real purpose of a recovery drink?

yes, you need carbs. You need carbs and protein in a 3:1 ratio (carbs to protein). The carbs need to be long chain tho, like maltodextrine, dextrose or glucose polymer. The soy protein should work, but animal based protein such as Whey protein is more readily absorbed for some reason.

Main goal of a recovery drink is to supply the muscles with what they need to repair themselves and restore your glycogen supply. When you don't fully replentish glycogen you get that fatigue feeling in your legs. A good recovery drink will keep you feeling fresh after the intial shock of the workout wears off.

Here's a good read


Edited by vortmax 2006-01-26 9:01 PM

thanks matt,

i finally got to the section on recover in 'sports nutrition for endurance athletes' and she says what you said! when i've used the clif recovery drink, i really do feel better and more energized the rest of the day, but i wasn't sure if it was the carbs or the protein that was causing that effect. if it was the protein, well - why not protein powder. if its both, with carbs being essential, then i think i'll get another tub of clif shot recovery when i run out of this stuff (my husband has been using it too, so it will be gone soon).

3:1, that's a pretty high ration if your talking about a shake in the glycogen window. In fact, from immeditely after a workout and for 30 more minutes, your cells are at their peak of receptiveness to carbs and if you take in protein and carbs in a 3:1 ratio, the carbohydrates might not be abosrbed in time to get to cells durring this window. That shake you mentioned would probably be best about an hour after a workout. Right when your done though, 200 calories of simple sugars (yes they'll still be stored as glycogen thanks to insulin) like natural fructose...in fruit (or 100% fruit juices) is best.

Read through the link I posted above

Another thing is that simple carbs such as surcose anf fructose require low concentrations to be absorbed. So to adequatly absorb enough fructose for recovery would involve drinking a lot of water. Probably enough to make you sick. Where as complex carbs like maltodextrin and glucose polymers can be digested at much higher concentrations, eliminating this problem. Eating fruit and getting fructose that way is good, but you have to have the complex sugars, and since your body is most receptive right after working out, the sooner the better

Edited by vortmax 2006-01-27 9:27 AM

Okay, say you're on a budget. Is there anything (juice, etc.) that would make a good recovery drink that I wouldn't have to buy at a nutrition store or should I make the sacrifice and buy some clif or other recovery drink?

recovery drinks are actually pretty cheap. I buy Hammer recoverite in bulk and it's 33 servings for $50.

If you want to make your own recovery foods/drinks, just find natural sources of the carbs and protein you need. Hummis with corn tortilla's an an excellent source as you get protein in the hummis and maltodextrin from the corn. Burritos are the same way, altho the protein is a little higher, so you may want to find something else with more carbs to eat as well.

the problem with a homemade revocery drink, is that complex carbs like dextrose (aka glucose) and maltodextrine are not sweet. This is why Gatoraide is loaded with fructose as well. So unless you can get those carbs in a purified state, your drink will have some interesting things going into it. Same for protein. So unless you like drinking a steak and bread smoothie (also known as Guinness), then you might want to look at buying the powders.

BTW, you can use gels as your source of carbs if you add in an additional source of protein.

finally getting through more of 'sports nutrition for endurance athletes' (great, eye openning read, seriously). she says that for recovery, you should take in .5-.7 grams of carbs perpound of body weight w/in 30 minutes of endurance exercise. higher glycemic foods work best, liquid or solid - sports drinks (like recovery drink), breads, cereals. protein may help too, since it may speed up muscle recovery and repair. some other high glycemic foods she lists are about a dozen different cereals, dates, french baguette, rice, baked potato, pretzels (w/ peanut butter...mmmm...my own recommedation, not hers), waffles, graham crackers, bagels, etc. so, maybe some juice and some pretzels (not blended, of course! ).

where are the chocolate milk guys? i rememeber the days when recovery drinks would come up, and there would be a whole camp of guys who drank chocolate milk for recovery. not a bad idea. some of those carnation instant breakfasts maybe? those might work?

the clif shot recovery drink i started using last year (and like enough to spend $$ on again) is $20 at energyfoodwarehouse.com (pre-shipping), $23 at performance (pre-shipping), or $27 at rei. a jug of the stuff holds 15 servings, but you use less or more depending on how much you weigh (again, going back to that formula of grams of carbs times body weight). its yummy, and i most days i can tell that it actually did something, versus just having an apple (which is low glycemic) and some water.

