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2011-06-19 12:19 PM

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Subject: Need honest but kind opinions

I had a rough day yesterday and my ego is hugely bruised so kindness would be as appreciated as honesty today.  

I've been following the beginner HIM plan and am 12 weeks away from my race.  Yesterday I raced a sprint and had a rough time.  I have a swim background and my swim was really slow.  It was my first OWS of the season just due to weather and lack of training partner.  My first transition was a shocker, I couldn't get my wetsuit off to save my soul.  First 1/3 of the bike I was super shaky but got it together after that and my run was slow but steady.  My overall time was only 2 minutes better than my sprint last fall which I did with absolutely NO training.  My best friend decided to give triathlon a shot and did this race too, with the flu, and she beat me by 25 minutes.  Yes, you read that right, she just missed the fricking podium by 1 spot for heaven's sake!  I am slow and I know that and I've kind of assumed that it'll just get better as I keep training but I don't really seem to be getting better at any kind of pace here.  I've been training as hard and as consistently as I'm able but maybe this goal is just completely unrealistic for me.  I'm only aiming to complete the HIM, not "race" per se but I also don't want to be last by an hour either.  

The advantage of the HIM race course I've picked is that it's pancake flat and hills are my nemesis.  The swim is in a rowing basin so no waves and there are ropes on the bottom that apparently act much like lines on the bottom of the pool to keep you straight.  I have 12 weeks of training left to go and a half-iron swim/bike scheduled for July 10th.  I was considering sticking with the plan until after that race and seeing how I did then but maybe I should just flip to an Olympic plan now?  Or stick with the HIM plan but race Olympic?  I don't know.  I'm still in toe cages so I'm getting clipless as soon as I can this week to try to help my bike at least.

My sprint time was 1:42 so when I say I'm slow, I'm SLOW.  I'm ok with slow.  I'm not ok with setting my goals way above where they should be.  Help me see clearly please.



2011-06-19 12:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions

Your friend would more than likely bonk if she tried a longer race!  Remember that with a HIM, you're going for length and endurance, not time and speed.  Going slow right now is actually a strength; if you can go slow across the swim, that will help you in the rest of the race.

How much distance have you successfully covered in one workout so far? 

2011-06-19 12:32 PM
in reply to: #3556446

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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions

Well, I've yet to do a tri of any kind, but I can relate to you. I've done 7 HM's and I train harder and more hours per week than anyone I know. But my PB for the HM is 2:17. I get passed by seniors out for their Sunday stroll. Lots of people I know hardly train at all and are waaaaaay faster than me. It does get discouraging. My advice is never tell your friend what you're up to so she can't beat you again! :D

FWIW I still hope to do a HIM some day. (I was actually just reading the Esprit website before I popped in over here!

Every one says to not compare yourself to others, run your own race, etc etc, but it does get discouraging. Nonetheless, I think you know if it's reasonable for you. You can see the results page and figure where you'll likely finish. Is bottom 10% okay? Bottom 20%? WIll you only do it if you can finish in the middle? Only you can decide that.

2011-06-19 12:36 PM
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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions

It is my experience and from many of those I've watched that, unless you're one of those people who loses a lot of weight or very seriously dedicates yourself to training (and especially perhaps focusing on only one of the constituent sports), you don't get much faster your first few years. You just build the ability to train more and go longer.

It's completely irrelevant how your friend did.

Anyone can have a crappy race. Maybe you're tired from the HIM training (you did mention you were managing, but finding it to be quite significant, a few weeks ago).* Maybe the conditions were different than last year. And training transitions is the fourth sport. If you're going to wear a wetsuit for the HIM, for example, you need to practice getting it off when you are wet, dizzy, tired, and disoriented, and have just finished a run in it (from the water through the transition area).

Are your training and race paces (there are ways to adjust from sprint to HIM) likely to make the HIM cut-offs? You want to just finish, but not be last by an hour--well, so what if you are? Are you going to walk off the course because you don't want to be last?

