My first unplanned group ride and lessons learned ...

Sounds like you had a good time. However, actually I'm kind of shocked you had no wind with two bike lengths. At that space you should more wind than you expect. I would have guessed all the turbulent air coming from the other rides would have pushed you. Usually the rule of thumb is to be close as possible. However, I will only go in a pace line if I am 100% confident in the person's ability in front of me. There are to many things that can go wrong and compound quickly. Being a triathlon bike, if you're in the pursuit bars are fine. I wouldn't be in the bars unless I'm pulling. Just way to dangerous. Anyway glad you had fun! 

Scott

Thanks Scott!  I was suprised as well, but since I was on the bars that is why I dropped back more.  There were about 10 bikes all riding staggered side-by-side.   I was suprised by the lack of wind that far back, but when they took a right and I continued straight, the different was readily apparent.

I wouldn't dare riding somebody's wheel without knowing them first and being on a road bike.  Crap.  That means I need to buy a road bike

Wow, are you angry.  My guess is that you have been speared in the past?  I wasn't sucking wheel which is why I drifted back and I understand the concept of not pack riding with a tri bike.  I'm VERY confident in bike handling and used to race single track on the mtn bike, but I do understand that the aero bars are not as safe due to the brakes being out further.  I practice continually being able to jump to brake quickly and, when in a situation with traffic etc, always jump to the upright position.  Just found a couple of straight stretches with no cross roads, turns, etc... and jumped down on them.

This wasn't meant to trigger a flame fest, so I apolgize if my posting pissed you off in any way, since you seem genuinely upset at this.  I'll be more cautious about my postings going forward so that those who are better and more experienced than I don't get offended.

I once defeated Chuck Norris with his own roundouse kick, but that is neither here nor there.

I just think many people on this forum forget the venue.  I joined this forum because I am both a "beginner' and a "triathlete".  I found a love for the sport and enjoy the banter, posting, advice, and cameraderie from this site.  With some of the responses to posts, it appears that many have forgotten this.

I deliberately did not go into specific areas of my OP since it wasn't relevant.  I did not go into detail as to how I dropped back past 5 bike lengths when aero, or that it was mostly the guy in the middle flinging constant bilateral snot rockets, or that the funniest part was how the 4 riders behind him rode in a zigzag to dodge them and didn't break stride.

It is a simple post. the responses which Shane and I disagree on with respect to what constitutes "advice" versus a "you don't know what you are doing" attitude.  Maybe if you had the whole story, but then again, there is a quick snap to judgment.  It would be nice to get back to a point where once can post without lecture.  Heck, if I wanted that I'd post on ST.

I think we've derailed this enough.

Meh. I'm totally unimpressed by all the hype. 

Yes, stay off the aerobars in a group ride, but there's no need to be a Nazi about it. If you don't want the guy with aerobars near you, just politely let them know it, and they'll be fine. 

I've ridden with MANY (over 10) different roadie + triathlon groups in Nor and Socal, and I can't tell you how many aerobar-included pacelinelike rides I've done, where folks even in the midst of the pack were often on aerobars. Granted, these were not beginner riders, but they weren't exactly experts either. And the reports of aerobars causing injury /accidents are GREATLY exaggerated - all the roadies holler about it, but pretty much anybody using them knows instinctively when it's tight and fast that it's dicey to be that far off the brakes. I've never had or even seen of a problem with them in the many group rides I've been with, and those that need a reminder learn pretty quickly.

I find true beginner group rides where there are a good number of truly rookie, inexperienced riders, the trickiest rides. FAR, far more hazardous than aerobars in a group ride, even a fast one.

So yes, stay off the bars in the group, but more importantly, be aware and ready to react. 

Also, with regards to HILLS and group riding, especially with roadies in a paceline, you should definitely expect the pace to dramatically quicken on the climbs. Even with Cat1-pro hammerfest group training rides (which I have no business with, but I still try to keep up), they'll coast easy on the flats, talking the whole way, but then destroy you on the climbs, as it's the climbs where the draft effect is lost, and you can really prove your strength. Not too many group rides are done 'crit' style where you're trying to drop folks on turns and straightaways, often for safety reasons. 

I think every group ride I've done with competitive roadies (and most noncompetitive ones) involve riding at aero pace on the flats, then near-redlining it on the inclines. As a triathlete, you'll get really thrown by these - it has less to do with your inability to climb hills than the reality that they're going MUCH harder on the hills than before. Do NOT use the group speed on flats to gauge the strength of the group - only the hills count.

Very STish thread.  Lame.

. . . and that you were wearing socks.

Congrats on a great ride. Drafting makes a huge difference. FWIW  using my power meter I have noticed when I'm out front I push about 350w which is a level I can't hold very long. When I drop back into the draft I push anywhere from 230-280 w which is a lot more sustainable.

I would echo the comments about aerobars. I would not go into the aerobars if you are in eyesight of a group of roadies unless you are going the other direction.

i enjoy a group ride once in a while but for traithlon and racing never found them that useful i always feel:

power meter + solo riding > group rides

my 2 cents.  maybe i need to find faster groups with less riders...10 or less. 

Ok, so aside from the NO AEROBARS (I get it... really ... I get it...), no sleeveless jersey, need for socks... did I violate any rules wearing my Hello Kitty hotpants?

Depends - what color where they? Most likely it was a rule #14 violation with some definite #5 thrown in for good measure.

#14 is your concern.  It sounds like your only possible problem with #5 is that you weren't off the front.