tempo runs/speed training??

and your question is?

You are doing well, you are building base, it takes time for the body to adapt to the rigors of long distance running, years more so than months imo. Base is about endurance, this is an endurance sport. You need to have considerable base before you start into speed/tempo runs, e.g. much closer to racing season. I'd put another 3 months in at least, and continue to gradually build up your one weekly long run to considerable distance/time. Challenge yourself on distance/time, not speed. Stay in the target HR zone.

sorry jorge, I guess I wasn't too specific? What exactly are speed and tempo runs and how do I start to incorporate them after I build a sufficient base? When do I start? Is it a different way of running? a different plan? drills? etc.
Thanks

I don't know if this all holds true for tri's, but for marathon training, I do one tempo run a week in season and out of season. In season I push them longer, but I do at least one mile at tempo one day a week out of season.

I use a progression something like this:

1 mile warm up easy
2 miles @ gp (goal pace)
tempo part
1 mile easy

and I vary the tempo part as follows (all done at tempo pace):

weeks 1 & 2
1 mile
weeks 3 & 4
2 x 1 mile with 1 minute easy between
weeks 5 & 6
2 x 1.5 miles with 1.5 minutes easy between
weeks 7 & 8
2 x 2 miles with 2 minutes easy between
weeks 9 & forever
4 miles at tempo

As for how to find tempo pace, for me it's when I have to breath in a 2:1 pattern.

I hope that helps!


Edited by jujubetoo 2005-12-19 10:37 PM

Since we're on the subject... how much time/distance would be considered adequate before tempo/speed training is implemented into a training routine?

Well, I suggest a 20 mile a week base for at least 2 months.  And I think the length of the tempo run should probably be commensurate for the length one is training.  I would guess that for a 5k run max, maybe 1 mile would be the longest tempo necessary.  But then intervals would be more important anyway.

20 miles a week.... hmmm... that might be hard to meet since I only run twice a week on the average. My longest run so far was just a few days ago at 11.5 miles on a 10min/mile pace. The longest triathon I have scheduled for '06 is two Olys but I do have a marathon in Dec. I don't really see a reason to run further than this 11.5 mile route until I begin my marathon training in earnest. So, even if I make this 11.5 mile my weekly long run and then throw in maybe a 5 miler on my shorter day... I am no where close to 20 miles/week. Does that mean no tempo/speed work for me until I increase my weekly milage after my tri-season is over? Also, this is my first year of training so should I just stick to base for the entire year and then consider speed in '07?

Well, then maybe tempos won't work for you?  Try doing some speed intervals and some 100 meter strides (increase your pace just under a sprint for 10 seconds, hold that pace for 10 seconds and then decelerate for 10 seconds).

Then when you start working the marathon, add the tempos and some steady state runs.  I think for shorter distances, tempos may not be that helpful. 

Most of the literature would recommend that you hold off on the speed training until next season. However, there are lots of drills that you can look at adding that will help build speed such as drills and form work, accels, strides, etc.

Shane

Coming off my first season I found that tempo runs and rides were a huge benefit during some of my later base training (base 3) as it helped me to learn how to pace myself and have a better idea of the difference between hard and too hard.

I couldn't agree more.  If there's one work out for speed that I recommend it's tempo.  I ran my last marathon with a pulled hamstring and couldn't do any real speed work or hill work...but I tried to get at least a mile tempo in once a week. 

But I do think a good base of 20 miles/week before doing them is important.

may I ask why do you suggest this?

intervals = speed work, no longer than about 2000m at most (those being around 5k pace), usually a mile or less with repeats and recovery/breaks in between

tempo = sub LT/LT training, continuous time or mileage based at no more than 1/2 mary/15k pace with warm-up and cool down

(At least that is what the literature typically says to use as a reference.)

Check out this book for a good explanation of tempo and speed work .....

http://www.humankinetics.com/products/showproduct.cfm?isbn=07360343...

