Ironman Wisconsin vs. World Championships 70.3 (Page 2)

Thanks to all for your advice and input.  The debate between the 2 events on this blog is the same one going through my head the last couple of days.

Here is where I came out.  I decided to participate in the World Championships 70.3 in Vegas.  I decided that I would regret not going to Vegas more than skipping Wisconsin.  I know that Vegas does not have the prestige and history of Kona (not even close), but it will still be a special race, with triathletes from all over the world.  I have been lucky enough to experience the Boston marathon a few times and although I don't run with the Kenyans, it is still a great race and a cool experience.  Plus, they are only going to allocate 40 spots per race for the 2012 World Championships 70.3, so my chance to ever get in again is pretty slim.

I decided that any asterisk next to my name is pretty small given that I was top 15 at a tough race and broke 5 hours (last year I was 53rd).  Many of the guys in Kansas were 10-20 minutes slower than 2010 and I took off 11+ minutes from last year.  However, I do realize that I will be at the bottom of my age group.  With that said, maybe I can take 5-10 minutes off my time and sniff 4:50 in Vegas.   Still near the bottom, but definitely respectable.

As to exorcising (or exercising) my Ironman demons, I will have to wait.  I am going to try to get in Coeur d'Alene next June (if I get lucky), so I will hopefully not have to wait an entire year for Wisconsin again. Without a doubt, I am bummed that I will not be doing an Ironman this year, but to quote the Sperminator - "I'll be back."

Fred - thanks for defending me and best of luck in Wisconsin!!! 

I've no idea how hard KS is, but re: comments that if the OP can go 5 1/2 he's going to be bottom of his AG, just a discussion point.  Anyone here ever actually raced in Vegas/Lake Mead?  It's frickin hard.  It's definitely not Clearwater.  If you can climb, you have a great advantage over people qaulifying at flat venues.

I did the Halfmax long course championship out there in 2008. I got in via general entry slot, where most people qualified by time.  I thought I would get crushed.  During the race I talked to a few people that qualified in places like Florida and they said it was the hardest HIM they'd ever done by far.  I thought it was marginally difficult, not as hard as Wildflower, and ended up MOP in my AG (and I am nowhere near fast)

OP isn't going to win with a time like that, but being Vegas I'd wager he isn't going to be BOP.  Might be, might not.   Just an observation.

I had a similar reaction, but going in a slightly different direction -- does 5hr at KS translate to 5 1/2 on that course?  I haven't raced the course, but I will be doing ITU worlds in November so I've studied it.  Both the bike and the run have an awful lot of climbing.

Just don't sign up for IM-France also...its the same day as IM-CDA  WTC loves people like you..sign up for two events on the same day but only race one  No wonder their events sell out in minutes.

bryancd - 2011-06-15 2:27 PM

mallen4574 - 2011-06-15 11:18 AM

bryancd - 2011-06-15 11:55 AM

mallen4574 - 2011-06-15 10:53 AM The thing about Vegas is that it is a place for elite AGers to measure themselves against eachother. If you aren't in the mix it's just another half with a fancy name. .

Don't agree with this, either. This thread now officially annoys me.

It's a world championship. If this isn't what it is than what is it? The whole premise of the event is that the best AGers and pros qualify in different areas around the world and meet in one place to see who the fastest is.

Having done 70.3 races, 70.3 WC, Ironmans, and Ironman WC, I would say that yes, a 70.3 isn't the same experience as an IM BUT 70.3 WC are a lot of fun and WTC does make ALL the athletes feel like they are part of something special. So i would take 70.3 WC over another IM any day regardless of where I might finish. 70.3 < IM < 70.3WC's < Kona To the OP, you made a good call, maybe I'll see you there!

I have a feeling that most IMer's would disagree with you. 

tripadigin - 2011-06-15 4:28 PM

bryancd - 2011-06-15 2:27 PM

mallen4574 - 2011-06-15 11:18 AM

bryancd - 2011-06-15 11:55 AM

mallen4574 - 2011-06-15 10:53 AM The thing about Vegas is that it is a place for elite AGers to measure themselves against eachother. If you aren't in the mix it's just another half with a fancy name. .

Don't agree with this, either. This thread now officially annoys me.

It's a world championship. If this isn't what it is than what is it? The whole premise of the event is that the best AGers and pros qualify in different areas around the world and meet in one place to see who the fastest is.

Having done 70.3 races, 70.3 WC, Ironmans, and Ironman WC, I would say that yes, a 70.3 isn't the same experience as an IM BUT 70.3 WC are a lot of fun and WTC does make ALL the athletes feel like they are part of something special. So i would take 70.3 WC over another IM any day regardless of where I might finish. 70.3 < IM < 70.3WC's < Kona To the OP, you made a good call, maybe I'll see you there!