Sounds like a good idea to do the aquabike on the 10th and reassess--maybe not even your fitness, but your feelings about it--at that time.

Look, it's not like any of your training will go to waste. For one thing ... if you didn't enjoy the training for its own sake, this is definitely the wrong sport to be in and you already know that. For another, all the base you've been building will serve you very well and goes to any future races you choose.

Where your goals SHOULD be is entirely up to you. If you're working with paces that are not likely to make the cutoffs, are you okay with giving it your best and maybe being pulled off the course?

*How are you managing HIM training, by the way? Is it still a struggle, are you reaching--or does it seem to be fitting in your schedule and your body's capabilities even if you're working hard? If it's really tough, this may not be the time to be training for a HIM and you might want to think about the Oly for your final race.

2011-06-19 12:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions
There are those of us who are built for speed and those of us who are built to stay in gear #1 and go forever. I am not built for speed but I can last a while at a low level of intensity. Keep plugging ahead and know that HIM is all about low intensity over a long period of time. Especially your first time. A good friend told me before my first marathon to "start slow and go slower". Nutrition and pacing are the biggest thing for HIM. Everyone has a bad race, or a bad training day. Try to analyze what, if anything, went wrong and write it down,learn from it and keep going.
2011-06-19 12:46 PM
in reply to: #3556446

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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions

Just from reading your post, I think I can say that you've got what it takes: motivation and the drive to improve.

The first thing, courses, even of supposedly the same distance, can vary A LOT because of the swim, the environmental conditions, and because of measurement errors. Triathlon courses are notorious for this. So don't worry too much about the time, look at how you do in comparison to other known competitors.

That said, I have coached a good number of highly successful athletes and, while you don't need to hire a coach for the season, I think it could help you a lot to sit down with a coach (or a very competent and experienced triathlete friend) with your training plan, your training log, your goals, your bike, your wetsuit and your other gear. Then that person could do a wholistic assessment of where you are, how far you've come, your progression, and your fit and your technique. Then you both could make a realistic evaluation of what's going on, or if you are actually making good progress. You might be doing something wrong that's pretty simple. Or not. If there as any way I can help, I would happy to try via phone (at no cost). My contact info is on the website signature below.



2011-06-19 1:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions

Looking at your logs, it seems (in my very novice opinion) that you are emphasizing the swim over bike and run.  If your strength is the swim, you may need to take a look at spending more time on and gathering more data in regards to how you are performing on the other two sports.  The fact that you can go into a swim workout and knock off 2800 meters in an hour is an indicator that you have a better than moderate aerobic capacity.  I doubt you'll be last in anything you do.

As the bike is generally the longest time portion of a triathalon, my personal opinion is that it should get the most time applied in training.  For me, running is second in priority because it is my weakness.  I love swimming, but it is not where I will likely make the most gains in a race (without some coaching, anyway). 

Do you have a bike computer?  Do you have a road bike?  The computer is an invaluable tool for me as self motivation. 

Don't let one sub par (in your opinion) performance get you down.  Easier said than done, but most every racer has had a let down.  The true competitor finds a way to overcome disappointment to achieve and exceed goals.

2011-06-19 1:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions

Don't compare yourself to others especially friends. We all have different genetics and backgrounds. Also you compare this sprint to a prior one. Was it the same course? How accurate was the swim measured? Were the conditions the same?

Why do you do this? Answer that and see how it frames up to how you are feeling.

I looked at your logs and there is no data prior to March. April you didn't train that much and May you trained more. Riding your bike 6-8 hours a month will make doing a HIM tough unless you have a big base in endurance sports.

You say you have been training consistently, for how long?

Sounds like your goal for HIM is to finish.

Until you get farther in your training, and have done a few ~ 3 hour rides, and longer runs and feel good doing them will you know how your training and preparation is. The HIM distance swim/bike will be telling.

