General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence? Rss Feed  
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2006-01-06 5:59 PM

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Subject: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?
Everything I read tells me that my cadence should be around 90 or higher.  But when I get there all it does is tire me out faster and drive my HR through the roof.  So why is a cadence of 90 such a magic number?


2006-01-06 6:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?

It's NOT a magic number, but a number in the range where most experienced cyclists achieve the highest efficiency. Typically the literature cites 85-95 rpm as the range. If it doesn't work for you don't use it, you're a human being and we're all different, you won't be cast aside as a non-conforming machine. Perhaps when you get to the point where you're riding more than 100 miles per month, you may find it to be a different story.

I have a cycling buddy, a little faster than me with more endurance as well. The other night we were cruising along at 22 mph; I was on my middle chainring, he was grinding on the big chainring and two cogs smaller than I, so you can imagine the difference in cadences. I guarantee you he could hold that speed on those gears longer than I could spinning where I was.

 



Edited by the bear 2006-01-06 6:38 PM
2006-01-06 8:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?
Dave Scott, 6 time Ironman Champion, states that 85-95 RPM cadence is the optimal spin for speed and to move lactic acid through your legs. He states that going to too big of a gear will tire you out too much for the run.
2006-01-06 8:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?
misanthropic777 - 2006-01-06 6:59 PM

Everything I read tells me that my cadence should be around 90 or higher.  But when I get there all it does is tire me out faster and drive my HR through the roof.  So why is a cadence of 90 such a magic number?


Great question to ask and I'll ask one more to add to it.

I see that there are different size cranks offered (155mm to 175mm) etc.
I bought my Trek 1500 and nevered even thought that they offered different
lengths. How does this affect performance. Do tri cyclists monkey with these
alot?

Tyler
2006-01-06 8:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?
Like the Bear said, I am more efficient when I ride at 92-97 RPM. It seems to really help me the most keeping my legs fresh before hills. Once on the hills though I just do whatever it takes to reach the top.

It takes some getting used to if you are used to riding at a lower cadence. When you first try to increase your cadence it will nock year HR up some. Work in a 2-3 Fast Pedal Drills (relatively low gear as fast as you can pedal without rocking your hips) on at least one ride per week.

Your body may just prefer to pedal at a low cadence and if thats the case, do what is the most efficient for you. I think I read somewhere about Floyd Landis deciding that he needed to increase his cadence and it took him 7-8 months before he was completely comfortable.
2006-01-06 10:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?

tydarby - 2006-01-06 7:18 PM
misanthropic777 - 2006-01-06 6:59 PM Everything I read tells me that my cadence should be around 90 or higher.  But when I get there all it does is tire me out faster and drive my HR through the roof.  So why is a cadence of 90 such a magic number?
Great question to ask and I'll ask one more to add to it. I see that there are different size cranks offered (155mm to 175mm) etc. I bought my Trek 1500 and nevered even thought that they offered different lengths. How does this affect performance. Do tri cyclists monkey with these alot? Tyler

Crank length is primarily based on your femur length (size matters...ha ha ha) but honestly, just use the length that came standard on your bike frame szie and you'll be fine.  It's only the VERY avid cyclists that can notice a difference in performance beween a 172.5 and 175. (I consider myself an above average volume cyclist and I can't even notice the difference when riding on 172.5 cranks vs 175 cranks).

Point to note, however....if you're experiencing knee pain on your bike and ruled out more obvious reasons (like old running shoes or too much volume running and not enough rest) then visit your crank length as longer lengths, while giving you more leverage, put more stress on the knee than do shorter lengths.



Edited by Steve- 2006-01-06 10:43 PM



2006-01-06 10:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?

misanthropic777 - 2006-01-06 4:59 PM Everything I read tells me that my cadence should be around 90 or higher.  But when I get there all it does is tire me out faster and drive my HR through the roof.  So why is a cadence of 90 such a magic number?

Another great reason 90rpm is beneficial esp. for triathletes is that it's great in helping your run turnover too...which incidentally is ideal at....

yep...you guessed it, 90 strides per minute!

Like the great Guiness commercials would say...BRILLIANT!!!