I have a feeling that most IMer's would disagree with you. 

I don't.  Although only 1 IM under my belt so not sure if I am an IMer.  IMs are held every year in tons of locations, and so long as you have the $650 $895 in your pocket and a fast internet connection, you're in.

Granted, I put less stock in the "WC" aspect than some others, but Kona is legendary, and although Vegas is new, I have a strong suspicion given the RD and the location that Vegas will follow suit.

ChrisM - 2011-06-15 7:41 PM

tripadigin - 2011-06-15 4:28 PM

bryancd - 2011-06-15 2:27 PM

mallen4574 - 2011-06-15 11:18 AM

bryancd - 2011-06-15 11:55 AM

mallen4574 - 2011-06-15 10:53 AM The thing about Vegas is that it is a place for elite AGers to measure themselves against eachother. If you aren't in the mix it's just another half with a fancy name. .

Don't agree with this, either. This thread now officially annoys me.

It's a world championship. If this isn't what it is than what is it? The whole premise of the event is that the best AGers and pros qualify in different areas around the world and meet in one place to see who the fastest is.

Having done 70.3 races, 70.3 WC, Ironmans, and Ironman WC, I would say that yes, a 70.3 isn't the same experience as an IM BUT 70.3 WC are a lot of fun and WTC does make ALL the athletes feel like they are part of something special. So i would take 70.3 WC over another IM any day regardless of where I might finish. 70.3 < IM < 70.3WC's < Kona To the OP, you made a good call, maybe I'll see you there!

I have a feeling that most IMer's would disagree with you. 

I don't.  Although only 1 IM under my belt so not sure if I am an IMer.  IMs are held every year in tons of locations, and so long as you have the $650 $895 in your pocket and a fast internet connection, you're in.

Granted, I put less stock in the "WC" aspect than some others, but Kona is legendary, and although Vegas is new, I have a strong suspicion given the RD and the location that Vegas will follow suit.

Just look at how far rolldowns go for 70.3WC slots...sometimes pretty far.  Case in point, a guy I know raced at the Steelhead 70.3 a couple of years ago, a really competitive race in Michigan. He double flatted and DNFed, but hung around at the roll down with friends. By the time his AG was reached the crowd was pretty thin. They went through the names of the top 20 finishers in his age group without finding a taker for the second slot to the 70.3 worlds in Clearwater. Then the announcer said, "Is there anybody here in this age group who FINISHED the race? We'll give him the slot."  Another example, last year at Eagleman the Clearwater slots went way down.  Moral of the story...70.3WC doesn't have the same panache as an IM, IMHO.

tripadigin - 2011-06-15 5:01 PM

ChrisM - 2011-06-15 7:41 PM

tripadigin - 2011-06-15 4:28 PM

bryancd - 2011-06-15 2:27 PM

mallen4574 - 2011-06-15 11:18 AM

bryancd - 2011-06-15 11:55 AM

mallen4574 - 2011-06-15 10:53 AM The thing about Vegas is that it is a place for elite AGers to measure themselves against eachother. If you aren't in the mix it's just another half with a fancy name. .

Don't agree with this, either. This thread now officially annoys me.

It's a world championship. If this isn't what it is than what is it? The whole premise of the event is that the best AGers and pros qualify in different areas around the world and meet in one place to see who the fastest is.

Having done 70.3 races, 70.3 WC, Ironmans, and Ironman WC, I would say that yes, a 70.3 isn't the same experience as an IM BUT 70.3 WC are a lot of fun and WTC does make ALL the athletes feel like they are part of something special. So i would take 70.3 WC over another IM any day regardless of where I might finish. 70.3 < IM < 70.3WC's < Kona To the OP, you made a good call, maybe I'll see you there!

I have a feeling that most IMer's would disagree with you. 

I don't.  Although only 1 IM under my belt so not sure if I am an IMer.  IMs are held every year in tons of locations, and so long as you have the $650 $895 in your pocket and a fast internet connection, you're in.

Granted, I put less stock in the "WC" aspect than some others, but Kona is legendary, and although Vegas is new, I have a strong suspicion given the RD and the location that Vegas will follow suit.

Just look at how far rolldowns go for 70.3WC slots...sometimes pretty far.  Case in point, a guy I know raced at the Steelhead 70.3 a couple of years ago, a really competitive race in Michigan. He double flatted and DNFed, but hung around at the roll down with friends. By the time his AG was reached the crowd was pretty thin. They went through the names of the top 20 finishers in his age group without finding a taker for the second slot to the 70.3 worlds in Clearwater. Then the announcer said, "Is there anybody here in this age group who FINISHED the race? We'll give him the slot."  Another example, last year at Eagleman the Clearwater slots went way down.  Moral of the story...70.3WC in Clearwater doesn't have the same panache as an IM, IMHO.