Think of all you have gained doing tris and focus on the positive.

 

 

2011-06-19 2:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions

I think you also made the move of hugely underestimating the 'shock' of a 1st OWS.

 

I can guarantee that had you gotten a few OWS under your belt before the race, you would have had a much better overall day - not just on the swim segment. 

 

It's hard to regroup after feeling like you're thrashing your way through a swim that's not going at all as what you expected. I suspect this is what happened to you, and the fact that you finished within striking distance of last year's time shows that you almost definitely have improved, considering that most folks who experience 1st time season-swim panic lose 10-15 mins in a sprint swim right off the bat.

2011-06-19 2:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions
Keep up the training put the time on the bike and run.  Do the half, go out have fun and enjoy your self. I am sure you will do a lot better than expected.  GOOD LUCK!!!
2011-06-19 2:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions

sounds like you just had a bad day.

also, if you are training for a HIM, you are not training to optimize a sprint - you are training for the long haul, not the redline stuff.

keep you training and do the HIM



2011-06-19 2:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions
I'm totally new to this myself so I won't try to give you any advice about training triathlon stuff.I noticed you mentioned you have no training partner. Well, did your best friend enjoy the race? Maybe she would want to become your training partner?For motivation, read" I'm here to Win" by Chris mccormack. You will read that even at the top levels of the sport people have bad races and crushing personal defeats.In other sports and parts of life, I ALWAYS learned more from bad days than easy days. This last race will probably bring a new level of focus to your training and you will ultimately be glad you experienced it.
2011-06-19 3:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions
Lots of people said some good things. I had a recent crumby result hugely upping my training and getting a whopping 2 min pr on a marathon and falling about 15 min slower than my goal time. My buddy who hardly runs or worksout, like maybe twice a week, I beat him by like 3 min. So I know how u feel.

In the end I figured the race result is simultaneously the most important and least important thing. Not sure if that helps.

You'll do fine at your him.
2011-06-19 3:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions

Probably better not to read too much into the limited data from yesterday's race. Bad days happen. But perhaps the race disappointment is a good opportunity to take stock of where you stand based on a wider range of data. In that way you can tell whether this weekend's race was an outlier.

Was your 'slow but steady' run speed out of line with what you do in training (especially when running off the bike), or was it roughly where you'd expect? For your swim, did you feel that you had good form but just weren't as fast as you would be in the pool? Or did the OWS mess with your carefully honed stroke? Sounds like you weren't too dissatisfied with the bike. That's good, though a sprint bike leg and a HIM bike leg are different animals.

Are you following the plan, or are you missing some key components? (It seems from your logs that there are fewer sessions in there than the plan suggests, but there could be good reasons for that.) If you're able to keep to the plan, then it's probably best to trust that it will get you to the start line ready to do the distance. Your time in a sprint is little indication of how the HIM endurance is coming along.

Don't change your goal based on the results of one day. Only change your goal if the broader data raise too many alarm bells for you, and if you don't think you really want to go through with the plan. Having a rough day early in the season can serve as a really useful learning experience, which can yield big benefits later on.

Good luck!

2011-06-19 4:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions

Laurie,

First of all congratulations on your race, keep in mind 99% of the population don't do this crazy stuff called Triathlon.  This is just one race, many factors effecting you time etc.

When I started tri's I also expected at least a good swim split, even if I was slow on the bike and run so I can relate to the slight frustration.  But it's an open water swim so it will be much slower than pool swim times.  Breaking down the race you'll see that your swim was less than 16% of the total race time.  I would say for the remainder of the 12 weeks ahead focus on the bike and run and maintain the swim.  For  the HIM distance your swim time will be less than 1/10th the total time out there.

I just completed my first HIM, came out of the water 8th out of 102 in AG but finished 35th in AG at the finish.  In AG was 35th on the bike and 49th on the run.  If I can pick up 10 minutes on the bike I'd be happy to give up 5 on the swim.

