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2011-07-15 10:14 PM

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American Fork, Utah
Subject: Legs & Lungs

Okay, first of all, I'm new to any type of endurance training.  I have been running a mile or 2 about 4-5 times a week for about a month.  I also have been riding bike around 5 miles maybe 2-3 times a week for about 3 weeks.

My question is this......is it common for your legs to be sore when riding bike and your lungs to be sore when running?  Well, I guess I know it is common, but how long does it take for that to go away, or does it never go away if you are increasing the distance or intensity?

Yesterday I pulled my 2 youngest daughters (I have 4 total - ages 13, 10, 6 and 2.5) in the bike trailer (with hills) for 5 miles and my legs were killing me when I got done, still are actually.

I ride a mountain bike with under-inflated tires (my pump won't do more than 30 psi) so that doesn't help I'm sure.

Is it more important to get the 5 "hard" miles of riding in or would it make more sense to get a road bike and go longer time and distance?

I know, a lot of questions, but I trust there will also be a lot of answers too.

Thanks,

FERG



2011-07-15 10:22 PM
in reply to: #3599185

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Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs

Nothing should be sore WHILE doing something, unless you're still sore from a previous workout.  Do you mean they simply hurt when performing these activities?  Soreness usually refers to pain and stiffness post-workout.  The more you do an activity, the more you adapt, the less the soreness.  Of course, then you just ramp up the effort more and you're sore again.

I suspect you're really just referring to a burning sensation in your legs and lungs during these activities.  It's sort of part of the game if you're really exerting yourself.  As for your lungs though, depending on how severe, might want to make sure you don't have something like asthma.

But you shouldn't be redlining every workout to the point you're in that kind of pain.  It's hard to tell from your logs, but I suspect you might be trying to run too fast.  Your runs look reasonable fast, but very short.  Try adding a few longer easier runs to your schedule.  You don't need to be pushing at 100% to build endurance.  The best endurance building workouts tend to be very long sustained easy to moderate efforts.



Edited by apicek 2011-07-15 10:25 PM
2011-07-15 10:28 PM
in reply to: #3599185

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American Fork, Utah
Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs
I'm terrible at describing what I mean, but I guess you're right, not sore like painfull, rather a feeling like I lack the leg strength to pedal that hard when climbing hills and when running I feel like I'm really huffing and puffing.  I'm pretty sure I don't have anything wrong, just out of shape.
2011-07-15 10:38 PM
in reply to: #3599185

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Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs

You don't say what kind of intensitities you are training at but you may need to ease up a bit there which may allow you to gradually start adding more distance which will help with your endurance.  Especially with the run.

Again you don't mention what gear you are biking in, but you could try biking in a lower gear with higher cadence if you don't feel like you have the leg strength.  And yes I think biking at 30psi would be tough in any gear (especially pulling around 2 children).  You may want to invest in a decent pump or heck take the bike over to the nearest gas station and throw 50 cents in the air machine to pump them up for the time being.

And no you don't need a road bike to accomplish what you're trying to do.

2011-07-15 10:45 PM
in reply to: #3599185

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American Fork, Utah
Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs

As for the gear, I have a Gary Fischer 21 speed mountain bike with stock components.  I always ride with it on the big ring because my middle ring seems to jump off at times and the small one makes me pedal a 1000 revs and I don't go anywhere.  So, with that said, I always go with the big ring and then just move from 1 to 7 depending on the incline of the terrain.

As for the running, I have 7 year old cross-training Nikes which are blown out on the sides and should be retired. 

2011-07-16 12:13 AM
in reply to: #3599185

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Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs

Ok,

You don't need top of the line equipment, but you do need reliable equipment.  This sport, this lifestyle, requires significant investment of dedication, time, and energy.  It also requires at least some financial investment to make sure you don't injur yourself.

First, get new shoes.  Second get a bike pump.   I'm assuming you have a bike helmet.

It sounds to me like you are "Mashing" on the bike.  Doing 5 miles on hills, with kids, on a moutain bike sounds like more of a feat of Hercules than a feat of Hermes.

While this is a good workout it may be over doing it.  What you want, eventually, is to be able to spin at a nice easy pace, and move the gears to keep you pretty consistent effort while you may move slower or faster.

And take VERY seriously the suggestion to slow down the run.  When I first started running with my wife I would take off and be 1/4th a mile into the run before she had gotten 10 yards into it.  by 1/2 a mile she was just getting started, and I was half dead on the side of the trail.

Running at her pace I have been able to build up to her distance, and then increase my pace from there.