(props to the bear for this one, can't take credit for it )

If you don't improve your lactate threshhold, you can't run fast for very long.  It is speed training in endurance mode as far as I'm concerned.   The shorter distance intervals, strides and such help, but nothing seems to help more for picking up my pace for longer distances than a tempo run.  I run them 10 to 20 seconds faster than my goal pace.  I can tell you that it makes goal pace seem much easier in the long run (heh...literally).

Bear - those are not semantics at all - and I couldn't agree more. To me speed is defined as:
Going faster - and that means faster than 5k pace
Tempo is more like race pace or a little slower. Personally I prefer to run tempo slower as the recovey is much quicker AND there isn't that much of a gain by drilling yourself in a tempo (strength) run.

Speed = fast
Tempo - strength

This is a great discussion - but I have to disagree with some of the comments posted. First off - I don't know how much a tempo run would improve your VO2 - probably a tiny bit. Do we need to improve V02 as triathletes - probably not. Our main focus should be on technique (free speed at NO energy cost) and aerobic base (building a bigger and more efficient engine). Those two things will give you the biggest bang for your buck, hands down.

Now, there are many ways to improve your LT - you could run 40-60 to a 100 miles per week, and I would be willing to bet your LT would improve. quite a bit actually. Your economy would improve greatly as well. You could do miles of track work and you could improve your LT (only if you have the base miles to support the LT workout though) but it's painful, and there is a chance for injury as well.

I think tempo runs are important, and I have my athletes do them often. I also think that speed work as how I define it (100s, 200s at a better than 5k pace) is important and should be done 50 weeks a year. I think that running long is important too (wookie, you keep up your long runs!) and those three things are great when you are getting ready for a season.

I very hardly every go out there and just plod for 90 minutes. A 90 minute run may have 30' pick ups in there, or tempo style finish, or drills, or hills. I mix it up and work ALL of my energy systems.

If you just ended your triathlon season and you took 2 weeks off, do you need to run 20 weeks of base miles to get your aerobic fitness back? Of course not. You probably need a couple of weeks to ease into . Recently, I took a few MONTHS off - and in two weeks I ran close to 50 miles - according to everything written out there, I shouldn't do that, but guess what, my base is pretty deep, and I don't need to waste 12 weeks (never mind 20!) running at a low HR to get my 'base miles' in. Now if you are a beginner and you haven't run before, well, that's different. As a beginner your progression should be much more gradual.

But in order to run fast you need three things, and its not very complicated: you need endurance (long runs), you need strength (hills and hill repeats) and you need speed. Do you see me mention track work in there? Nope. Why? B/c track work is to polish you up, and get you ready to peak - and in my opinoin and in the opinion (as well as the opinion of the greatest coach to ever live Arthur Lydiard - if you don't know who he is, go look it up!) running up hill hard is the BEST workout you can do. Its track work disguised as hill work. If you want to run fast you need strength - and those words of wisdom are from Tudor Bompa (and if you don't know who that is, you better look that up too). I had the pleasure to hear Dr. Bompa talk two weeks ago - and it wasn't enlightening as much as it was clarification of the methods I use. It doens't mean there isn't lots to learn, b/c there is. But for the most part it comes down to those three things I mentioned: Endurance, Strength and Speed.

You can read HADD, or Daniels but its not that complicated - both men are very smart and I have met Jack once, but in reality at our level - it's those three things I mentioned above - and its getting it done day after day, week after week, year after year. Consistency and frequency - those are the the keys to being successful.

Like I said in my first post on this thread, maybe it's different for tri's. I am new at this, but for years, I've been reading articles like this one


http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,5033,s6-51-0-0-6141,00.html

That relates but what you have to remember is that you don't want to drill yourself when you have two other sports to train for, which is why i think running less then race pace is better than a 'bust your butt' tempo run - your recovery is quicker and you can move on to the next important workout 36 hours later.

Thank everyone, you have all given me a lot of insight...(and a longer reading list).

Special thanks to Mike - we are all so very lucky to have a person with your expertise willing to share with us.

Thanks - but I don't even think I answered your question! sorry. PM me or post here if you need help.