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Base building & higher intensity
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 2005-10-12 11:25 PM |
Champion  19812     MA |  Subject: Base building & higher intensityAdventure Bear had a great thread about aerobic threshold. I asked a follow up question, that I either did not get an answer to or I minsunderstood an answer and I know others wondered about as well. During this time where I am working on building my base....one goal for me is to improve my fat burning ability. To do this I need to go long and slow. Does it have to be all workouts? Does doing faster work interfer with improving fat burning? Obviously faster work doesn't improve fat burning. Another way of asking is, with building a base, does higher zone work disrupt building your base? Why I ask is that I play soccer once or twice a week and I run hard, will this hurt my base building and hurt changing my fuel mix so I burn more fat (which I want to do to help lose weight)? |
| 2005-10-13 12:46 AM in reply to: #264427 |
Member 176 | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity The higher speed work will not hurt your base training. Your base training will not progress as rapidly if say you are doing 2 base days per week and one speed day as opposed to 3 base days. One of the big reasons we do base work other than the obvious to build a strong base to develop your season around is to prevent overuse injury. Speed work all year long is hard on your body. PERIODIZATION is the key. Prep phase Base phase Biuld/Speed Phase Race/Peak Phase Rest/Recovery Phase |
| 2005-10-13 3:18 AM in reply to: #264427 |
Veteran 204 Gif-sur-Yvette | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity To answer Kathy I would say that playing soccer will not hurt your base building. In a way it may even help it because you are not constantly running full speed. You do very short sprints (to get the ball, tackle, dribble) and short slower runs to position in the field. As part of base buiding nobody tells you not to run fast. What one says is to keep putting in those miles and time at low intensities, and if you add some soft intervalls or fartlek you will also be increasing your aerobic base. Speed work is different, and is certainly a lot more consistent and continued than what you do in soccer. It is also obvious that while cross-training is beneficial, playing soccer is not going to improve tremendously your marathon times. On what concerns fat burniong, it will continue to contribute to that. |
| 2005-10-13 4:49 AM in reply to: #264427 |
Veteran 249 Northeast | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity Great question! You can totally add in some higher intensity work during base-building. What you really want to try and stay away from is high intensity, specific training (i.e., track workouts, bike ap intervals, etc.) But cross training at higher intensities while the rest of your training is focused on aerobic base is completely beneficial. If you're really focused on gaining base volume and increasing your fat-burning capability, then you should keep the high intensity work to a day a week, assuming you're doing base in at least 3 other sessions per week. Good luck! |
| 2005-10-13 9:11 AM in reply to: #264427 |
Elite Veteran 831 Northern Va/Metro D.C. | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity Agree with the above posters. Mike Ricci also has a great piece of advice-getting in a 5k or high intensity workout/race per month, ensuring the body doesn't forget the race-pace feeling. |
| 2005-10-13 9:54 AM in reply to: #264551 |
| , Texas | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity According to Dr. Phillip Maffetone, any anerobic activity during base building should be avoided: Building a good aerobic base means training only aerobically. During the base period, no anaerobic workouts (including racing) should be incorporated. Anaerobic activity will jeopardize the efficient development of your aerobic base, so every workout is aerobic. That includes your long run on Sunday, your hilly runs in the park, and any other workouts where you're heavily influenced by other athletes or the terrain. The above quote was from http://www.rrca.org/publicat/slowdown.htmlwhich goes into more detail on the subject. I am not qualified to argue against or defend his points, but figured I'd throw it out there. |
| 2005-10-13 10:37 AM in reply to: #264591 |
Veteran 291 Seattle, WA | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity Boy, I was really thinking about this issue today in Spin class, which I just started. My first spin class, on Tuesday, the instructor pretty much relied on people to adjust their own pace/intensity. The instructor today had us out of the saddle many times for what seemed like *forever*. Great workout, but I feel like right now I should be in base-building mode. I don't yet have a heart rate monitor, but my perceived exertion was very high. And I was thinking: is this goofing up by base development? - Heidi |
| 2005-10-13 10:43 AM in reply to: #264427 |
Champion 5183 Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity I would think part of the problem is that the higher the intensity, the longer you need to recover? So if you have a set periof of time during which you aim to build mileage or time exerting, you are wasting some of it by needing more recovery to stay healthy? dunno, not very scientific... |
| 2005-10-13 10:49 AM in reply to: #264427 |
Extreme Veteran 371 Montreal | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity So I guess that in base building mode, it means we should stick to Z1-Z4, right under LT? |
| 2005-10-13 12:21 PM in reply to: #264639 |
Expert 1213 Los Gatos, CA | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity p4406 - 2005-10-13 8:49 AM So I guess that in base building mode, it means we should stick to Z1-Z4, right under LT? Review the aerobic threshold thread....the consensus from the coaches is to train in Z1-Z2 for aerobic base building. |