2011-07-16 4:16 AM
in reply to: #3599185

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Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs
I'm a newbie but pulling the two kids on under inflated tires will add so much resistance to your ride. I pull my daughter in the trailer bike to school. She's about 50 lbs but she pedals a bit so it's usually a breeze. But once we went out for the ride and I didn't fill my tires up before we left. It was crazy hard.
2011-07-16 5:36 AM
in reply to: #3599185

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Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs
I'm just guessing, but it sounds like you need to make a few changes. As was said, decent running shoes are a necessity, not an option. It's not worth injuring yourself because you didn't have adequate footwear. You should also consider a pump that will inflate your tires properly. On the bike: you're almost certainly mashing. This means you're using too hard of a gear, causing your cadence to be too slow. Your pedals should spin between 80-100 rpm. Change gears until that happens. Next, the run. Most of your running should be at an easy effort at this point. Ignore the suggestions to run farther once a week. Just keep doing short runs +/-5 times a week at an easy effort, gradually adding distance to most of them (try to limit increases to a maximum of 10% per week, occasionally doing 2 weeks in a row with no increase) until you're running +/- 3 miles each time. From there, you can consider building one run into a weekly long run. By easy effort, I mean you should be able to talk in a full sentence. If you can only spit out a syllable or two, you're going too hard. If you can ramble off a full paragraph, you're not going hard enough. Welcome to BT! ETA: Sorry about the giant paragraph. I can't format posts properly from my phone.

Edited by TriMyBest 2011-07-16 5:39 AM
2011-07-16 6:25 AM
in reply to: #3599201

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Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs
FERG DADDY - 2011-07-15 10:45 PM

As for the gear, I have a Gary Fischer 21 speed mountain bike with stock components.  I always ride with it on the big ring because my middle ring seems to jump off at times and the small one makes me pedal a 1000 revs and I don't go anywhere.  So, with that said, I always go with the big ring and then just move from 1 to 7 depending on the incline of the terrain.

As for the running, I have 7 year old cross-training Nikes which are blown out on the sides and should be retired. 

Have you cleaned and lubed the chain recently? Does it jump off when you are trying to change to another gear or just at random when you are pedaling? How much wear and tear is on your chain? If it is jumping around the chain may be stretched (you might need a new chain).

I agree with others that pulling two kids with out enough air in your tires, up and down hills, in the big ring has to be mashing your legs.  Do you ever get to ride without the little ones? By the way, that would be a nightmare to me since one of the major reasons I do this is for Mommy time LOL!

x 1000 to air up your tires properly and get new running shoes!!!!!!! Both of those things will help you so much. Well, new running shoes will not really help your lungs but you know what I mean .

Welcome to BT!

2011-07-16 1:40 PM
in reply to: #3599185

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American Fork, Utah
Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs

Ran the longest run of my entire life today...............5 miles!  I did it in 49:28.  I was hoping to do it under an hour, so when I looked at the watch I was pretty pleased with sub-50.  Around the 3 to 3.5 mark I was considering walking the rest, but I had told my daughter (13) that I was going to do it without walking and she didn't think I could. 

During the run I realized that it really might not be my lungs that are tired, but rather my entire body.  Like I said, I have had zero endurance training, so this is all new to me.  While I do it I kind of hate it, but when I am done, I am pumped from the accomplishment.

My calves are a little tight, but I otherwise feel like I could do it again tonight.  I think I might just do an easy 2 mile bike ride later, just the wife and I.  I plan to get the tires pumped up prior to biking.

I appreciate all of the helpful and encouraging words, it really helps to have the knowledge and experiences of all of you behind me.

Thanks!

FERG

2011-07-17 9:07 PM
in reply to: #3599185

Regular
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American Fork, Utah
Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs
Bought new shoes yesterday.  Afraid to try them for fear of getting blisters.  One more question about running....................does it make a difference if you run with music?  All of my runs have been done with me listening to my feet hitting the pavement and listening to myself huffing and puffing.


2011-07-18 8:21 AM
in reply to: #3599185

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Runner
Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs
I will comment specifically about your running, because I am not a cyclist.

Here is your problem (get ready, it's gonna blow your mind);



You are working at too hard an effort level.


You need to back off the intensity. For 90% of your runs, you should finish feeling good and ready to turn around to do it all again, and I mean the exact same run at the exact same effort level.

Yes, you are out of shape. But trying to set personal records in training isn't going to mean a hill of beans in a month or six.

Here is my opinion on what you should do:

1) Track either time or distance, not both. In other words, run either a given distance or a given amount of time. DO NOT LOOK AT BOTH. Looking at distance and time will get you into the mindset of trying to set PRs during workouts; bad idea.

2) Ease up on the effort level. Unless you're going up Pike's Peak right now, or you are in a race, you should not be huffing and puffing during your runs. If you find that your breathing is becoming labored, your lungs or legs are getting that burning sensation, back off. Walk until your body comes back to more normal levels, then start up again.

Those are the two most important things you can do right now.
2011-07-18 8:24 AM
in reply to: #3600868

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Runner
Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs
FERG DADDY - 2011-07-17 10:07 PM

Bought new shoes yesterday.  Afraid to try them for fear of getting blisters.  One more question about running....................does it make a difference if you run with music?  All of my runs have been done with me listening to my feet hitting the pavement and listening to myself huffing and puffing.


