General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Hip pain after runs...from doing squats? Rss Feed  
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2011-09-30 7:52 AM

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2011-09-30 8:21 AM
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Subject: RE: Hip pain after runs...from doing squats?
The stiffness is normal as you are probably developing a lot of muscles you never had before.  If the pain last too long something is wrong.  For such a simple movement there are a lot of complexities.  My single weight lifting injury was a result of squats and it was from going too deep.  I sought the assistance of a sports medicine doctor and with his and a professional power lifting coach I developed my squating technique which has gotten eye rolls at that gym.  But you know what, those rolling their eyes probably got their technique from a Muscle and Fitness mag.  They are doing much less weight than me and have smaller quads than I do, so who really cares what they think.  The big guys never give me grief and I haven't had an injury since.  My technique is to use a bar WITHOUT A PAD, placed as low on your upper back as you can get it.  This will then take some of the leverage off the lower back and hips so you can properly keep your chest/pecs over your knees.  That's right the chest and knees should be moving forward together.  If you had a plumb hanging from you chest it should be hanging between your knees.  Legs should always be at least shoulder width apart.  Head should remain straight up to keep the spine tight.  But the key thing I learned is that one does not have to go deep with squats.  For workout purposes, the goal should be to do as much weight as you are comfortable with going do a parallel position with you thigh give or take a little.  This is wear the most debat occurs, and you might get a little of that here.  Parallel by my definition which was taught to me by the coach and the doctor is the top of the knee being 0 degrees to where the femur meets the hip (the middle of you but from the side).  Some argue it means the top of the quad is flat.  This doesn't account for the fact that quads develop differently and the make up of peoples legs are different.  In some this may be true, while in others it might result in a deeper squat.  Usually within tolerance, but still deeper than necessary.  Others argue the hamstrings being flat parallel is "parallel", but this risk not going deep enough in some.  Any of the above should keep you within a safety zone while providing a good workout assuming you are using a decent amount of weight.  The key thing to remember is that squats are a compound exercise used to build strength and/or mass.  The toning and aesthetic development comes from your hack squats, leg extensions and curls.

Edited by Theforge 2011-09-30 8:23 AM
2011-09-30 9:18 AM
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2011-09-30 10:37 AM
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Subject: RE: Hip pain after runs...from doing squats?

Believe it or not, I do not stretch before lifting.  This was advice given to me by my doctor and the power lifting instructor.  Most powerlifters and olympic lifters I have known do not (and I know a lot).  The theory behind that which has been supported and debated is that lifting should always be done in a comfortable range of motion.  So the warmup sets alone will get you loose enough.  Also tighter muscles are less likely to cause off plane movement much like a brace or weight lifting belt.   So what I do is a couple of very light warmup sets first than a super heavy set on my heavy days.  Than on the light days keep the rep range at 10 - 8.  I always stretch afterwards, but could do a better job of stretching between sets.  My routine is a little more advanced.  But the I believe the theory is sound based on my research and experience.  Once again I will mention I have only had one injury when that happened I always stretched pre workout.  But in your case I would recommend a light weight warmup set or to doing 10 - 12 reps.  Then add on the heavy weight.  Then if you want to finish with a burnout, that should be good to. 

I will state right now, I always streatch before runs, biking, swiming, and when I boxed.



Edited by Theforge 2011-09-30 10:40 AM
2011-09-30 10:49 AM
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Subject: RE: Hip pain after runs...from doing squats?

Like I said the concept of pre-workout stretching is controversial.  Back when I stopped doing pre-workout stretches, it was an alien concept. In fact, now this concepts seems to be pretty mainstream based on my reviews of different materials I have linked here.  But remember, you still need to warm up.

http://www.buildingmuscle.org/2008/07/16/stretching-before-lifting-weights/

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/351774/why_do_i_need_to_stretch_before_working.html

http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Blog/tabid/130/EntryId/245/Tip-36-Why-you-should-never-do-static-stretching-before-lifting-weights.aspx

http://www.scoobysworkshop.com/stretching.htm

 

2011-09-30 10:50 AM
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2011-09-30 10:50 AM
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2011-09-30 11:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Hip pain after runs...from doing squats?
The reality of it is, no two people are the same, yet they try to make a science out of everything when it comes to sports performance.  If it were that simple we would all be hitting homeruns, or certain groups would be guaranteed athletic champions.  But that is not the case.  For instance, my legs are a little shorter than somebody normally my height.  This makes squating 500 and deadlifting 450 easier for me.  However, my bench press is only 325, 335 on a good day.  Those short legs also limit my running potential.  Not to say that I couldn't be the fastest runner, but somebody with long legs and a lighter frame doesn't have to try as hard.  Either way our techniques would be different.  Same goes for lifting, Triathlon, or boxing.  You have to look at each individual.  Unfortunately this is somethign that most personal trainers (not the good ones) fail to do.  Usually because they were taught a cookie cutter approach that they try to apply to all individuals.  I'm more of a trial and error guy myself. 
2011-09-30 11:06 AM
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Edited by Sharyn5 2011-09-30 11:11 AM
2011-09-30 11:11 AM
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Subject: RE: Hip pain after runs...from doing squats?