2006-01-07 1:39 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?
misanthropic777 - 2006-01-06 5:59 PM

Everything I read tells me that my cadence should be around 90 or higher. But when I get there all it does is tire me out faster and drive my HR through the roof. So why is a cadence of 90 such a magic number?


I didn't read all the responses... so forgive me if I repeat something here.

Cadence is very important, because it tells you what gear you should be in.

For example, if you are running 70 cadence, you are probably muscling through and mashing the pedals. This is not a good use of your energy... and might result in knee pain in the future.

Now, if you run 80-100 cadence... you are probably spinning... going fast... but not muscling it to go fast. Make sense? Then, if the cadence runs above 100, that means you should shift gears... to keep your legs spinning fast.... and to up your speed.

What candence you choose is a matter of preference. I like to hand around 90-100... when I get around 110... and my butt starts bounching in the seat... I know it's time to shift up a gear. And when my butt is bouncing... that means my energy is not being used efficiently.

Once I learned what cadence worked for me... I learned when I needed to shift up or down... and I learned how to spin... saving my knees from pain.

Good luck!
2006-01-07 2:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?
A friend sent me an Excel spreadsheet that serves as a "Gear Inch Cadence and Speed Conversion" tool. I can send it to anyone who wants it. Just shoot me an e-mail offline at [email protected]. I can upload it if someone tells me how.
2006-01-07 3:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?

When I first started riding I could not keep 90 rpm for long either. I think Bear is right first time on the bike helps a lot... If your bike computer does not have a cadance sensor get one that does... It ia a BIG help. 90 RMP is way slower than I thought it was. next try seme drills like a one leg drill in a trainer and doing spin ups where you spin as fast as you can for say 30 seconds without your butt bouncing. over time you will develop the ability to easily spin 90+ RPM. Like anything it takes practice. I can easily spin 100RPM for a long period of time and hit 120+ in a spin up without bouncing.

While there are some people who can turn a big gear at 75 RPM all day my experiance tells me this is rare, and MOST people are faster and more efficient at 85 to 100RPM. Watch any bike race and the top pro's who can all put put more watage than most of us still turn 90ish RPM.

2006-01-07 4:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?
During the cold, winter months is a perfect time to use a stationary bike at your local YMCA or health club to increase your cadence. When I started training on the bike for the first time it was on a stationary and using 90 RPM came real easy. Now when I get on a real bike it is natural to use that cadence.


2006-01-07 6:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?
A buddy of mine just did IM FL. He previous did the IM in Clermont. He has spent a lot of time prepping the bike and increasing his cadence. He said it really paid off for him and he's a huge proponent of spinning now. It really saved his energy for the run.
2011-06-25 3:49 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?
I have another question. I just started really paying attention to my cadence and did a ride trying to keep it at 85-95 but the cadence that felt most natural to me was 95-105. My bike computer was beeping at me the hole time and I felt like I was working a lot harder than usual.  So is there any problem to adjusting my goal cadence to 95-105?
2011-06-25 4:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?

I would imagine rather than some sort of magic number to work up to, a cadence of 90 is probably a starting point for figuring out your ideal cadence.  A ballpark number.  I tried this last year where I worked to try to pedal at 90 after hearing the same thing and found 90 to be pretty hard to maintain, and my heart rate also would skyrocket when doing it for too long.  But at the same time I had also determined that I was mashing way too much and killing my legs when it was down around 75.  Eventually I settled in at a number somewhere around 83-85 that felt just about right. 

Still that 90 number that I initially tried got me moving in the right direction of pedaling with more cadence than when I had just ridden recreationally (when I tended to just mash in the highest gear) and it got me thinking about pedaling technique and efficiency.  As you ride more this may be the case where you become more efficient pedaling and your cadence naturally rises a bit as a result.

2011-06-25 4:14 PM
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Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.

Edited by Fred Doucette 2011-06-25 4:19 PM
2011-06-25 4:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?
Okay, so should I shoot for my natural cadence all the time or should I be focusing more on a different parameter (HR, Speed, etc)?


2011-06-25 4:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?
Because that's where Lance rode...

Mark
2011-06-25 5:06 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?

Yet... for most beginners... they ride too low of a cadence and increased cadence is more efficient.

