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How much does your bike really matter? (Page 2)
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 2011-07-26 1:16 PM in reply to: #3615421 |
Pro  5755    |  Subject: RE: How much does your bike really matter?Kido - 2011-07-26 12:18 PM Some of the best advice I ever heard/read is will the new bike give you the extra "umph" factor to ride? I mean, do you go to the garage and look at the old bike regretting that you have to go out on it? Will you look at sexy new TT bike and just be itching to get on and ride? Lots to be said about the psychology of buying a new bike. I did this 3 weeks ago and feel obligated to train more and do the bike (and $$$ spent) justice. Peer pressure helps too, can't be at the back all the time now or I'll never hear the end of it. I keep my bike in my office so I can look at it all day Motivation comes in all forms! |
| 2011-07-26 2:05 PM in reply to: #3615515 |
Veteran 157 Hillsborough, NJ | Subject: RE: How much does your bike really matter? GaryRM - 2011-07-26 12:58 PM Upgraded my 1998 aluminum Tequilo to a 2008 carbon Seduza (new to me). Great decison and only cost me ~$1000 (less if you take out what I got for my Tequilo). Rides nicer, I feel I have a better position on the bike and it looks so dang cool! If you are Lance A then the bike won't make much difference, if you are Joe/Jane triathlete it probably will. Be thoughtful and get a bike that doesn't break the bank but improves upon what you have. To me, it was worth it. This sounds like the best of both worlds - especially on a budget. Sell your beginner bike here and get a used version of what you want. If you really want one I say go for it - sometimes trying to make your current bike better is just as expensive as selling and getting a better one...and it's still not exactly what you want! |
| 2011-07-26 2:49 PM in reply to: #3615388 |
Extreme Veteran 528 Severna Park, MD | Subject: RE: How much does your bike really matter? garrunning - 2011-07-26 1:05 PM gsmacleod - 2011-07-26 10:47 AM garrunning - 2011-07-26 1:45 PM Sprint's in my mind don't really need a tribike. Oly's are on the edge, I am curious as to why you believe this. ShaneI haven't done alot of tri's but in the short distance of a spint that I have done I seen alot of biker's killing it on a road bike that they were very comfortable on. The top three guy's were on road bike's. I don't know how much time they would gain on a tt bike for 12 miles. " I have seen people on road bikes as well.... but does a TT/tri bike make a difference? Go to a local Cycling only 20k time trial and look at how many road bikes there will be. Not many. Just because the distance is less, doesn't mean the time savings isn't there. Sure it is less, but very much still there. In fact, at 25-27 mph average (where some of the top sprint guys are) Aero is very very important. All but 2 of the tri's I have done the top people are on tri bikes. The two that weren't? Well they were won by an ITU guy who crushed the entire field. |
| 2011-07-26 2:56 PM in reply to: #3615238 |
Champion 7547 Albuquerque, New Mexico Bronze member | Subject: RE: How much does your bike really matter? My bike is packed in a box ready for an airplane ride to California. It matters a lot...if it doesn't show up, I got no race Saturday. (Actually, if it doesn't show up, "Plan B" is to rent a road bike for $200 if they're still available...) One of the bike monsters that I ride with on Tuesdays usually shows up with an old-school bike (steel frame, a lot of times downtube shifters, stock wheels). He can drop me in a heartbeat whether I'm on my roadie or my tri bike. A couple years ago, I was riding back towards town on my tri bike into a headwind. I'm tucked down as aero as I can get, and a guy on a road bike comes up from behind. We ride together for a mile or two and he's sitting up, hands on his hoods not out of breath or anything while I'm tucked down, pedaling furiously, and barely able to grunt single-syllable responses to his questions. Another time, I'm cranking along at 18+ mph trying to catch my buddie (I had to get something out of my car and sent him ahead) and a guy on a mountain bike passes me like I'm standing still. I contemplated for 2 seconds trying to keep up with him before admitting defeat. Is buying a tri bike the best use for the family $$ ? Hard to say...it won't be "magic" and you might be disappointed how little difference it makes in your pace. |
 2011-07-26 3:14 PM in reply to: #3615397 |
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| 2011-07-26 3:27 PM in reply to: #3615388 |
| Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: How much does your bike really matter? garrunning - 2011-07-26 2:05 PM I don't know how much time they would gain on a tt bike for 12 miles. I have done extensive testing between my road and tribike and I gain between 5-7s/km when going from the hoods on my road bike to my tribike. I could gain some of this if I put aerobars on my road bike but I haven't bothered testing this position; best guess is that I get 2-3s/km from the hoods to aerobars on my road bike. So, I am looking at 1:40-2:20 saved on the bike leg of a sprint distance race and that is before I add in anything else besides the switch from one bike to another (aero helmet, race wheels, good tires/tubes, trisuit) which is worth it to me for an event that lasts just over an hour. Shane |
| 2011-07-26 3:30 PM in reply to: #3615397 |
| Master 4118 Toronto Bronze member | Subject: RE: How much does your bike really matter? mgalanter - 2011-07-26 1:10 PM ifoundit921 - 2011-07-26 12:31 PM I'm just curious to the upgrade in wheels and the switch from aluminum to carbon fiber on a new ride. Carbon frame is not faster than Aluminum (or other material). The wheels don't make as much of a difference as most people think - they look cool but have a poor speed gain-per-dollar spent return. The main reasons a tribike is fast than a roadbike are: - Geometry of frame: Triframe, with its steeper seat tube angle, lower headset, etc. - a tribike puts you in a position to generate high amounts of sustained power, particularly on flatter terrain. At the same time your body is much more aerodynamically positioned because of the bent-forward position over the aerobars. The downside is that you lose the maneuverability and agility of a road bike. Climbing, sudden accelerations and sprints are more comfortable on a road bike. - Aerodynamics: The tribike gets your body in a more aerodynamic position AND the frame and components are typically more aerodynamic than road bikes.