With the bold, I agree with you.  Largely because bike times were a joke due to large draft packs, a situation that is highly unlikely to be repeated in Vegas given the terrain.  It will be a much better test of individual fitness than pack bike handling skills

ETA, also btw there are stories every year of Kona slots rolling down ridiculously far.  I know of at least two last season, including one person from this very board who would have gotten a slot had they been at rolldown

ETA again, this is the expected, the race may in fact turn out to be as disrespected as Clearwater, but no one expects that to happen

ChrisM - 2011-06-15 8:12 PM

tripadigin - 2011-06-15 5:01 PM

ChrisM - 2011-06-15 7:41 PM

tripadigin - 2011-06-15 4:28 PM

bryancd - 2011-06-15 2:27 PM

mallen4574 - 2011-06-15 11:18 AM

bryancd - 2011-06-15 11:55 AM

mallen4574 - 2011-06-15 10:53 AM The thing about Vegas is that it is a place for elite AGers to measure themselves against eachother. If you aren't in the mix it's just another half with a fancy name. .

Don't agree with this, either. This thread now officially annoys me.

It's a world championship. If this isn't what it is than what is it? The whole premise of the event is that the best AGers and pros qualify in different areas around the world and meet in one place to see who the fastest is.

Having done 70.3 races, 70.3 WC, Ironmans, and Ironman WC, I would say that yes, a 70.3 isn't the same experience as an IM BUT 70.3 WC are a lot of fun and WTC does make ALL the athletes feel like they are part of something special. So i would take 70.3 WC over another IM any day regardless of where I might finish. 70.3 < IM < 70.3WC's < Kona To the OP, you made a good call, maybe I'll see you there!

I have a feeling that most IMer's would disagree with you. 

I don't.  Although only 1 IM under my belt so not sure if I am an IMer.  IMs are held every year in tons of locations, and so long as you have the $650 $895 in your pocket and a fast internet connection, you're in.

Granted, I put less stock in the "WC" aspect than some others, but Kona is legendary, and although Vegas is new, I have a strong suspicion given the RD and the location that Vegas will follow suit.

Just look at how far rolldowns go for 70.3WC slots...sometimes pretty far.  Case in point, a guy I know raced at the Steelhead 70.3 a couple of years ago, a really competitive race in Michigan. He double flatted and DNFed, but hung around at the roll down with friends. By the time his AG was reached the crowd was pretty thin. They went through the names of the top 20 finishers in his age group without finding a taker for the second slot to the 70.3 worlds in Clearwater. Then the announcer said, "Is there anybody here in this age group who FINISHED the race? We'll give him the slot."  Another example, last year at Eagleman the Clearwater slots went way down.  Moral of the story...70.3WC in Clearwater doesn't have the same panache as an IM, IMHO.

With the bold, I agree with you.  Largely because bike times were a joke due to large draft packs, a situation that is highly unlikely to be repeated in Vegas given the terrain.  It will be a much better test of individual fitness than pack bike handling skills

ETA, also btw there are stories every year of Kona slots rolling down ridiculously far.  I know of at least two last season, including one person from this very board who would have gotten a slot had they been at rolldown

ETA again, this is the expected, the race may in fact turn out to be as disrespected as Clearwater, but no one expects that to happen

You are altering my quotes...that's bad forum etiquette.

Not saying that they will not put on a great show, even in Clearwater for that matter...just sayin' that 70.3WC <  IM, as opposed to your ranking. 

Wondering if they were to open the 70.3WC to general entry...would it close out in minutes like IMNYC, IMLP, IMAZ, IMMOO, IMFL.  My guess is it would not.

Obviously not...because then it wouldn't be a WC.

IMs may have more appeal to a lot of people than 70.3 races, but there's nothing special or magical about an IM.  It's just another race distance.  For some of us, IM holds no appeal, while the challenge of 70.3 is something to get excited about.  It's an individual thing.

I did IMCdA in '09 and had a blast.  Beautiful location, great race and I performed well; and now I don't really have a desire to do another.  Meanwhile, I'm busting my tail to secure a Vegas slot either this year or 2012.  I skipped IMTX despite having registered and having it be less than 10 minutes from home simply because it didn't have any appeal.  No fun factor at all. 

I have to agree with Bryan that the 70.3 WC is "greater than" a run of the mill IM.  Anyone can register for and complete an IM.  Not anyone can qualify for and compete in a WC.  Even with the questionable exclusivity of the WC, it's still not a general entry race.