General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Interesting IM article Rss Feed  
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2005-12-08 8:06 AM

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Subject: Interesting IM article

I saw this article at ST and I think it is pretty interesting. http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/opinion/70.3.html

BTers are doing more and more IM races each year. What do you guys think?



2005-12-08 8:21 AM
in reply to: #301615

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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article

Someday I want to run the Boston Marathon.  If they move all the qualifing spots to 5K races I will never make it in.  Why?  I'm not fast, I can run long and steady I just can not run short and fast.  If you could only get into Boston at a 5K you would see alot of people walking at the end.

Moving the IM Kona spots to a 1/2IM would do the same thing.  You are going to end up with a bunch of people that can smoke the first half of the race but then suffer and put their health at risk for the second half. 

2005-12-08 8:23 AM
in reply to: #301615

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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article
Half-Ironman events, or 70.3 events if you wish, should qualify people for Kona. I should think the health and lifestyle benefits would be self-evident, so I’ll simply outline why this benefits WTC's bottom line.

The most obvious impact of making 70.3 events Kona qualifiers will be the instaneous boost for WTC’s 70.3 series, and not at the expense of the full Ironman distance events.


But the 70.3 events already ARE Kona qualifiers, and more than likely the ones that (the people who can go faster) have the best chances of making it to Kona with.

I guess what he is saying is to make ONLY the HIM qualifiers to preserve the participant's bodies?? Not sure if I agree with that one necessarily. Some AG participants want to train and race at that distance, not the HIM distance, so would want to do two or three IM's a year.

It is really up to the competitor to dictate what they can handle. If they overtrain, they will get injured. Because of the amount and availability of the 70.3 series (and the fact they don't sell out in a day usually), there are opportunities to qualify without having to make sure you are awake and have funds available for the three hour period that it will fill up on the Sunday after an IM to sign up for one in hopes of qualifying for Kona.

Just my opinion.
2005-12-08 8:32 AM
in reply to: #301615

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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article

That’s how they use to do it years ago... You would qualify at Olys or HIM for Kona... I am not sure what’s my position about this article but I do know that for us AGers it might be tough to do more than IM a year (note - I never done one before) Think about qualifying at Canada or LP and then racing a few months later at Kona… again I never done one so I don’t know, but I know after doing a marathon my body doesn’t recover for like a month or more…

2005-12-08 8:39 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article
I think everyone is different in that respect. Depending on health, genetics, nutrition and training approach some recover much faster than others and can get back into the groove of training again quickly.

But that goes back to what I said earlier where the ownous is really on the participant to know their abilities.

I can see where someone is one or two spots out of getting their qualfying spot and being frustrated enough to think they can do another one and get it. But for the vast majority of participants it is more about the journey and the accompishment than the qualifying slot. How many people are really at the level where they can earn the spot with how competitive it is currently?

Edited by Daremo 2005-12-08 8:44 AM
2005-12-08 8:43 AM
in reply to: #301615

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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article

I totally disagree with this article. I know several people who can smoke a HIM but have no desire to go longer and finish a full. The HIM distance also is still short enough to "race" for the athlete who has a decent amount of time to train, whereas a Full IM is a race of attrition for the average age grouper. The difference between HIM and IM racing is much more than just doubling the distance.

Another point, most of us will never qualify for Kona, and if we do the odds of doing it year in and year out are small. If you are the caliber of athlete that is able to qualify year after year then (theoretically) you have the capacity to train AND RECOVER faster and better than we mere mortals. From a personal standpoint, if I am ever fortunate enough to qualify for the Big Kahuna at an IM then I could really care less if I do anything but finish in Kona, and I think that most age groupers would agree.

Just my opinion...........



2005-12-08 8:43 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article

Daremo - 2005-12-08 5:39 AM How many people are really at the level where they can earn the spot with how competitive it is currently?

About 1800 to 2000

2005-12-08 8:51 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article

But the 70.3 events already ARE Kona qualifiers

Actually, only a few 70.3s have Kona slots.  And there is some speculation that those will be gone after 2006.  WTC seems to be moving the other direction with Kona qualification.

But I think the point is not that people couldn't choose to do multiple IMs, but those qualifying for Kona would not be required to do so.  Doing IMs is not necessarily healthy for most, especially if repeated frequently.  Recovery takes a lot longer than for a HIM from all I've learned (never done IM), it's not 2:1.

To qualify in an IM, you're going to have to be pretty competitive at the HIM distance, so I don't think this is analagous to a 5k/Boston Q.  And with Boston, I believe that you have the ability to defer your entry until the following year (qualify now, race in 2007 not 2006).  Maybe this is another option for Kona, especially for the later qualifiers like Canada and LP.

