Pool times vs open water time

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2005-12-18 6:52 PM

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Champion
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Subject: Pool times vs open water time
I just got back from the pool where I swam 42 laps for 1.2 miles. I swam freestyle the entire time and it took me 51:45. I came home anxious to see where this would place me in the GCT HIM and was really disappointed to find out I would have been nearly dead last! Bummer! Oh well, I guess I have 5 months to get my time down.

Do anyone know how pool times relate to open water times? I swim in a 25 yrd pool so I stopped and changed directions 83 times and I don't do those fancy flit-turms. I know I will be more bouyant in the Gulf so that should help.

~mr

2005-12-18 7:33 PM
in reply to: #307857

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Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time
I gotta believe you're going to lose 10% or more speed in open water for several reasons. One: if it is at all rough it is going to slow your progress, and two: in the excitement of it all, your technique you have perfected in the nice clean, quiet pool is going to go to s**t. My only experience in this was vivid. I set a goal to swim the Thanksgiving 1 mile ocean swim in Honolulu years ago. I got where I could swim the mile in about 50 minutes in the base swimming pool (a nice 50 meter pool). On Thanksgiving I swam the ocean mile and finished, in 1:10! It was a killer. It just beats you up.
2005-12-18 7:52 PM
in reply to: #307857

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time
For me, my time increased about an average of 10 seconds per 100yd.  I assume it's because of the full wetsuit I was wearing and not having to stop and turn around every 25yds in a pool.  I agree it really depends on water condition and whether you having to swim around slower swimmers.
2005-12-19 9:51 AM
in reply to: #307857

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Giver
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Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time
It all depends. You'll actually swim faster with a wetsuit and in salt water. Not having walls may slow you, but if you're a relatively weak swimmer, you likely aren't efficient on the walls (no flip turns, poor streamlining). So you may not lose that much going from the pool to OW, and may even go faster because of the bouyancy form the salt water and the wetsuit.
2005-12-19 10:00 AM
in reply to: #307857


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Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time
I have had a totally different experience-my times are generally faster in the open water. For me, I think i get faster mainly b/c I wear a wetsuit in open water but not in the pool, I often can find "faster" swimmers to draft off of, it is a race, so I'm pushing slightly harder, I don't use flip turns in the pool so that slows me down, and I wear a slightly baggy swimsuit in the pool (not into the speedos though I'm going to buy jammers), which obviously slows me down in training.

Having said that, there are SO many factors (inlcuding those discussed by me and others) involved that I think it is nearly impossible to compare times. Not to mention the fact that I yet to swim an open water race that I felt was accurately measured. For example, one time I swam 1/3 mile in 19 minutes where I have also swam 1 mile in under 25 minutes!!!

2005-12-19 10:07 AM
in reply to: #307857

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time

Rogillio, it depends on the motion of the ocean. If the ocean is relatively calm and flat, you'll have a good swim. If there's alot of motion, you'll need a strong stroke and endurance to maintain your pool times.

p.s. I have a cousin named Rogilio

2005-12-19 11:04 AM
in reply to: #307857

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time

I've completed two OWS in lakes and one in the ocean. All 3 times were faster than my average pool time. Here's why I think: 1) it's a race, and I tend to push myself more in races, even if I don't mean too, 2) the straight swims (meaning no flip turns, etc.), 3) drafting off others to save a bit of energy.

Don't worry about it though, you've got a great start, just keep up the good work!

2005-12-19 1:33 PM
in reply to: #307857

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Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time
My 1000m TT in the pool is typically considerably faster compared to to my OW swimming with a wetsuit.  Granted a TT is more intense then a triathlon swim but even with a fudge factor it doesn't really compare.
2005-12-19 5:55 PM
in reply to: #307857

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time

No one has mentioned sighting and swimming in a straight line...which is nearly impossible to do in open water.

2005-12-19 6:01 PM
in reply to: #307857

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Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time
As others have said, all depends, sometimes the current is with you, sometimes it's agin' you..... Plus, splits are from the gun to the timing mat, which is invariably 100 - 400 yards up a sandy beach after getting out of the water. While my actual 100 yd. splits may be faster or slower, what's represented is skewed (splits in races last year went from 1:28 to 2:58, and those were both 2d or 3d in AG)
2005-12-19 6:10 PM
in reply to: #307857

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Expert
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Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time
The weaker swimmer you are, the more you benefit from a wet suit. I am also demonstrably faster in open water due to the wet suit.


2005-12-19 6:11 PM
in reply to: #307857

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St. Thomas, US Virgin Islands
Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time
I'm interested in the wetsuit/no wetsuit argument. I'll be swimming tropical waters in May (all my swims are tropical open water) but am considering using a shorty wetsuit as I though the bouyancy would help my times - I'm sure this must have been discussed ad nauseum, anyone have a link.
2005-12-19 6:34 PM
in reply to: #308423

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Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time
If it is a USAT event, isn't there a rule about water temperature having to be below 76 degrees, or thereabouts, before you are allowed to wear a wet suit?
2005-12-19 6:50 PM
in reply to: #307857

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time
under 78 is wetsuit legal, 78-82 you can wear a wetsuit but can't win awards, above 82 wetsuits are illegal...it's a safety thing so you don't overheat.
2005-12-20 6:13 AM
in reply to: #308411

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Giver
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Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time

I swim straight lines, even without sighting. I swam on a HIM relay in September, and a fog bank rolled in 5 minutes after the start. Visibility was less than 50 yards, and I swam dead straight, even without sighting.

If you can't swim straight, work on bilateral breathing to improve your stroke symmetry. 

 

Steve- - 2005-12-19 6:55 PM

No one has mentioned sighting and swimming in a straight line...which is nearly impossible to do in open water.

 

2005-12-20 7:06 AM
in reply to: #307857

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Queen BTich
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Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time

If I pay attention my sighting is usually great. If I daydream I might wander off a little but not too bad.

My OWS times are usually faster, except for the one race that had whitecaps in the lake so I would say other swimmers and the conditions are the limiting factors.

2005-12-20 7:11 AM
in reply to: #307857

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time
There are a few of other things that should also be considered:

1) Many swims are short
2) Even if you aren't doing flip-turns, you will probably be faster in the pool due to pushing off the wall
3) It's easier to push harder in a pool as you are never more than 25m away from safety (and that's a worst case scenario).

Shane
2005-12-20 1:00 PM
in reply to: #307857

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Subject: RE: Pool times vs open water time
I find that there are too many variables to figure out an open water time based on a pool swim. Take this example: For a 5 K open water race in Florida, my swim team had a 1000 yard freestyle time trial to figure out who was going to participate (only sending 4 men and 4 women). Of the women, the top 4 were within 5 seconds of each other. At the race, I did 1h 10 min, 2 girls went about 1 h 14 min and one girl (who happened to have the fastest 1000 time went 1h 27 min.
How did this happen? Here are my thoughts:
1. Experience in OWS -I had a lot more experience in swimming in open water races (have been doing them since I was 8). Specifically drafting expertise. You can use up to 50% less energy drafting in OWS (according to Sara McLarity (USA Tri National team) in Swimming World mag interview)
2. No flip turns/straight swimming
3. Ability to swim in a straight line. A lot of people are not good sighters and tend to tack or get off course. This is what happened to the 1h 27 min girl.
4. Conditions -a calm lake swim is totally different than swimming say the WAikiki rough water swim.
5. Also, open water distances are typically estimates they are often wither too short or too long.


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