Just looking at your picture you look strong and athletic so I would think you can achieve substantial improvements on the bike and run.

2011-06-19 5:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions

It looks to me like you tried to cram for the race. The week before the race you did more biking and running than you had in a while. So, you were probably not recovered from it and just tired.

The OWS problem and transition problem are just things to work on. That's why you did this race anyway... practice to get ready for the HIM. So, you accomplished that goal.

I felt exactly the same way after my race last week.  I thought I would be faster this year, but I'm just not. I'm able to do more distance earlier in the season, but no faster. It's too easy to feel bad by comparing myself to the faster athletes in my races instead of remembering that I'm doing better than most folks my age, I'm much healthier than I was just a few years ago, and I enjoy the sport (most of the time). Today I went for a nice, long bike ride and that seems to have broken the funk. So, I suggest that you go for a good workout and appreciate all that you can do.



2011-06-19 5:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions
KathyG - 2011-06-19 2:38 PM

Don't compare yourself to others especially friends. We all have different genetics and backgrounds. Also you compare this sprint to a prior one. Was it the same course? How accurate was the swim measured? Were the conditions the same?

Why do you do this? Answer that and see how it frames up to how you are feeling.

I looked at your logs and there is no data prior to March. April you didn't train that much and May you trained more. Riding your bike 6-8 hours a month will make doing a HIM tough unless you have a big base in endurance sports.

You say you have been training consistently, for how long?

Sounds like your goal for HIM is to finish.

Until you get farther in your training, and have done a few ~ 3 hour rides, and longer runs and feel good doing them will you know how your training and preparation is. The HIM distance swim/bike will be telling.

Think of all you have gained doing tris and focus on the positive.

 

 

X2..... Stay with the HIM and don't be considered with others .... Keep the training going!!!
2011-06-19 8:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions

I just wanted to say I feel ya on the bruised ego. I get flashbacks of junior high/high school. I wanted SO BADLY to play basketball and be good at it. I worked my butt off, practiced ten times more than others, improved so much....and ended up being slightly below average, still not nearly as good as the people who apparently had it in their genes, and sat the bench unless we were at least 20 points in the lead.

Sigh.

I feel that way with running sometimes. OK, a lot. I've been running for years and somebody will go from couch to their first 5k in a month and kill my 5k PR, and something along those lines isn't rare. I don't feel that way so much with biking but I definitely do with swimming, too.

I think that's why I want to do longer distances. OK, so lots of people can beat me in a 5k. Can they do a HIM? Or a marathon? But really, I'm trying to shift my focus more to myself and just enjoying what I'm doing. I had a fantastic run yesterday because I decided to stop worrying about the pace and about how fast my running buddy can go and just enjoying it. And in the end, my per mile pace was over a minute slower than hers but I didn't care because I had fun! If it stops being fun, I'll stop doing it, and I don't want to stop training.

2011-06-19 8:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions

Like my buddy from work told me from the start, "Have Fun" !!, unless your trying to be in the elite group of finishers !!, yes we all want to do well, always trying to do better than the last event, but keep in mind, no two events will be the same, water conditions vary, bike courses vary, run terrain varies, and most importantly, your mind set will vary !!!

You trained and came up short of your expectations, don't beat yourself up over it, give it a day or two and then think about what went wrong and why, and  go from there, remember, its suppose to be FUN !!!!

2011-06-19 8:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions
First off, just understand that some people are just gifted. Genetically they are athletes. It's just how it goes. Sounds like your friend might be one of those people. So cut yourself slack there.

My next questions are as follows:

1) When did you start training for this HIM exactly?

2) What is your background in triathlon? How much training have you done... before what your logs say? What kind of weekly volume (overall time wise) were you doing before starting on the training plan you picked?

3) Are you training in the right HR zone for the training you are doing? This far out, you should be doing all zone 2 work. To build on that question- have you tested yourself properly to know what your HR zones are?