I think the idea has some merit.  They could at least move part-way and move more slots to the 70.3 series.  This might actually serve to free up some full slots for those that just want to participate in the IM events too.

Still, I doubt it happens.

2005-12-08 9:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article
Rocket Man - 2005-12-08 8:43 AM

II know several people who can smoke a HIM but have no desire to go longer and finish a full.

Nobody says they have to take the slot.

Another point, most of us will never qualify for Kona, and if we do the odds of doing it year in and year out are small. If you are the caliber of athlete that is able to qualify year after year then (theoretically) you have the capacity to train AND RECOVER faster and better than we mere mortals. From a personal standpoint, if I am ever fortunate enough to qualify for the Big Kahuna at an IM then I could really care less if I do anything but finish in Kona, and I think that most age groupers would agree.

"Just finishing" an IM is still going to take quite a bit out of you.  The author of the article based his opinions on friends & family he knows who have attributed health issues to multiple IMs done in a year.  It's valid to question whether WTC should require this for AGers who would like to race at Kona.

2005-12-08 10:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article

I think there is value in a having a field of competitors at Kona, the most elite event in triathlon, that you know can go the distance, and commit to the training to do so.  The author's main point is that two IMs in one year is too taxing for many. Putting aside his admission that this is mere opinion based on no scientific findings whatsoever, I would argue against putting all or most Kona slots into half IM qualififers.  If health is a concern, then simply make it a requirement for Kona slot winners to show they have done a prior IM in the past two or even three years.  Also, the author almost salivates at the prospect of WTC being able to increase its licensing revenues  

"Imagine what WTC could charge IMNA for the right to stage these events? Imagine what it might be able to charge the promoters of Timberman, Steelman, and the like, for Kona slots?"  

I can imagine. I see the future and it isn't cheap.

 

2005-12-08 10:17 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article
Ken - 2005-12-08 10:05 AM

I think there is value in a having a field of competitors at Kona, the most elite event in triathlon, that you know can go the distance, and commit to the training to do so.  The author's main point is that two IMs in one year is too taxing for many. Putting aside his admission that this is mere opinion based on no scientific findings whatsoever, I would argue against putting all or most Kona slots into half IM qualififers.  If health is a concern, then simply make it a requirement for Kona slot winners to show they have done a prior IM in the past two or even three years. 

Not sure what your suggestion is here.  If you qualify for and go to Kona now (except for the handful of 70.3 slots), you have just done an IM and have another scheduled in 13 months or less (mostly less).  Proving that you have done an IM prior to this serves what purpose?

Also, the author almost salivates at the prospect of WTC being able to increase its licensing revenues  

"Imagine what WTC could charge IMNA for the right to stage these events? Imagine what it might be able to charge the promoters of Timberman, Steelman, and the like, for Kona slots?"  I can imagine. I see the future and it isn't cheap.

But there a lot more HIM options outside the 70.3 races (unlike IM distance).  I don't think that WTC would be able to "take over" the HIM distance the way they have with IM.  If you wanted to try to qualify, you would end up paying more (but almost certainly MUCH less all-in than you have to now with IMs).  If not, you could look to other races (or you might decide the "quality" of the 70.3s was high enough to justify an increased fee--many of the 70.3s are already at the higher end of HIM costs).

BTW, I think the author was trying to look at a possible incentive for WTC to make a move that he approves of--not salivating over their ability to do it.



2005-12-08 10:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article
JohnnyKay - 2005-12-08 10:17 AM
Ken - 2005-12-08 10:05 AM

I think there is value in a having a field of competitors at Kona, the most elite event in triathlon, that you know can go the distance, and commit to the training to do so.  The author's main point is that two IMs in one year is too taxing for many. Putting aside his admission that this is mere opinion based on no scientific findings whatsoever, I would argue against putting all or most Kona slots into half IM qualififers.  If health is a concern, then simply make it a requirement for Kona slot winners to show they have done a prior IM in the past two or even three years. 

Not sure what your suggestion is here.  If you qualify for and go to Kona now (except for the handful of 70.3 slots), you have just done an IM and have another scheduled in 13 months or less (mostly less).  Proving that you have done an IM prior to this serves what purpose?

DOH! Disregared my nonsensical raving.

Also, the author almost salivates at the prospect of WTC being able to increase its licensing revenues  

"Imagine what WTC could charge IMNA for the right to stage these events? Imagine what it might be able to charge the promoters of Timberman, Steelman, and the like, for Kona slots?"  I can imagine. I see the future and it isn't cheap.

But there a lot more HIM options outside the 70.3 races (unlike IM distance).  I don't think that WTC would be able to "take over" the HIM distance the way they have with IM.  If you wanted to try to qualify, you would end up paying more (but almost certainly MUCH less all-in than you have to now with IMs).  If not, you could look to other races (or you might decide the "quality" of the 70.3s was high enough to justify an increased fee--many of the 70.3s are already at the higher end of HIM costs).