Basically what I said. More ploymers in the chain, lower the GI (glycemic index). Among the foods you listed, a baked potato has the highest GI. On a scale of 1-100, a baked potato is 98. The baking process breaks down the ploymers really well.

actually, dates are even higher - 103! and YUMMY! i bought a container of them over the weekend and am having to control my desire to eat them all up. baked potatoes are one of my favorite post-swim foods if i swim late at night. never knew why they made me so happy, but now i know.

Wow, I read through that article and I was pretty shocked Hammer put that out. A few things wrong there. For one, the only study they actually sited was from a book publish in 1993, lightyears ago in terms of sports phsyiology. Two, most of the doses of carbohydrates they listed are extremely high, A good dose post workout is 200 calories, not 200g. Three, chromium studies have been ify at best for proving benefit and there's substantial evidence that overdosing (which you will do if you take their recommended dose) does more harm than good. Plus don't you think that the source is a little biast. I mean, they are selling a product that would be hard for a consumer to make on their own and make recoverite to be the best thing you'll ever take. If you really want a good read, try Bicycling Medicine by Arnie Baker, practicing phsician and 5 time national champion and he also sources the studies he uses.

Thanks for the info. I think it's time to make room in my pantry for a tub of recovery drink mix - right next to the gatorade. It'll probably taste better after an a.m. swim than a baked potato, although prunes don't sound too bad

Or, here's an idea, you could just eat actual FOOD, yes? Most foods, especially plant foods (fruit, veggies, nuts, grains) contain all 3 macronutrients (carbohydrate, protein, fat). So, for example, wouldn't a banana topped with a spoonful of almond butter make an excellent recovery food?

I'm quite confused as to why people tend to use processed, powdered drinks for recovery, rather than actual food. I understand using gels and electrolyte drinks while training or racing because, let's face it, you can't sit down to a salad in the middle of a long ride and couldn't stomach it anyway. But after a workout, why not just eat actual food? It's got to be more nutritious than all these cooky recovery powders, right? My idea of a "recovery drink" is young coconut water!

Maybe someone can help me out with this, but I just don't get the reasoning behind recovery drinks at all.

because a recovery drink is more controlled. It's much easier to get the exact ratio, quantity and type of carbs and protein.

also, some people just don't have an appetite after exercise. i can usually eat an apple or half a banana, but that's it. i would need to eat 3 apples to get as many calories, and 4 apples to get as many carbs, 16 to get as much protein. okay, now i'm envisioning both the total cereal ads and the seuss book 'ten apples up on top'. anyway, same with bananas - 2 whole bananas to get the same calories, nearly 2 for the carbs, 5+ for protein.

the almond butter idea is appealing for total calories and protein, but even when eating it with a whole banana, you'd still need to make up a lot of carbs. maybe slather the banana and almond butter in honey? all in all, that's a lot of food to put down after a hard workout. i'd be very uncomfortable physically eating that much within the 30 minute window. sometimes it takes me over an hour before i feel like eating more than a single piece of fruit. drinking is no problem, so the recovery drink works great.

more rationalizations ahead -> my other consideration is that when i'm done working out, i'm lucky to have time to even mix a recovery drink and do a couple stretches before my kids are climbing on me. the drinks are very convenient if you need to get back to the rest of your life following a workout.

the rest of the day - real food. good, mostly local, organically grown, whole foods. tonight we had black eyed peas w/ steamed kale and collards, with loads of garlic. yum yum. i LOVE eating, so if i had an appetite after workout out, i'd be a happy camper. as it is, i'd rather drinking something and have a better recovery. i may look into trying chocolate silk or silk chai, since they have similar calories, carbs, and protein as compared to the clif shot drink.