| 2005-10-13 12:32 PM in reply to: #264427 |
Extreme Veteran 371 Montreal | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity I know I should stick in Z1 and Z2 and try and stay out of Z3. But if I do some intervals in Z4, which is right under LT, is it OK. |
| 2005-10-13 12:36 PM in reply to: #264627 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity possum - 2005-10-13 10:43 AM I would think part of the problem is that the higher the intensity, the longer you need to recover? So if you have a set periof of time during which you aim to build mileage or time exerting, you are wasting some of it by needing more recovery to stay healthy? dunno, not very scientific... THis is what I have gleaned as well from all my reading over the past month (while I shoudl be studying for my medical board exams...do you really know what your doctor's do when they should b estudying medicine???) Anyway, yes, high intensity = longer recovery & longer refeuling of glycogen stores = delay of the next workout. I think. Then again, my sherpa analogy was all wrong too. Suzanne |
| 2005-10-13 12:46 PM in reply to: #264427 |
Veteran 321 Findlay OH | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity everyone else has given good scientific explanations and all, but here is another point. If you really enjoy playing socer then play. It is great exercise and fun. Cross training helps our bodies and our minds from getting stale and then potentially injured. Schedule your other run workoputs around the soccer games so you can recover and play. I agree we should be scientific in our training plans and build a good base on all the other comments, but above all this should be a lifestyle choice. If training isn't fun it is much harder to stick to. |
| 2005-10-13 1:12 PM in reply to: #264427 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity PErhaps Kathy's real question should be HOW to best improve her base building since she WILL be playing soccer once a week. SOunds like the answer is to keep the remainder of your base in Z1/2. |
| 2005-10-13 1:37 PM in reply to: #264427 |
Extreme Veteran 370 Mesa AZ | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity Related question (which will betray my lack of knowledge about base building...) Per Mike's HR thread your zones are calculated off your LT which is different for bike and run (usually by 8-10bpm). If that is the case do I have to seperately build my base on BOTH or can building a base doing a lot of running that stays within both z1-2 ranges (ie the overlap) pay off for both sports? |
| 2005-10-13 1:38 PM in reply to: #264733 |
Veteran 267 Washington DC | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity Lots of good replies here. The high intensity workouts will only hurt your fat-burning efforts by limiting the volume. If you do X hours per week easy, ging hard will not detract from that at all unless it makes you too tired to do X hours. Also, if bodyfat reduction is a goal, the high intensity workouts will increase resting metabolic rate by increasing the number of muscle mitochonria ... and you will see a spike of post-workout fat burning probably due to a release of HGH, which triggers huge increases in fat burning. This is a particular area of interest for me, since my wife and I lost a combined 160 pounds. I am working on a book called An Athlete's Guide to Losing the Last Ten Pounds. Different workouts all have different positive benefits. Going easy when you aneed to go easy is really important, but it doesn't mean that going hard is bad. Ken |
| 2005-10-13 2:01 PM in reply to: #264708 |
Champion 5183 Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity AdventureBear - 2005-10-13 11:36 AM THis is what I have gleaned as well from all my reading over the past month (while I shoudl be studying for my medical board exams...do you really know what your doctor's do when they should b estudying medicine???) Suzanne Yup, I do know, I am afraid. I live with one. And while she should be pouring over slides and photos to study the nuances of various cancers, she grabs the Sunday paper, pulls out the weekly sale fliers and reads them first, then the Parade section, and recylces the rest. We are all going to die. Better workout more and eat right, bc the doctors are all insane!!!  |
| 2005-10-13 2:07 PM in reply to: #264427 |
Master 2136 A Prairie Home | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity I have seen many posts here referencing Z1, Z2 etc. What are those? Curious mind wants to know. Thanks. |
| 2005-10-13 2:28 PM in reply to: #264782 |
Veteran 249 Northeast | Subject: RE: Base building & higher intensity Denise2003 - 2005-10-13 2:07 PM I have seen many posts here referencing Z1, Z2 etc. What are those? Curious mind wants to know. Thanks. Denise, Z1, Z2, etc. refer to the heart rate training zones people are using. The actual values are different for everybody, but can be commonly expressed as percentages of HR at Lactate Threshold, HRLT, and/or as percentages of maximum heart rate, HRMax. Some coaches break your training zones into 3 zones (easy, medium and hard), some break them down into as many as 7 or 10. Regardless of zones, there are two primary regimes you'll be training in: aerobic and anaerobic (yes, following a 3-zone model, the "middle" zone is the grey area between aerobic and anaerobic regime). Basically the low zones correspond to aerobic training (creating energy by a process which utilizies oxygen) and higher zones anaerobic (creating energy by means without oxygen). Different physiological events occur, depending on what "zone" you're training in, and for how long. Dedicating different parts of the year to focus on training primarilly (notice: I did not say "exclusively") in those zones is part of what's referred to as a periodization approach. Hang on... it gets a lot more crazy from here on out ;-) |
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