General Discussion Triathlon Talk » GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone... Rss Feed  
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2011-08-01 4:56 AM

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Subject: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...
So, just out of curiosity -- which is likely to be more accurate? If I run with my Garmin (310XT) and a smartphone app (Endomodo, but have had similar results with other apps as well), the smartphone always shows the run to be longer than the Garmin. Not that it matters all that much, training is training, but it does make me wonder which is more accurate? My guess is the Garmin -- what says BT?




2011-08-01 5:57 AM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...
For a couple rides I carried three different types of Garmin with me. Not once did they ever match up for time or distance.

I say train with one and stick with it, comparing it only to itself on other occasions.

2011-08-01 9:11 AM
in reply to: #3623087

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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...
The problem with both the Garmin & the phone is the GPS antenna is not big. GPS is really line of sight to the sky and anything that impairs it (tree cover, tall buildings, cloud cover, etc.). You'll find neither ARE that accurate but both are quite adequate for most training. I use my Garmin 305 for everything.
2011-08-01 9:13 AM
in reply to: #3623087

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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...
If I had to guess, I would tend towards the Garmin, merely because GPS tracking is its primary purpose, and GPS is not your phone's primary purpose. That being said, I have no real scientific data to say for certain.
2011-08-01 9:15 AM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...
Ive run with both Nike+ on my Iphone and Garmin 305 on my wrist and am regularly within .01 to .03 on 5+ mile runs.   Definately more than adequate for my needs
2011-08-01 9:20 AM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...

The first thing to look at is how often each checks the satelight.  If your phone does it every 5 seconds, and the garmin every one then it is more likely not to miss some detail.

But it might be a matter of where you are carrying them, and how the route goes.

For example, if one is on your left wrist, and the other is in your right pocket, the one in the pocket might get fewer updates.  But it might happen that the wrist misses the last few feet before a turn around while the one on the right just misses that the trail veered left and back to the right.

 



2011-08-01 9:22 AM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...
kburk09 - 2011-08-01 10:15 AM

Ive run with both Nike+ on my Iphone and Garmin 305 on my wrist and am regularly within .01 to .03 on 5+ mile runs.   Definately more than adequate for my needs


I get a much larger discrepancy than that -- like nearly a 10% difference - i.e., the other day I got a 0.5 mile difference on a 7-ish mile run, and today a 0.3 mile difference on a 4 mile run....
2011-08-01 9:26 AM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...

jsnowash - 2011-08-01 9:22 AM

 I get a much larger discrepancy than that -- like nearly a 10% difference - i.e., the other day I got a 0.5 mile difference on a 7-ish mile run, and today a 0.3 mile difference on a 4 mile run....

With that big of a difference I would use map my run, gmaps, or the route section here on BT to check the distance.

 

2011-08-01 9:44 AM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...

The streets I live and run around on are a grid, so when I go for a run the distance from street intersection to street intersection is always either one mile or half a mile. My Garmin 305 is always spot on for the distance and I see no noticeable variation in distance measuring, so my vote is Garmin.

If you really want to know I'd suggest running a known distance and seeing which device comes the closest to what it should be.

2011-08-01 9:49 AM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...

I wonder how often any GPS unit "drops points."  I use a GPS at work for measuring fields and if I select "route" it drops a point depending what you set it for, 5 seconds, 7 seconds, etc.  If I turn a corner, I pause to make sure it drops a point or two at the corner. 

My running partner uses RunKeeper on his iPhone & we run several laps on a 1 mile route through town.  His maps look like he walks through peoples yards, cut corners & w/ today's through some houses.  We stay on the road, but that is what the map looks like. 

I don't have a Garmin or anything similar so I don't know if you can set the device to drop points more often.  Granted, with dropping more points, that is more data & memory. 

2011-08-01 10:10 AM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...
i train with a Garmin 310.  I did my first track workout with it last week.  I was quite surprised how accurate it was .  Every single quarter mile, half mile, and full mile were right at the exact same spot on the track.  I expected it to be accurate, but not that good.


2011-08-01 12:17 PM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...

peteweb55403 - 2011-08-01 11:10 AM i train with a Garmin 310.  I did my first track workout with it last week.  I was quite surprised how accurate it was .  Every single quarter mile, half mile, and full mile were right at the exact same spot on the track.  I expected it to be accurate, but not that good.

FWIW, in all likelihood, that demonstrates some (very) modest inaccuracy.  On a standard (400m) track, you have to go a little more than 4 laps for 1 mile (on the inner lane).  Which means the point on the track where you 'click' a mile should change as you run more miles.  If you are on an older track that is 440 yards, then your Garmin is coming up more accurate.  (Of course, you shouldn't need a Garmin to tell you how far you have gone on a track anyway.  )

2011-08-01 12:58 PM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...

I'll urge you to go check out DCRainmaker's blog (just google search the name, it'll be the first hit).  He has done MANY tests with upwards of 10 GPS devises on a distance measuring wheel.  The accuracy is very dependant on speed, course, and line of sight with the sky.

2011-08-01 12:58 PM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...

