Brokeback Mountain Message - Possible spoiler

Yeah...I guess you could watch Garden State and get the idea that it's depressing to be straight. 

I am not a big fan of this director (style, etc) but it doesn't occur to me that there is any "message" behind this movie.  Just another love story, where the main characters are both men. 

I think the message is in the surrounding hype, not the movie.  Isn't the movie just a simple story (as previously stated) about two people?  It's everyone else's reaction, both positive and negative, that is the message.  At least that's the way I see it.

Slight hijack:

A few years ago, there was a South Park episode about an independent film festival coming to town. Kyle complained that every film was about "gay cowboys eating pudding."

So now there's been an independent film made about gay cowboys (not sure if there's a pudding--eating scene or not, but whatever), and I haven't heard a single person or media outlet (not even Entertainment Weekly) make a gay-cowboys-eating-pudding joke.

I think that's weird. 

That's exactly what I get! Just these vague, glazed-over looks like I'm speaking Esperanto or something. 

I think the underlying motive for most film makers is to make money. 

 Probably not Ang Lee, though.

I took a class in semiotics in college, and it was fascinating. There's actually more subtext in visual arts than most people realize. 

It was directed by Ang Lee of "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" fame.  I've looked around and can't find any mention that the man is gay, but that's not a requirement to direct the movie.  The movie was based on a short story written by Annie Proulx in the New Yorker back in 97, so the message is probably her's.

My brother in law is gay and he is rarely depressed.  In fact, he is usually very upbeat and happy to be doing whatever he's doing at that moment.  Whenever he has friends over they seem to be much the same.  Maybe the message of the movie (and I haven't seen it so this is only a guess) was more along the lines of what society's reactions can do to a person.

You might get a better perspective on the whole thing if you read the original story.  But I can't find it anywhere online right now.

The movie is simply a take on the old theme of "impossible love story" a la Romeo and Juliette. That's all. That's it. You are trying to read too much into it. Just because you weren't moved my the love story does not mean you missed something - for whatever reason (?) it didn't strike a chord with you.

I saw it with my very happily gay friend. Are you actually saying you don't know any gay people?

In film, most subtext isn't in the overall message of the movie (afterall, directors don't normally write), it's more in the message, feeling or mood they are trying to convey in a particular scene.

As in, why is baby carying those watermellons so clumsily in "Dirty Dancing"?

And if you really want to see some gay subtext, just watch "Top Gun". 

I'm pretty sure two men were used because there were two men in Annie Prouxl's story. 

I didn't say it was Romeo and Juliette - I said it was like it in that it is an impossible love story. When circustances make love impossible. In today's era, the characters would have had a very different relationship, and that's part of the point of the story: when and where they are and how that limits possiblities. In this way it most closely resembles a Victorian novel.

Personally, I found the relationship so remarkably un-shocking, that it transcended what you call it's "shock value". That was Lee's point.

It seems to me that the story is not so much about "impossible love" but moreso about the difficulty of life and love on the margins of society.  The couple could just as easily have been an interracial heterosexual couple in Mississippi in the 1950's and brought the same meaningful story to light.  It just so happens that this one is set in 1960's - 70's ranch/cowboy Wyoming which, if today is any indicator, was about the last place you'd want to be discovered as a homosexual.

What I came away with was a deeper conviction that homosexuality is not a conscious choice that a person makes.  I can't imagine any reason why most people would choose a life on the margins of society.  That's not to say that today's gay population resides there but its definitely a different life than your average heterosexual.  I also came away with even more compassion for my gay friends.  Relationships aren't easy to begin with - we all know that.  It seems the addition of the stress that the social stigma brings could crush a lot of would-be couples.

Can you tell I loved the movie?  Hopefully Heath Ledger gets the Oscar.  I thought his performance was incredible.  I haven't seen Capote, however.  Its next on my list.

Tom

Addition to slight hijack: That South Park episode was funny as hell.

For me, the movie really captured what is going on in our country right now with the gay politcal/social agenda.  A lot of stuff I wanted to say has already been brought up, about how the movie works as a social commentary for what gay people must work through, and how it really just highlights the fact the love is love is love, that there are no boundaries.

But I also think the movie means something a little different to those of us who are gay and those of us who are straight.  I think it is easier for the straight population to watch the movie and think that it is just a love story, or just a social commentary, without really putting backing on to it of what is happening and has happened that would give the movie so much hype.

Despite all of the talk about equality and rights, even in the light of civil unions, gay marriage and hate crime punishments, gay people still live (in most areas of the country) with an attached stigma.  In most places, it is not okay to walk around holding hands or show affection, or do any one of the numerous things that straight couples take for granted.  In many places, you can still be verbally, or worse, physically attacked for being gay.  People still get killed because of it.  And speaking from the experience of having worked on a ranch in Wyoming, it is not okay to be gay, and if you are you had better pretend you're not or you risk losing the social structure that is the base of your life and being outcast from the small community that surrounds you.

So I think this movie can serve as a wake-up call as well as a nice love story.  I think it is asking people to challenge their standard view of love, to understand that we gays folks go through the same torment of love and loss but often without having any kind of support net in which to lean on.  And maybe, because there is so much hype and talk surrounding the movie, that there will be more communication on all levels about equality.

Maybe I am optimistic, but that is what the movie showed me.

Oh yeah, since some people have felt that is must be depressing to be gay after watching this movie:  Please don't.  I am going to out myself, and say that I am happier than most people I know, but I can guarantee that part of it is because I have an incredibly supportive community here, and that when I have lived/worked in places where I can't tell anyone, I am am not as a happy.  But that is not because I am gay, it is because it upsets me that people will outcast me for something that I can't control and isn't their business.