Agree that the half IM qualifiers would be less than the full IM race qualifiers, but I think they would get pricier.  That means those who might ordinarily afford such a race, may be priced out.  At a minimum, cost would become a major factor, or more of a factor, much like IM qualifiers now.  And participants who have no intention of competing at Kona pay the same.  Well, a triathlete can always do non-trademark races, is the common resopnse to this.  But as IM licensed half IM race fees go up, so too will non IM trademark race fees go up.  The end result is that the sport becomes less accessible to the average joe.

BTW, I think the author was trying to look at a possible incentive for WTC to make a move that he approves of--not salivating over their ability to do it.

That was more of a joke, since he starts off saying he is captain, corporal, or private of industry.  But he is looking at this largely from the perspectives of business and health, and on the business side, not much thought is given to how it impacts the customer side of the sport.

2005-12-08 11:32 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article
Daremo - 2005-12-08 9:39 AM
I can see where someone is one or two spots out of getting their qualfying spot and being frustrated enough to think they can do another one and get it. But for the vast majority of participants it is more about the journey and the accompishment than the qualifying slot. How many people are really at the level where they can earn the spot with how competitive it is currently?


You are not looking at the right group of people. The author wants to protect those people who want to compete and are not satsified with the journey. It is these 2000 or so atheltes the auhtor wants to protect. Personally I think that what the author is saying will not accomplish anything. People will still do 2, 3, or even 4 IM's in a year becuase they want to. And I am willing to bet all his plan will accomplish is people doing the HIM to qualify, an IM to prepare for Kona, and Kona. That will have the effect of adding another race each year. Since those that make it to Kona are the top competitor they will surely want to have more experience running the full IM and I realy do not see them doning only 1 IM each year.
2005-12-08 11:46 AM
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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article

_BullDog_ - 2005-12-08 11:32 AM And I am willing to bet all his plan will accomplish is people doing the HIM to qualify, an IM to prepare for Kona, and Kona. That will have the effect of adding another race each year. Since those that make it to Kona are the top competitor they will surely want to have more experience running the full IM and I realy do not see them doning only 1 IM each year.

I do not think this will be true AT ALL.  In fact, even some of the top pros do not do 2 IM/yr.  I don't believe Reid, Beke or Widoff (all Top 5 at Kona) raced any other IMs in 2005.  And if you qualify at a 70.3 in May or June or July, are you really going to try to squeeze in an IM before October?  I know that I certainly wouldn't.  If my goal was to qualify in a given year, I might sign up for 2 or 3 70.3s where slots were available, but not an IM somwhere in there.

Edit: Some people will continue to do multiple IMs of course.  Freedom to choose and all.  But WTC wouldn't be requiring it from the majority of those who simply want to race at Kona in a given year.



Edited by JohnnyKay 2005-12-08 11:53 AM
2005-12-08 12:05 PM
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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article
JohnnyKay - 2005-12-08 11:46 AM

_BullDog_ - 2005-12-08 11:32 AM And I am willing to bet all his plan will accomplish is people doing the HIM to qualify, an IM to prepare for Kona, and Kona. That will have the effect of adding another race each year. Since those that make it to Kona are the top competitor they will surely want to have more experience running the full IM and I realy do not see them doning only 1 IM each year.

I do not think this will be true AT ALL.  In fact, even some of the top pros do not do 2 IM/yr.  I don't believe Reid, Beke or Widoff (all Top 5 at Kona) raced any other IMs in 2005.  And if you qualify at a 70.3 in May or June or July, are you really going to try to squeeze in an IM before October?  I know that I certainly wouldn't.  If my goal was to qualify in a given year, I might sign up for 2 or 3 70.3s where slots were available, but not an IM somwhere in there.

Edit: Some people will continue to do multiple IMs of course.  Freedom to choose and all.  But WTC wouldn't be requiring it from the majority of those who simply want to race at Kona in a given year.

very good point

2005-12-08 1:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article
Well all I know is that after I get my first few tris out of the way next summer I'll be coming to you guys for advice on how to go about qualifying for Kona cuz my @ss is goin'!  Woohoo!


2005-12-08 1:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article

hangloose - 2005-12-08 1:54 PM Well all I know is that after I get my first few tris out of the way next summer I'll be coming to you guys for advice on how to go about qualifying for Kona cuz my @ss is goin'!  Woohoo!

Now you are talking!

2005-12-08 2:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Interesting IM article

hangloose - 2005-12-08 1:54 PM Well all I know is that after I get my first few tris out of the way next summer I'll be coming to you guys for advice on how to go about qualifying for Kona cuz my @ss is goin'!  Woohoo!

My only advice is train hard and race fast! Smile

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