ifoundit921 - 2011-07-26 12:31 PM The key question that I'm seeking to answer is just how much could the equipment upgrade increase my performance versus just continually using that "engine"....is it really just the engine?
The best value-for-money for most of us age-group athletes is to improve the engine BUT a new, sexy bike makes the sport more fun. And when you have more fun you want to do more of it. A new bike may get you riding more, training harder - then its a good investment. If you plan on doing at least a few seasons of triathlon then a tribike might be a good way to spend your discretionary income. That was my reasoning for buying a nice Cervelo that was more bike than I really needed.
Agree with everything said - and in a similar boat. I bought a beautiful Felt B12 for a great deal this spring. I can't say i am much faster (i just don't ride it to it's potential) - it's really about the engine. It's a great bike and i am super happy with and it does motivate me. I feel like it's more bike than i deserve considering my lack of cycling ability but one day out on a ride, a roadie pulled up and complimented my bike. I was embarrassed and said something to effect of 'i don't deserve it' and he came back with: "No one really deserves it or needs it" he said, since it's a hobby and we're not pros - it just makes it more fun. Now, back to you - if money is a big issue - then either look for a used bike if you still really want it or save up some cash for a few years to buy a bike you really want. It's fun to shop for bikes and to have something to look forward to!
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| 2011-07-26 3:30 PM in reply to: #3615334 |
Master 1367 Dirt Road | Subject: RE: How much does your bike really matter? TriAya - 2011-07-26 12:44 PM ifoundit921 - 2011-07-27 1:31 AM
The difference between a cycling position on a roadie and a tri bike, you're looking at (ballpark) 2-3mph. That could be a lot, especially over HIM or IM distance. The difference between a tri fit on a roadie and a tri bike, you're looking at 1mph. Max. That's not a lot, and especially not in short course. I'm going to say that in your case, for now, it really is just the engine.
I can give testimony to this. |
| 2011-07-26 3:31 PM in reply to: #3615405 |
| Master 1367 Dirt Road | Subject: RE: How much does your bike really matter? agarose2000 - 2011-07-26 1:12 PM Here's the truth:
Unless you're a pro or elite, it's definitely NOT about the bike. Even if you are an elite, it's still not about the bike. It's all about your human engine.
I'm a FOP rider, and I have both a $$$$ Cervelo TT bike and an entry level $650 Giant bike I bought AFTER the Cervelo because I needed a pure road bike. I ride the Giant all stock except for tires which I wore out and replaced with Gatorskins. It's aluminum with an alloy fork - no CF.
Guess what - aside from the aerobar factor, the bikes are essentially identical in speed. On my downloaded GPS rides, my nondraft times on climbs are identical, and close enough on flats that the aerobars are likely the only difference.
I also ride regularly with similarly strengthed riders, and the guys who ride just ahead or just behind me on the hammerparts are still exactly in the same place despite what bike I ride. And in fact, the Giant is actually MORE comfortable to ride than the Cervelo - aside from the TT position, the carbon frame of the Cervelo is super-stiff (well known) - very little damping of shock there. The guys at the LBS said they have people coming in who have rattled the components right off their Cervelo frame. Despite the alu Giant, it's definitely a smoother (albeit less lively) ride. I am convinced that I could ride to exactly the same placing that I do on my Cervelo using my Giant bike with clip-on aerobars - in fact, sans aerobars, I would probably be nearly identically placed as well. The components also matter little - yes, the Sora stuff is a bit slower on the shift, but it won't fail and can hammer just as well as DA.