4) Are your training logs 100% accurate? I noticed that you have been ramping up for the last month. And it's drastic! Going from 3 hours a week in volume... to 10 hours for a week... all in a month's time. If you were ramping up properly, you wouldn't have such a huge jump in hours... which makes me think your logs are not accurate.

Looking at your logs, I see the following for the month of May:
May's totals:
Bike: 8h 30m
Run: 7h 35m
Swim: 10h 15m - 8311.46 Yd
Pilates: 25m

Which isn't bad... a bit light on the cycling (only 8 hours for the month? That's 2 hours a week. Very low!)... otherwise the run (assuming you didn't go from 5 miles a week to 15 miles a week overnight!) and swim seem solid.

And now, you are most of the way through June with the following totals:
June's totals:
Bike: 5h 40m
Run: 4h 28m
Swim: 7h 00m

Just seems really low on the bike. At 3 months out, you should have a lot more volume than that.

One of my gals... who has not been doing triathlons THAT long... for her HIM coming up... 3 months out, she did 22 hours on the bike for the month with 12 hours of swimming and running. I use that as an example, because I started with her in Feb 2011 and she came to me with close to no volume going into training for her HIM.

If you aren't fast, then you need to get out there and train more! But train smart and properly. I see in your Logs, you have 4 weeks of build (back to the volume ramping up quickly), but no recovery week. ??? I understand if you are in base building, but base building usually has consistent volume, not a quick ramp up. Hum.

I will saw that the BT beginner HIM plan is way too light on the cycling- in my opinion. My boyfriend used it for his first HIM... and he wishes he would have ridden more.

Well, not sure if I helped or not. I will say if you going to go for the HIM, you need to get on the bike some more. Good luck!




2011-06-19 9:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions
what happened happened, put the race behind you and continue going for your goal! keep going steady, build your endurance and you will finish the half. trust me we all have our bad races or training periods but what makes a person a great athlete, triathlete in this case, is your ability to bounce back up and excel. as long as you get a couple 60 mile rides in and a couple 12 milers you will be able to finish it. best of luck on your half!


2011-06-19 9:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions

FIDO.  Forget it, Drive On.

Stay with your plan

I do note that you are swim heavy.  Like, more swim hours than run or bike.  If the swim is your strength, you should be working on your weaknesses the next 12 weeks (and get in a few OW swims).

Stick with the plan.  Good luck.  Self doubt plagues us all

2011-06-19 9:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions
I am one of those that puts in hours and hours of training and gets much less out of it than some of my friends.  It's maddening if I let myself really look at it.  But I can't.  I take my triumphs in my own improvements.  In my own races against myself.  Sometimes, like a recent 10k, they aren't what I want and honestly sucks.  Take some time to lick the wounds then look at what happened that might have contributed to why the day didn't go as well as you had hoped and then put those lessons into action.  I'm fortunate to have a coach who at times is more like a personal cheerleader but in the end satisfaction comes from within.  Be proud of yourself!
2011-06-19 10:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions

You can't get somewhere if you don't know where you're at. I'd do the HIM. One of two things will happen:

 

1. You'll finish.

2. You won't finish, but you'll know what your currently capable of and how far you still have to go. I see this as an advantage.

 

One thing I do know is that if you don't at least try the HIM, you won't finish for sure.

2011-06-19 10:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Need honest but kind opinions

You've gotten a lot of great advice already. Just wanted to add my 2 cents about the swim.

I love to swim. It is my strength in training. I don't love the swim in a race. I've just had to accept that, find a way to get it out of the way and move on. Today during my HIM I patted every bouy with a kiss on the second lap. It was my way of telling myself look, your almost out of this washing machine! Also helped me keep a straight line . My swim also suffered a lot with the increased volume of bike and run miles. It is hard to improve consistently at 3 different sports at the same time! It really is!

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