I'll urge you to go check out DCRainmaker's blog (just google search the name, it'll be the first hit).  He has done MANY tests with upwards of 10 GPS devises on a distance measuring wheel.  The accuracy is very dependant on speed, course, and line of sight with the sky.

2011-08-01 1:24 PM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...
Kind of along the same lines.. I've been wondering what is more accurate when it comes to elevation data, Garmin or sites like mapmyride/mapmyrun?  I wear a Garmin 405 when I ride my bike, and if I map a route on either of the above sites, the total elevation change it gives me s half of what Garmin shows.

Edited by runlikeagrrl 2011-08-01 1:25 PM
2011-08-01 8:38 PM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...

I would say the garmin. I have used runkeeper on my iPhone and I now have a garmin 305. The garmin definitely  samples more, so as others have mentioned, the iphone cuts corners more.

 My iPhone would sometimes throw a point a couple hundred feet off the path and artificially bump up the distance but this seems to have improved with software updates.

One advantage to the smartphone is it can find the gps signal quicker by using the cell phone towers to get close before 'looking' for the satellites.



2011-08-02 8:18 AM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...

I know that on my Garmin 205 I discovered online a couple years ago that it has two settings for how often it takes a distance/pace reading. The default, I believe, was every 5 seconds. I had to manually choose every 1 second. I read something about it stores less data that way, but I haven't run into any problems yet. I guess I don't run enough. Laughing

 

In regards to a cell phone tracking a run, do you guys know if the running APPs use the cell phone base transceiver stations (likely) or satellites? I can't imagine a phone being tracking that minutely. Unless Steve Jobs is after you.



Edited by TRI-ing soldier 2011-08-02 8:18 AM
2011-08-02 8:37 AM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...
runlikeagrrl - 2011-08-01 2:24 PM

Kind of along the same lines.. I've been wondering what is more accurate when it comes to elevation data, Garmin or sites like mapmyride/mapmyrun?  I wear a Garmin 405 when I ride my bike, and if I map a route on either of the above sites, the total elevation change it gives me s half of what Garmin shows.


I would go with the sites, as they tend to get their elevation data from the mapping services, which actually conduct surveys of the terrain. The GPS elevation numbers are notoriously inaccurate.
2011-08-02 8:38 AM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...
TRI-ing soldier - 2011-08-02 9:18 AM

In regards to a cell phone tracking a run, do you guys know if the running APPs use the cell phone base transceiver stations (likely) or satellites? I can't imagine a phone being tracking that minutely. Unless Steve Jobs is after you.



Depends on the phone and the app, but I'm willing to bet that many apps are more likely to use GPS than tower triangulation.
2011-08-02 11:19 AM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...

Garmin antennas are made (shape, sensitivity, density) specifically for accuracy.  Phone GPS antennas are made specifically to fit into a phones form factor.  Phone GPS is to get general GPS, but it is less likely to be within 2.5meters that Garmin specifies when you are moving the antenna around.

Garmin is more accurate based on the antenna shape and sensitivity.

I have a friend who has endomondo and he says it sucks and he's ditched it for a garmin.  Look at this log and you'll see why:  notice how not once do his laps actually repeat each other, nor are they ever truly on the trail...but that 54mph sure looks sweet!

http://www.endomondo.com/workouts/vXiuXJCfiEg

To clear a few myths: 

1)  GPS is not line of sight.  It is RF which can travel through many different materials.  Dense material such as concrete and rock will inhibit signal (In cities or deep valleys), however lighter material such as wood should not greatly decrease the signal quality

2) GPS units talk to satellites 1000's of times a second and are constantly calculating the time deltas.  GPS Chipsets can be configured to "Output" the results at different intervals (1 second, 5 seconds,etc).  Better GPS chipsets can output position data 10 times a second. http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8975

 

 

 

 



Edited by lifejustice 2011-08-02 11:23 AM
2011-08-03 10:32 PM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...

nice tests! Thanks for posting the results.

I've been trying to decide if I should move from my iphone 4 and runkeeper to a garmin watch.

I do disable the wifi anytime I use runkeeper, hopefully that helps, especially on your walking results, but riding and running look pretty good.



2011-08-03 10:37 PM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...
I use endomondo as a tool to help me with how fast I am going or how fast I just covered the last mile. It is always short on mileage. It can not tell height well eather. one climb I do it tells me I went up 500 feet when it is about 1500 feet.in other words dont trust it. You can use it to race against your self. that is nice.
2011-08-04 11:37 AM
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Subject: RE: GPS Accuracy - Garmin vs Smartphone...
I have been using CardioTrainer with my Android smartphone for over a year.  It uses real GPS (not just cell towers) and samples every 1 second.  I've never had it track me through homes/yards or whatever, always on the roads and paths I run/bike.  The only times it has failed me were on days with lots of storm clouds and it just couldn't get a good GPS signal (this has happened twice in over 100 workouts).  Periodically I have used Google Earth and mapmyrun to verify distances.  It has always been within 0 to 4 hundredths of a mile.  No way am I going to waste my money on another device that can do the same thing.
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