KC Marathoner tasered for 'minimalist' runnnig (Page 2)

mr2tony - 2011-05-26 7:47 AM Your post brings up a question -- Are police too quickly reaching for the taser? What offense is taserable and what is not. I mean, really, it's not like he was launching molotov cocktails at the police, he was simply running naked. And by your rationale the police can taze anybody who disobeys a lawful order because they don't want to get physical? What if it's `Pick up that cigarette butt you just threw on the ground.' `No.' `TAZE!' or `Hey under-21 guy, dump out that beer.' `No.' `TAZE!' I think the taser was meant for situations like `Drop the knife.' `No.' `TAZE!'

Brock Samson - 2011-05-26 8:12 AM

I don't know if your assumption about what the taser was meant for is correct.  It would be interesting to hear a LEO perspective.

I agree with you that there is certainly some line, what that line is I don't know.  I don't think the line is as far to one side as you paint it.  That is, use only as an alternative to deadly force and then only when the officer is being physically threatened in the respect of an actual assault or having a knife or weapon pointed at them.

Again, when you have someone resisting arrest, that is refusing to comply with being arrested, the next step is for the officers to either say "alright you're right we're going to let you go since you don't want to be arrested" or they have to effectuate the arrest.

Effectuating an arrest often, in this type of scenario, means putting hands on the person.  When you go hands on all sorts of things go down and they go down fast.  And the danger to the officer increases exponentially because now he is in physical contact with the person resisting.

Do they have to first go hands on, and then if a struggle then inccurrs that then they can use the taser?

By the way, the easy examples (like the ones you used) are easy for a reason.  And the reality of work on the road is far more nebulas than the 20 year old who refuses to put down his beer.

How about this example:  Arrive at a house party for a noise complaint.  There are more party goers than officers.  The officers comand the people to disperse.  People in the crowd start yelling obsenities at the police.  They walk toward the person they commanded and they go to cuff him and he tenses up and pulls his hands away.  The crowd starts coming closer and screaming.  What now?

or how about this one.  DUI stop in a rural area.  Two people in the car.  The officer takes the driver and passenger out of the car.  He walks the driver to the back of the car to start the DUI investigation.  The passenger suddenly runs into the woods.  The driver leans up against the back of the car with his arms crossed on his chest.  The officer orders him to the ground, but the driver just stands there with his arms crossed.  Now what?

Or this one.  Traffic stop in a rural area.  three people in the car.  As soon as the car stops the passenger door flies open and the front seat and back seat passengers go running into the woods.  The driver puts his hands up on the roof of the interior of the car.  He is ordered out of the car,  But he won't comply.  He is ordered several times out of the car, but won't comply.  What now?

(By the way, on this particular incident involving the race...ever tried to tackle a nekked sweaty guy?  The odd thing is most LEO's know what it's like, especially if the started as CO's.  It's like trying to grab a greased pig)

mr2tony - 2011-05-26 9:36 AM Too long to answerr so I'll just say `Call for backup in those cases.' Anyway, I would like to point out that I'm of the notion that the guy deserved to get tasered. I may be wrong, but this seems like a good case when it's best just to zap him and carry him away rather than trying to chase him down and turn it into a game of hide-n-seek amongst the other runners who were trying to help him get away.

1stTimeTri - 2011-05-26 9:37 AM

In all cases presented, does everyone speak and understand English?

gearboy - 2011-05-25 12:23 AM It's not misleading. You just have to go back a step or two. Yes,the most proximal reason he was tased was not stopping. But why did the cop tell him to stop in the first place? (Hint - probably not for banditing the race.)To say it had nothing to do with his running naked is to be as literal as the adolescents I see on my psych unit who claim their parents are unreasonably mad at them, when earlier in the situation at home they had cursed out the parent or became destructive at home.

jmk-brooklyn - 2011-05-25 12:31 PM Yeah, I agree too. They’re supposed to be an alternative to deadly force, not a default response to any failure to obey. Was the guy a threat to the officers or others? I’m inclined to give the cops the benefit of the doubt, but If he wasn’t a threat I can’t see how the Taser’s use is justified here. I’d be curious to hear from some law enforcement personnel what the guidelines are for using a Taser or similar device.

Brock Samson - 2011-05-26 9:57 AM



Just out of curiosity, how long do you think back up takes in a rural area?  What do you do while back up is on the way?  Do you sit in the car?  What happens if after you call for back up the driver at the back of his car starts walking toward the drivers compartment of his car.  He's going back into the car?