General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Running - speed work Rss Feed  
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2006-01-09 5:58 PM

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Subject: Running - speed work
Hey everyone!
I am just starting out with the run-focused Olympic tri training plan which is basically:

M - short swim & short ride
T - short run
W - long swim
Th - med run
F - long ride
S - rest
S - long run

I'm looking to do some speed sessions and thought that it would be a good idea to do so during my shorter training sessions - i.e. Monday's swim and Tuesday's run. However, before doing so, I wanted to check whether it is a good idea to follow Mon's double session with an intense running speed session?

Any advice would be very much appreciated! This program is a step up from the training I used to do, with 2 extra sessions a week, so I want to make sure I'm not pushing myself too much in fear of injury.

Thanks so much in advance!


2006-01-09 6:23 PM
in reply to: #320163

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Running - speed work
What is your run base? If it is very limited, I would recommend skipping all speed work for at least most of the first season - you will make the most significant gains as your body learns to run and become more efficient at it at slower speeds. As your form and strength improves, then you can add speedwork with less risk of injury.

Shane
2006-01-09 6:36 PM
in reply to: #320170

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Subject: RE: Running - speed work
Thanks a lot for your reply Shane!

I've been running for a couple of years but only really consistently running 3 times a week since about May last year - usually ranging between 6km -11km runs. I haven't done any speed sessions before, just trying to build a base and getting used to running longer distances. However, I have been eager to get my 5km times, and eventually my 10km times down, so was thinking about starting to incorporate speed sessions.

Still to soon do you think? Perhaps give it a couple of months??
2006-01-09 6:43 PM
in reply to: #320163

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Running - speed work
Just a few questions for you:

When is your competitive season?
What is your average pace? HR?
How many km's did you put in last year?
How do you recover from your long efforts?
What are your 5k and 10k PRs?

Shane
2006-01-09 8:22 PM
in reply to: #320177

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Subject: RE: Running - speed work
Beaniebum-
One of my favorite speed workouts that doesn't require an incredibly extensive base is a slightly modified version of Lasso 800s. Lasso 800s are focused on preparing an individual for a marathon. However, I'm not planning on doing any marathons anytime soon; therefore, I modified the workout to better fit my needs. What it entails is a continuous run on the track in which you pick your desired race pace (ex. 6 minute miles for a 5k) and then you run 800s 15 seconds faster than your race pace. When you finish the hard 800 you immediately do a relaxed 400 right into the next hard 800. Start with few, maybe 3-5, and when you feel prepared to step it up, add more. After you get up to 6-8, it's time to pick up the pace again. That's one of my preferred speed workouts. It also helps with endurance because you are running continuously. I generally finish any speed workout with 5 x 100 just to focus exclusively on my speed. Hope that helps, if not, just ignore me!
2006-01-11 4:30 AM
in reply to: #320223

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Subject: RE: Running - speed work
Thanks a lot Drew! You've definitely been helpful and sounds like a great workout which I'm keen to try!

Shane, in answer to your questions -
My competitive tri season would be summer (southern hemisphere). I haven't competed in a tri before so was looking to do my first one at the end of this year. I will, however, be looking to entering in a few running races later on in the year (probably April onwards). I run avg 6mins/km - hence wanting to improve my times - but don't have official PRs as I haven't really raced. I've just been running to build distance and endurance - but this year, I would like to focus on my 5 and 10km and improve my speed. I would like to do focus on speed with speed sessions before entering races. I'm not sure about the kms I did last year, sorry, and I seem to pull up after long runs as well as I do other training runs - without any extra tiredness or anything.

Hope this gives you enough background - thank you so much for your help!


2006-01-11 7:17 AM
in reply to: #321127

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Subject: RE: Running - speed work
My workouts are somehat similar to your schedule.

M - rest
Tues - run (tempo) morning, ride easy evening
Weds - swim (form) morning, ride (tempo) evening
Thurs - run (intervals)
Fri - swim (endurance)
Sat - LSD ride
Sun - LSD run

For now I'm making the Thurs run just a decent aerobic pace to get my base up again. But I'm using the Tues. run as a "tempo" run where I start easy and after a period ramp it up to about half marathon pace and then easy for a cool down. As the season progresses the Thurs. workout will become a mile repeat session with anywhere from 3 - 5 mile repeats at 5k pace. But that will not be until next month since I want to just work on form and base.