Blisters are a fact of life. If the shoes fit properly, you should not get blisters very often, if at all. And if you do get blisters, pop them, drain them, and bandage them. They are blisters, not compound fractures.

Make a difference in terms of what? If you enjoy running with out music (as I do), then continue to do so. If you feel that it will help you gain a greater enjoyment from your running, then by all means put in the earbuds.

That being said, I personally prefer no music because I feel it gives me a better level of being in tune with my body. But that's a personal preference.
2011-07-18 8:27 AM
in reply to: #3600868

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Lafayette, CO
Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs

FERG DADDY - 2011-07-17 8:07 PM Bought new shoes yesterday.  Afraid to try them for fear of getting blisters.  One more question about running....................does it make a difference if you run with music?  All of my runs have been done with me listening to my feet hitting the pavement and listening to myself huffing and puffing.

If your shoes fit right and you have decent socks just wear them.  The only shoes I've gotten blisters in were ones that didn't fit.  Did you go to a running store (not a big box sports store) and get fit properly?

As far as music goes, some people like it, some don't.  I use it on about half of my runs.  

And I agree with Scout.  Slow down.  

2011-07-18 10:36 AM
in reply to: #3599185

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American Fork, Utah
Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs

For some reason I feel compelled to PR every time I run and I am disappointed with myself if I don't.  I can't say I was dying after the 5 miles, but I don't think I could have done it again at that speed without a rest.

As for the shoes, I went to a running shoe store, but they didn't have anything under $100, so as always, I went the cheaper route and bought a pair of $42 running shoes from a department store.  My thought is that new shoes, any new shoes will be better than my current shoes.  Is that fair to say? 

My deal with the music is tied back to the PR thing.  I like to set goals for myself, so of course I want to run my 5 miles even faster next time.  Should my goal instead be 6 miles untimed?  I don't know how best to build my endurance.

2011-07-18 10:52 AM
in reply to: #3601651

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Runner
Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs
You are not alone. And unfortunately, beginners are cursed with being beginners....

Personally, I have not had many issues with shoes, and I almost never buy them from a running-specific shop anymore. So long as you pay attention to your feet and legs, I think you are fine.

So, you are goal-oriented when it comes to training... Something to work with at least. Here's how I would frame your goals:

Right now, your goal is to focus on figuring out what "easy" feels like. Tell yourself that you want to finish each workout feeling ready to go again. Take your time with it, play around with things. Maybe you track mileage, maybe you track time, doesn't matter. What matters is that you focus on yourself only, not PRs and pace. Let yourself get into a groove. That means STOP LOOKING AT PACE. It is distracting you, because your goals are misaligned with each other. You cannot have a short-term goal of setting a PR every run, and still have a long-term goal of general health, fitness, and long-term improvement.

Trust me. Focus on ONE THING right now. If you find yourself trying to do too much, re-focus your mind on the ONE THING. This method will help build your endurance, if you give it time and opportunity.


2011-07-18 3:20 PM
in reply to: #3599277

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Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs

Fergdaddy

 

x 1000 to air up your tires properly and get new running shoes!!!!!!! Both of those things will help you so much. Well, new running shoes will not really help your lungs but you know what I mean .

Welcome to BT!

I would agree fix your bike and put some air in the tires you run the risk of getting a flat.

2011-07-21 6:51 PM
in reply to: #3599185

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American Fork, Utah
Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs

Well, I took all of the advice that was given..........sort of.  I put air in the bike tires and tried riding in lower gears, especially on the hills.  I am definately noticing a difference in my endurance on the bike.

I have riden a few times on the bike without timing myself too.  I ran a couple of times without the stopwatch, but then today I felt compelled to grab the watch and run 3 miles just to see where I am.  I was able to PR once again, but was contemplating quitting and walking (didn't though) as usual.

I signed up for my first 5k to be run August 6th.  It is a XC 5k.  My boss will be running it and he has completed 3 5k's this year.  He is 1 year older so we are in the same age group.  Any short term training ideas that can give me an edge 2 weeks from now when we race?

PS:  Didn't run in the new shoes yet, I think I am going to take them back and get better ones.



Edited by FERG DADDY 2011-07-21 6:53 PM
2011-07-22 7:12 AM
in reply to: #3609109

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Runner
Subject: RE: Legs & Lungs
There isn't really any workouts you can do that will give you a fitness edge in the next 2 weeks.

However, I would try to go out and run the course a bunch of times. Having a thorough knowledge of the course, especially if it's a XC course, gives you an opportunity to create a strategy. When should you surge, when should you let him run away a bit, where are the choke points? Those are all good questions that require knowing the course ahead of time.
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