training zone question

mikericci - 2006-01-19 1:58 PM

I LOVE your passion. I LOVE the fact that you want to go out and PR everytime you run. That is AWESOME, and I wish I could bottle that - I would be very rich!

McFuzz - 2006-01-19 12:23 PM



Naw, that kind of thinking already exists. You want to make $$, sell the antedote.
>>I already have the antedote: Bad coaching - aka some coach who will let you do that every day. :-)

I saw myself in some of the original post. I'm probably not training at 100%, but I've probably trained too much at 85-95%. (Things like running the same route, with a couple of hills. Now that I have the HRM, I found out I'm coming up the last one at 185--195 bpm, and I was doing that run every day.) I'm starting to get used to some lower intensity workouts.
>>>I had a beginner group I was coaching here a few years (runners only for a 10k) and I asked them if they ever changed their loop up - and they all look at me funny - and I said - "you know, like run the loop in reverse?" - they all just stood there - and then someone said "I never thought of that" - so same goes for you! at least run the loop in reverse!

McFuzz - 2006-01-19 12:50 PM

85-95% kind of a mix between RPE and max HR (since I didn't have a monitor).
>>>How about using an RPE scale of 1-10 from now on?

I'm reading up on some of this. I'm going to try to take advantage of my Gold membership.
>>That would be smart of yo


(Sorry Hangloose, not trying to hijack your thread.)

mikericci - 2006-01-19 3:28 PMPS - I don't know what 85-95% means - but if you are referring to max HR - then please do some reading:http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25733&start=1

hangloose - 2006-01-19 12:51 PM

As a beginner here I'm still fascinated by reading and learning all about heart rates, training zones, lactate thresholds, etc.  I get the concept of training at different intensities for different purposes, and the benefits of training at lower intensities.  Here's my problem.  I can't put it into action.  I tend to be fairly obsessive/intense about my workouts and even though I haven't calculated my zones or been tested, I'm guessing that I normally work out in a higher zone than I "should".  But I love it.  That feeling of going out there and really pushing myself, accomplishing things I never thought I could.  The exhilaration that comes with pushing oneself to and sometimes beyond what you thought your limits were is intoxicating.  Every time I start out a workout by saying, "ok, nice and slow, we are shooting for LSD here" I end up halfway through figuring out how fast I have to go to have a shot at my PB.  I can't help myself, it's so damn fun!  If I don't mind not following the ideal workout plan, am I risking anything other than the overtraining bug by training at higher intensities most of the time?  I know what I should do, but I'm in this because it's fun and doing it this way is fun for me.  Is that wrong?

(I guess now I'll wait for the landslide of posts from people saying after reviewing my logs they thought all my workouts were LSD to begin with.)

hangloose - 2006-01-19 2:51 PM

I tend to be fairly obsessive/intense about my workouts and even though I haven't calculated my zones or been tested, I'm guessing that I normally work out in a higher zone than I "should". But I love it. That feeling of going out there and really pushing myself, accomplishing things I never thought I could. The exhilaration that comes with pushing oneself to and sometimes beyond what you thought your limits were is intoxicating.

If I don't mind not following the ideal workout plan, am I risking anything other than the overtraining bug by training at higher intensities most of the time?

TH3_FRB - 2006-01-19 8:06 PM

Want to talk about obsessive training? I'd say that doing exactly what you know you should be doing day after day without ever breaking from your carefully developed training plan is the ultimate in obsessive training. The self-discipline that is required to hold back and do nothing but Z1/Z2 LSD runs for months on end because it's what will make you fastest in the long run (pun intended )...that's obsessive. Doing drill work in the pool religiously, every single session...that's obsessive. Watching the pack drop you on long rides because hanging on would mean pushing 5bpm harder than your training plan calls for...that's obsessive. Trust me, I know that feeling of pushing yourself to and beyond your limits...and it's very rewarding...but save those days for a few carefully planned key training sessions and for race day. I PR'd virtually every race I ran this season and I obsessed over my training every day in between. The only thing you have to lose by going hard most of the time (other than burning out and over-use injuries) is falling short of your true potential. If you're obsessive about your performance then that should be plenty of motivation to get a plan and stick with it.

davidb - 2006-01-20 12:30 PM

This is a timely thread, as I coincidently decided to use my run this morning and do the time trial test.

My average HR over the last 20 min was 179. I hope I was doing it correctly. By the end, my HR was up to 188, and that was definitely a pace I could not have maintainted continuously for much longer. But the average was 179, so that's what I use as LT, right? (Average pace was 7:48/mile)
>>>As long as you went as hard as you could have for 30', you did it right.

When I plug this into Mike's HR zone calculator, I get these values:

Z1 118-152
Z2 152-162
Z3 163-171
Z4 172-178
Z5 179-183
Z5+ 184-189
Z5++ 190-198

But here's what I start getting confused. Recently, I've been targeting keeping my run runs in the upper 140s or lower 150s. (It usually starts drifting up towards the end or the run to the mid 150s). So it looks like I've been running at the very upper end of Z1 or even the low end of Z2. But should I really be targeting my 'easy' runs to the middle of Z1?

>>recovery runs for you are under 152.

I always hear that the easy runs should feel really slow, even walking. But those runs at the upper end of Z1 don't feel that slow to me. Usually the pace is somewhere around 10:00 min/mile pace. It's certainly not a fast pace, and I can hold that pace for a long time, but I couldn't hold a completely continuous conversation the whole time. (Instead it would be a couple of sentences, an extra breath, some more sentences, etc.)
>>>You are doing the right pace/HR - easy running is usually about 2 minutes per mile slower that LT pace - since LT pace is 7:48/mile - around 9:48/mile is right on target.

Honestly, it sounds like you have been going too easy on your long runs. Bump it up and over 152 - start out with just 10-15' for now, in the middle of your longer runs and over time, it will get easier.

Should I really be targeting the middle of Z1, around 135? I can get past 135 just warming up for my normal jogs, so I can see where it would feel a lot slower. (And I'm sure I would likely complain about feeling like I'm going too slow to be doing good, even though we all know otherwise.)