I stopped getting in ring while in grad school.  But I continue to train.  In fact I was the local USA Boxing representative and a certified trainer and official, I just did not renew it.  I took a break this summer while training for my first triathlon and have continued this break until the end of October after my next one.  I'll start up again during the winter.  Believe me I tried to do lifting, boxing and Tri training, but that sounded to me like a quick recipe for burnout.

I might add that as far as being a trainer went, I specialized in assisting coaches with strength training their boxers.  Many coaches have the old school mentality that boxing and weights are not compatible.  I have proven time and time again that this is not the case.  However, it has to be tailored to a boxer.  That is how my current liftin routine evolved.  I have found power and olympic lifting are 100% compatible with boxing with minimal if any loss in speed.



Edited by Theforge 2011-09-30 11:14 AM
2011-09-30 11:45 AM
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Subject: RE: Hip pain after runs...from doing squats?
I squat and do not get hip pain post run.  Ironically one of the reasons I lift is to ensure I don't get hip pain but that is a different story.  I never stretch before workouts.  I do warm up though with light cardio or light weights.  But I do stretch post lifting, and specifically my hips. 


2011-09-30 12:35 PM
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2011-09-30 12:44 PM
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2011-09-30 1:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Hip pain after runs...from doing squats?

I say keep an eye on the pain.  If it persists it may be a muscle imbalance.  Honestly most issues are.  More than likely the load you are now putting your problem area under is just too much with the addition of squatting.  I say problem area because the issue is normally one joint up or down from the pain. 

As far as stretching being controversial…. Well you have to really look at what kind of stretching you are talking about.  Dynamic stretching is fine.  This can be accomplished by a light jog or 10 minutes on the elliptical or just proper use of warm up sets prior to working sets on leg day in the gym.  Static stretching pre workout is a no no in my opinion.  I’ve read multiple texts that liken your muscles to rubber bands in the fact that they become more brittle and prone to tearing in a “stretched” state.

2011-09-30 2:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Hip pain after runs...from doing squats?
Couple hints.

1.) Use a Smith machine. Won't give your core the same workout as a barbell squat but it will give you more stability, allow you to get deeper and use a much wider stance - using a wider stance should target your glute muscles first then hip (psoas, p.formas) second.

2.) Yoga - warrior pose and similar lunge like poses will do wonders for that area if added into your routine twice a week.
2011-09-30 2:07 PM
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2011-09-30 2:11 PM
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2011-10-06 7:22 AM
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2011-10-06 10:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Hip pain after runs...from doing squats?
Those hip adductor/abductor machines do not allow our bodies to move in the way our bodies are designed to move... I would say this is valid for most "machines" in the gym. Glad you found the root cause of your issue!

Edited by Boosted333 2011-10-06 10:11 AM
2011-10-07 7:34 AM
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2011-10-07 7:46 AM
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Subject: RE: Hip pain after runs...from doing squats?
I would do yoga as suggested previously, and also get checked for muscular imbalance. Both will be beneficial even if they don't get to the root cause of your problem.


2011-10-07 7:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Hip pain after runs...from doing squats?
Sharyn5 - 2011-09-30 9:06 AM

yes, deads are ''easier'' (for lack of a better word, they are not 'easy' but easier than other lifts in my opinion) for someone shorter, than a tall person. i am 5'4''...so i know this. lol

i deadlift about 185, and want to be at 225 by end of year. we'll see. my nails are long, and i'm in the process of getting them cut off (i used to get them done ) and long nails really cause my grip to slip when i pull heavier. sounds stupid i know, but tis true. so have stalled at 185 for now.

do u still box?

and i'm somewhat of a trial/error person myself.

Are you using lifting straps for the deads?  They will fix the bar slipping and greatly reduce stress on the fingers. 

 



Edited by Muay_Tri 2011-10-07 7:07 PM
2011-10-10 5:14 PM
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2011-10-11 12:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Hip pain after runs...from doing squats?
I used straps for years in my Bodybuilding days, but then I had to make up for the wrist weakness through other means.  In my opinion, if you are doing a power movement like dead lifts or shrugs with the goal of building strength, you should be doing it unassisted most of the time.  If you want to see how much you can do with straps, by all means.  The most I have deadlifted without straps is 465, but I can do 505 with them.  To me the additional 40 lbs isn't worth the lost opportunity to strengthen the grip and forearms.  The amazing thing about your forearms/grip is they will catch up fast if you let them, but they can quickly become underdeveloped if you don't and that will become an issue down the road if building strength is your ultimate goal.  I have the same opinion regarding weighting shirts and suits.  But if you are using those you probably aren't running triathlons.

Edited by Theforge 2011-10-11 12:20 PM
2011-10-11 1:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Hip pain after runs...from doing squats?

Haha.  My straps are somewhere in the bottom of my bag.  Lift raw or with chalk.  I really see no reason for the vast majority of triathelets to be lifting that heavy. 

Also Sharyn I think Glucosomine & Chondroitin (sp?) has a cumulative effect.  It will take roughly a month before you build up enough in your system to have a noticeable effect.  You may want to look at Cissus if you want immediate results.

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