I would suggest a similar approach for you.
2006-01-11 7:25 AM
in reply to: #320223

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Giver
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Subject: RE: Running - speed work

It's Yasso. unless they involve a rope. Which would be cool. 

 

Drewwhite - 2006-01-09 9:22 PM ...Lasso 800s.

2006-01-11 7:26 AM
in reply to: #320163

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Giver
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Subject: RE: Running - speed work
Beaniebum...what's your limiter? You have 3x running, but only 2x biking and swimming. If running is your wekest discipline, than that's good. But if it's swimming or biking, you should emphasize it instead. Focus on making your weakness your strength!
2006-01-11 8:43 AM
in reply to: #321127

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Running - speed work
Best of luck with your first tri! If you are running around 6'/km at a low HR you can probably look at starting some type of speedwork. Look at starting to incorporate some tempo work into your running - once a week you could look at running a zone 3 effort for ten minutes or more (build the time gradually).

In addition, if you don't already do so, you could consider doing some hill running (not hill repeats - just runs with hills) once a week. This will help build strength which will also help you run faster. Be careful running downhill as it is easy to go too hard and injure yourself.

I would also avoid doing the tempo runs and hill runs in the same week for the first month or more until you see how your body handles them and how you recover.

Shane
2006-01-11 9:31 AM
in reply to: #320163

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Subject: RE: Running - speed work
My 2c - informed by my own experiences of having to drop out of training for the NY marathon when I was ten years younger and fifteen pounds lighter: I'm with the camp that says you should ease into speed work carefully. But I think if your number and duration of sessions has been steady for at least four weeks (and you're not currently adding any significant mileage), then you could certainly start. Just be conservative and know that you are getting faster just putting in the miles on your regular runs that are (I assume?) within your aerobic range.

I would start with some easy speed work for a few weeks - three to five 200-400 meter pickups at 15 - 20 seconds / kilometer slower than your 10K race pace in the middle of your short or medium run. (If you have no idea what your 10K pace is, you can conservatively ballpark it at one minute / kilometer faster than your everyday running pace.) I think 800 meters at faster than 5k pace is a little fast for starters! Once you know you're comfortable with that amount of work, you can just increase the speed or duration of the pickups.

But the bottom line, no matter what system of speed work you adopt - hills, informal pickups, intervals, fast continuous runs - is that you just start SLOWLY. Even with a gradual buildup you could still be doing hardcore speed work in a few months, but if you do it gradually you'll eliminate a lot of the possibility (and fear) of injury.



2006-01-11 10:18 AM
in reply to: #321187

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Subject: RE: Running - speed work
run4yrlif - 2006-01-11 5:25 AM

It's Yasso. unless they involve a rope. Which would be cool.

Drewwhite - 2006-01-09 9:22 PM ...Lasso 800s.



Well, I lived in Texas for 2 years which obviously means that I don't go anywhere without my rope! Thanks for the correction! You've saved me from looking like an idiot around others! Well, maybe I'm beyond hope, but at least I'll know how to say it right!
2006-01-12 6:00 PM
in reply to: #320163

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Subject: RE: Running - speed work
Thank you so much for all the replies! Really useful advice - what a great forum!

Daremo – thanks for your advice! I guess it comes back to my original question of how you decide which training session to do your speed work? I was thinking of doing my intervals during my short run session for the week – but this is the day after I do a short swim session of intervals in the morning and an short easy ride in the evening. I will definitely be easing into any speed work (thx Shane and Stevarino!), but wasn’t sure if it was a better idea doing the day after a less intense day (say, a single session - just an endurance swim)???

Run4yrlif – Running is definitely my weakest – I took that up the most recently so really want to build on it. The good thing is that I absolutely love it and enjoy that the most out of the 3!

By the way, Drew –you mentioned that you modified the Yasso 800s (or lasso - hey, you convinced me!!) to suit you – just wondering what running distances you do?
2006-01-12 6:27 PM
in reply to: #322906

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Running - speed work
As far as scheduling, I find that what works best for me is to hit my speedwork as rested as possible and to also be able to recover following the session.

For example, I did some tempo work on Tuesday evening following a rest day Monday and didn't run again until tonight, which was a short recovery (zone 1 run).

So I would say the day you are looking at probably makes sense - just make sure you take it easy the next day as well to let your body absorb the work you've done

Shane
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