pulldown or row variation will work.
Dumbbell snatch - As mentioned, I used a kettlebell swing or snatch, but no need to buy a kettlebell (unless you want to) as a dumbbell will work just fine.

Three very effective movements and you're done.
2011-05-02 3:02 PM
in reply to: #3477018

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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.

Thanks a lot. Seems pretty reasonable and I think I have done a good job at keeping things simple. I tend to over complicate most everything.

I hate to ask such a basic question.... even though weights and running work the legs say... they are not really working the same fibers right? I do my run and bike work outs and get recovery... but adding in weight isn't really counted the same right? Cause then I would just have more recovery time.

If that is the case then ya I can add in some weights after some workouts and stay strong. Right now just following your suggestion of adding one more day of legs seems pretty reasonable.

 

2011-05-02 3:03 PM
in reply to: #3477018

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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.

repeat.... ???



Edited by powerman 2011-05-02 3:05 PM
2011-05-02 4:34 PM
in reply to: #3477018

Elite
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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.
That's generally correct - heavy weights work the fast-twitch fibers while endurance works the slow-twitch. BUT...

The fibers turn on sequentially. In order to get to the fast-twitch fibers the nervous system has to activate the slow-twitch first. They can't be turned on separately. It's like an elevator - an elevator has to go past the 1st floor to get to the second.

Also, the body actually has three main types of fibers: fast-twitch, "intermediate," and slow-twitch. The intermediate fibers are kind of cool because they can assist the fast-twitch or slow-twitch.

So what does all this geeky physiology nonsense mean to you? It means that there is going to be some overlap in the fibers that are trained. Endurance training will force you to cut back on the intensity when you squat, and squatting will make your legs feel a bit more tired on your runs and bike rides. That's why I suggest squatting only once a week for a few sets. Plan your squatting workouts around days where your bike rides and/or runs will be relatively short. You and your legs will be happier.
2011-05-02 9:42 PM
in reply to: #3477018

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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.

Got it. Thanks. I have sort of been training at a steady pace. S/B/R twice a week.  I want to do a bit more. I think I will incorporate a little weights like you say, but take more advantage of easy recovery days and long days. Work in some weights on easy days and see how that goes.

 

I did do some stair work to sort of get some power in. Then Saturday I did the Manitou incline up to Barr camp. Still sore from that one. Easy day at the gym today just to get moving.



Edited by powerman 2011-05-02 9:43 PM


2011-05-03 5:31 AM
in reply to: #3477018

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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.

I'd like to add that while there is going to be some redundancy it is important to realize what motion running is and what muscles it really works.  Same with biking.  IMO if your going to add strength training and your short on time I'd look at adding functional strength training as well as really focusing on getting the muscles that running and biking don't get.  This will prevent muscle imbalance and potentially ward off injury.  Keep in mind some folks never really seem to develop that problem.  Squats are good but I'd also add a few exercises that focus on the hips specifically as that being weak is a common cause if IBTS.  Personally I'd also add in something for your shoulders.  And don't forget that core.  And by core I don't mean sit-ups.  

No individual strength training session needs to be very long.  I do fully body in 30 minutes.  I superset everything, it keeps the time down as your not sitting "resting".

2011-05-03 8:06 AM
in reply to: #3477018

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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.

^^^Thanks. so then what do you suggest for hips.

When I started swimming, I got a bit of shoulder pain, but it went away soon. Typically I have been doing presses or dips, shoulder press, then some rotator stuff, pull overs, and bent over flyes. I tried to do things to stregnthen my shoulders in general. I mostly do dumbells and really need work to balance out my left and right side.

 

2011-05-03 8:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.
Hips and glutes wise do you remember all those movements that were not for men when you lifted?  Inner and outer thigh movements on the low pulley, the glute machine, etc.  Do them.  Also single leg db deads are awesome.  Yes it will feel "wrong" coming from a lifting background but it works.
2011-05-03 8:43 AM
in reply to: #3479347

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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.

uhcoog - 2011-05-03 6:30 AM Hips and glutes wise do you remember all those movements that were not for men when you lifted?  Inner and outer thigh movements on the low pulley, the glute machine, etc.  Do them.  Also single leg db deads are awesome.  Yes it will feel "wrong" coming from a lifting background but it works.

Personally I'd skip the "machine".  It's just not that great for your body.  Sure it will work those muscles but at the risk of injury.  But everything else is dead on.  Your looking for anything that will get your abductors and adductor's.  Anything with a lateral movement to it.  So you could do side lunges for example.  Google abductor exercises and you'll get some really good ideas.  Anything with an exercise band will be really good. 

2011-05-03 8:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.

uhcoog - 2011-05-03 7:30 AM Hips and glutes wise do you remember all those movements that were not for men when you lifted?  Inner and outer thigh movements on the low pulley, the glute machine, etc.  Do them.  Also single leg db deads are awesome.  Yes it will feel "wrong" coming from a lifting background but it works.

I had 3 free trainer sessions and told the guy I wanted to do some higher intensity stuff.. weight loss stuff... anyway he had me do some single leg DB deads with a 20 lb weight.... I felt ridiculous..... could not walk for 2 days!!! Much much better than going heavy. Thanks for the suggestions.



2011-05-03 8:56 AM
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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.
I'm getting tired of having to retype my posts twice.