When  I began riding a long time ago I was a real masher. Over time I got a decent spin from commuting. Never tried to "hit" any magic number.... but low and behold I find 90 to be quite comfortable for most everything. For me.. above 110 is a waste of my time, and it has to to be a stupid steep hill to get me below 70.

Now this is total opinion... but it seems to me most beginners brains equate speed with hard effort judging from the only thing they know... running. Seems most beginners I introduce to cycling figure out pretty quick that cadence does not equal effort, and once they figure out gearing, cadence naturally comes up.

2011-06-25 6:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?
I don't know much, but the advice I was given last year when I was starting out was to aim to (1) stay consistent...that is, adjust my gears however necessary in order to maintain a steady cadence, and (2) in general, try to stay at whatever cadence I can maintain without mashing...so in that conversation, I was told to aim for 70's year 1, 80's year 2, 80s-90's year 3, with the idea being that I'd need to work my way up (in order to be able to maintain that cadence w/o too much breathlessness), but above all to strive for consistency... all I can say is that it's working for me.....
2011-06-25 9:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?

The 90 cadence folklore comes from the cycling world . . . but then again they do not have to run after they get off the bike. There are other schools of thought (Sutton/ Team TBB, etc) which believe riding in the low 70s takes the load off the cardio system and better prepares the athlete for the run at a 90 cadence. At the end of the day it is not swim+bike+run, but swimbikerun - each leg is inter-dependant.

2011-06-25 10:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?
Fred Doucette - 2011-06-25 4:14 PM

OK, lots of well-meaning advice, but flat out not true.

Cadence is an individual thing that you will determine as you ride lots and lots. As Bear said many will ride 85-95 as a 'natural' cadence.

Cadence of 90 does NOT:

1. Improve your run performance. That is flat out untrue and there is no 'good' science to support that.
2. Reduce buildup of lactic acid.
3. Provide the most efficient cadence for ALL cyclists.

As an example I ride in cadences of 65-70 in training and race often in the lower 70s. I ride FFOP and run reasonably well off the bike in most races (not my last one but that was unrelated to cadence).

My coach was the 5th overall amateur at IMTX this year (won M45-49) and his cadence is very similar to mine. 72-75 for racing, lower in training.

Again I AM NOT RECOMMENDING mine or my coach's cadences but rather suggesting that there is more than 1 way to ride and run well.

Please, please, please do not try to sell the idea that there is an 'optimal' cadence for all. There is no 'run saving' cadence on the bike. 90 bike does not equal 90 run cadence. It just doesn't work this way.

I seem to be finding these cadence myths propagating more and more on the site and will continue to fight them.

 

^^this..

I kept trying to keep my cadence in the approved zones and it just never felt right.  I learned to just ignore what cadence my computer was reading, and go by what felt better which was lower than 90.  

Go by what feels right to your body,  do some bricks off the bike after different cadences, and judge for yourself



2011-06-26 1:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?

It takes me about 3-5 miles to get into a nice groove.  That is mid to high 80's for me.  I sometimes go higher, but only for a few miles.  last year I was so worried about the magic high number, I spent alot of time watching my meter. This year I ride by what feels right and look when I am done.  It seems to come back to the same number range and I can run better off the bike.

like someone else mentioned, when my but is bouncing, I shift up.

Joe 

2011-06-26 10:29 AM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?
For cruising I've learned to watch my heart rate and my speed first, and then look check my cadence after I'm satisfied and things feel good. Usually my cadence is 90, but other days it's 85 or 95. If I keep my heart rate as low as possible on the bike I perform better after I get off, plus recovery from the workout is much better.
2011-06-26 10:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Bike newbie question - why 90 cadence?
I am just over a year into training, so a relative noob too. As I have ramped up training, and including a lot of cadence drills (eg. keeping cadence at 90ish for most of 1-2 hr ride, then, 100 for 3 min, 110 for 2 min, 120 for 1min, 5 min back to 90, repeat) I can say that the higher cadence makes a HUGE difference to me. I have consistently watched my HR become more efficient since I started higher cadence and associated drills.

Edited by carlmanx 2011-06-26 10:49 AM
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