The only speed-related upgrades after getting a true road bike that I'd consider for real gains are 1) Aerobars (they do give you about 1-1.5mph on a flat or downhill) and 2) Aero helmet (not expensive). All the rest like wheels and aero CF frame look great, and I'd get them in a heartbeat if given to me, but the gains are so miniscule - seconds on the hour, for the huge $1000+ outlay that it's not worth it to me.
For those on a budget, all the bike you need to win triathlons is a correctly fitted (not talking PRO-fit here) $700 road bike (like the Specialized Secteur or Trek 1.1 or Giant Defy3) and possibly a set of $100 aerobars. You will have almost no disadvantage (
^^^Truth |
| 2011-07-26 3:40 PM in reply to: #3615238 |
| Veteran 307 Liberty Lake, WA | Subject: RE: How much does your bike really matter? I see lots of post likes this and for the most part...its not even a question...you do triathlons...go buy a triathlon bike...lol I personally believe that if you are even considering the fact that you do not like your road bike and that you want a triathlon bike...it will eventually happen. Just give in now and get one. lol. |
| 2011-07-26 3:44 PM in reply to: #3615238 |
| Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: How much does your bike really matter? For everyone that says the road bike is all you need to match the speed of a tri bike, what about the run off the bike? There are plenty of sources that show that the geometry of a tri bike helps the run as well as gives a quicker bike split.
Edit: Also this http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=251963&start=1 Edited by msteiner 2011-07-26 3:57 PM |
| 2011-07-26 3:58 PM in reply to: #3615421 |
| Extreme Veteran 792 | Subject: RE: How much does your bike really matter? Kido - 2011-07-26 10:18 AM Some of the best advice I ever heard/read is will the new bike give you the extra "umph" factor to ride? I mean, do you go to the garage and look at the old bike regretting that you have to go out on it? Will you look at sexy new TT bike and just be itching to get on and ride? ...That is what every real estate agent said about homes in 2008. |
| 2011-07-26 6:24 PM in reply to: #3615811 |
| Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: How much does your bike really matter? msteiner - 2011-07-26 5:44 PM For everyone that says the road bike is all you need to match the speed of a tri bike, I didn't see anyone say that a road bike and tribike would result in the same speed; rather that an athlete needs to make a decision as to what is worth it to them. A tribike should be faster and depending on the setup, could be quite a bit faster, however this may not be worth it to a given athlete. what about the run off the bike? There are plenty of sources that show that the geometry of a tri bike helps the run as well as gives a quicker bike split. There are a couple of studies that suggest this; there are also quite a few studies that show that STA doesn't have a great deal of impact on the run leg, rather bike pacing plays the most significant role in the ability to run well off the bike. If athletes really ran better off a steep STA, one would expect that the majority of ITU athletes would be riding steep STA bikes. Shane |
| 2011-07-26 6:41 PM in reply to: #3615781 |
| Veteran 581 | Subject: RE: How much does your bike really matter? gsmacleod - 2011-07-26 2:27 PM garrunning - 2011-07-26 2:05 PM I don't know how much time they would gain on a tt bike for 12 miles. I have done extensive testing between my road and tribike and I gain between 5-7s/km when going from the hoods on my road bike to my tribike. I could gain some of this if I put aerobars on my road bike but I haven't bothered testing this position; best guess is that I get 2-3s/km from the hoods to aerobars on my road bike. So, I am looking at 1:40-2:20 saved on the bike leg of a sprint distance race and that is before I add in anything else besides the switch from one bike to another (aero helmet, race wheels, good tires/tubes, trisuit) which is worth it to me for an event that lasts just over an hour. ShaneThats a good point but my point was is it worth $2000 for the OP. It was worth it for me but I was considering longer distance. |
| 2011-07-26 7:11 PM in reply to: #3616050 |
| Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: How much does your bike really matter? garrunning - 2011-07-26 8:41 PM Thats a good point but my point was is it worth $2000 for the OP. It was worth it for me but I was considering longer distance. I was simply responding to your statement that a tribike was not important for a sprint and only possibly for an oly. Shane |
| 2011-07-26 7:39 PM in reply to: #3616080 |
| Veteran 581 | Subject: RE: How much does your bike really matter? gsmacleod - 2011-07-26 6:11 PM garrunning - 2011-07-26 8:41 PM Thats a good point but my point was is it worth $2000 for the OP. It was worth it for me but I was considering longer distance. I was simply responding to your statement that a tribike was not important for a sprint and only possibly for an oly. ShaneSorry if you took that as being sarcastic or rude. I agree with your comment and see your point |
| 2011-07-26 8:17 PM in reply to: #3615238 |
| Veteran 215 North Carolina | Subject: RE: How much does your bike really matter? Go drop a load of cash on it. Not only will you have better equipment, you're training will intensify to prove to yourself and others that it was a smart purchase! |
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