Edited by powerman 2011-05-03 9:00 AM
2011-05-03 10:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.
bzgl40 - 2011-05-03 8:43 AM

uhcoog - 2011-05-03 6:30 AM Hips and glutes wise do you remember all those movements that were not for men when you lifted?  Inner and outer thigh movements on the low pulley, the glute machine, etc.  Do them.  Also single leg db deads are awesome.  Yes it will feel "wrong" coming from a lifting background but it works.

Personally I'd skip the "machine".  It's just not that great for your body.  Sure it will work those muscles but at the risk of injury.  But everything else is dead on.  Your looking for anything that will get your abductors and adductor's.  Anything with a lateral movement to it.  So you could do side lunges for example.  Google abductor exercises and you'll get some really good ideas.  Anything with an exercise band will be really good. 

In comparison to a lot of exercises using the pulleys really isn't that dangerous if you use correct form.

2011-05-03 12:47 PM
in reply to: #3479640

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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.
uhcoog - 2011-05-03 8:28 AM
bzgl40 - 2011-05-03 8:43 AM

uhcoog - 2011-05-03 6:30 AM Hips and glutes wise do you remember all those movements that were not for men when you lifted?  Inner and outer thigh movements on the low pulley, the glute machine, etc.  Do them.  Also single leg db deads are awesome.  Yes it will feel "wrong" coming from a lifting background but it works.

Personally I'd skip the "machine".  It's just not that great for your body.  Sure it will work those muscles but at the risk of injury.  But everything else is dead on.  Your looking for anything that will get your abductors and adductor's.  Anything with a lateral movement to it.  So you could do side lunges for example.  Google abductor exercises and you'll get some really good ideas.  Anything with an exercise band will be really good. 

In comparison to a lot of exercises using the pulleys really isn't that dangerous if you use correct form.

Agree, I wasn't poo pooing the pulley's.  I'm all for them.  I was speaking of the adductor and abductor machines that you see in the gyms.

2011-05-04 10:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.
bzgl40 - 2011-05-03 1:47 PM

Agree, I wasn't poo pooing the pulley's.  I'm all for them.  I was speaking of the adductor and abductor machines that you see in the gyms.



Agree.  Probably the most worthless machines in the gym.

Mark
2011-05-04 10:12 PM
in reply to: #3477018

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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.

Swim day. Started doing the 1/2 plan and today was EBEH 10x100. Felt great. Asking questions here and doing some reading... I have decided to do my best to keep up with strength training.... but I am going to concentrate on core and shoulders. 1) because I can't stand core work and I have had a terrible posture my whole life. (not to mention I can see my abs now for the first time in 20 years.) 2) because I have very rounded forward shoulders.

I recently got a desk job and it has made the situation even more apparent to me. And last time I went to the doctor she told me, UNSOLICITED and off topic, that I have very forward shoulders. So reading around those are going to be some motivations for me for some things to fix. Had a great work out tonight and a awesome diner! Life's good right now.



2011-05-05 5:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.
powerman - 2011-05-04 11:12 PM

Swim day. Started doing the 1/2 plan and today was EBEH 10x100. Felt great. Asking questions here and doing some reading... I have decided to do my best to keep up with strength training.... but I am going to concentrate on core and shoulders. 1) because I can't stand core work and I have had a terrible posture my whole life. (not to mention I can see my abs now for the first time in 20 years.) 2) because I have very rounded forward shoulders.

I recently got a desk job and it has made the situation even more apparent to me. And last time I went to the doctor she told me, UNSOLICITED and off topic, that I have very forward shoulders. So reading around those are going to be some motivations for me for some things to fix. Had a great work out tonight and a awesome diner! Life's good right now.

Without knowing your workout history, shoulders that are rounded forward are often the result of too much time working the "mirror" muscles with exercises like bench presses without enough corresponding work on the opposing muscles, or a lot of time sitting hunched over, like office workers tend to do.  I would recommend upper back work, specifically: rows, lat pulldowns, and reverse flys.  Working the core isn't going to fix either of these things, and shoulders won't either (except working the rear deltoids, which will help a little).

2011-05-05 7:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.

Well of course I'm not doing this exclusively, those are just problem areas I'm comited to fix.

I have sat hunched over all my life. I only recently got the desk jokey title officially at work, but all my habits away from work are terrible too. My computer desk at home pretty much forces me to do everything wrong. Probably need to look at that.

I don't spend any time in front of a mirror, just regular ole press routines, but back has always been a favorite. My point with shoulders is that I want to spend more time on joint health and proper excersizes instead of just a few presses. I have started doing reverse flyes at the begining of the year and some other rotator stuff when I first started swimming and had some pain. My mom has had sergury on both hers and I don't want to go down the same road.

Core work won't fix my slouching, but core work is good for a whole host of reasons. I pretty much hate core work and it probaly is the most neglected area I have. So again I just want to commit to changing that. As far as slouching and bad habits well that's a 24/7 problem I will have to work on.

 

2011-05-05 8:21 AM
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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.
Best exercises you can do to help your shoulder issue IMO are bent over lateral raises, face pulls, shrugs and to a lesser extent power cleans.  Training for tris really isn't going to help either.  I find many triathletes have under developed rear delts and have issues with muscle imbalances there.  I'd also suggest not forgetting your lower back in any/all core work you do.
2011-05-05 8:32 AM
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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.
YellYellYell

Edited by powerman 2011-05-05 8:33 AM
2011-05-05 8:40 AM
in reply to: #3477018

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Subject: RE: Pretty lost how to incorporate weight training.

RRRR!!!

Thanks for your help. Done posting from work.

 



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