i really like the clif shot recovery. it uses 76% organic non-gmo ingredients, has amino acids, antioxidants, electrolytes, protein, a, e, c, green tea, and its kosher! i've had it after the last three days' workouts and i have been in a MUCH better mood the rest of the day. i also feel like i have a lot more energy for every day things. tomorrow will be my first day doing a two workout day, so i'll see if it helps.

and even in that fruit example you'd be getting mostly fructose. Fructose is actually too low on the glycemic index to be a great recovery carb. You need either raw glucose (dextrose) or something that readily breaks into glucose like maltodextrine. The other thing about fructose is that to be absorbed, it requires a fairly low concentration in the stomach. This means it needs to be diluted down pretty well. In a lot of cases this requires enough liquid to fill the stomach. The higher glycemic index carbs can be absorbed in higher concentrations, so less liquid is required. Also the best protein for recovrey is animal based, so protein from a banana won't be absorbed as well.

Hmmm....well....I definitely sympathize with the convenience factor. I suppose, though, it would take a lot of convincing to get me to believe that any kind of processed "food" could rival actual FOOD nutritionally -- whether it be eaten pre-workout, post-workout, or just relaxing on a sandy beach somewhere. I just cannot fathom the possibility that the human body somehow works better when ingesting something that came from a lab than when ingesting something that came from a farm.

I'm a big fan of doing what works for you as an individual, though. To each her own!

i totally agree with you. for all the calories i take in the rest of the day, i eat wonderful veggies, fruits, grains, etc. i'm on the board for an organic farm even and get a large portion of our foods farmer direct (and the rest from a co-op). for every day living, natural food sources are best. i can't imagine how people live on suppliments and processed foods.

you mentioned before that for training, gels and drinks make sense. you wouldn't eat a salad in the middle of a workout, right? well, that was a huge part of why all the energy suppliments were developed - a) enhance performance and b) providing simple fuels to avoid gi issues. i think the same can be applied to the 30 minute post-workout window. just like some people can eat bagels and dates on a long bike ride with no issues, while others would end up cramping - some folks can eat a sandwich 10 minutes after a workout and feel fine, others would feel awful.

Edited by autumn 2006-01-31 8:31 PM

exactly. I don't eat suppliments alone. The majority of my diet is made up of fresh and natural foods. I just use the "artificial" stuff during exercise and directly after it when eating normal "real" food is not as advantagous. I use gels during exercise and recovery drink directly after it. After that I eat a real meal and my supplimentation ends.

That's a great point, Autumn! Which is why I say, to each her own. I agree that we all have our own stomach issues, me included. I personally cannot eat much solid food at all while working out, or even within a few hours beforehand. But oh how I wish I could find something to eat besides those awful gels -- yuck!

Edited to ad: Still element here...Global is my hubby and is apparently still signed in!

Edited by Global 2006-01-31 8:43 PM

i used to think all of it was icky. the closest i came to an work-out food were clif bars on camping trips (and lots and lots of gorp). i remember hearing horror stories from friends who did a lot of rock climbing about people who downed a gel w/o water, only to be in gi distress half way up a rock face. yikes! when i worked in a bike shop and did mountain bike racing (just one season worth back in college), everyone was using cytomax and power bars. yucko! especially the power bars, which back then only came in 2 or 4 flavors (banana, malt, and chocolate, i think). give me an apple and some plain water, please!

funny - i now use gels, energy bars (i even bought some power bars!), soy/spirulina protein powder (for smoothies), electrolyte drink, and recovery drink (plus a handful of vitamin/mineral/herbal pills everyday). i use the protein powder almost every day in my lunch smoothie, but the rest is saved for workouts lasting 60 mins or more.

Wow -- that sure is a lot of stuff! I've run for years and have done lots of backcountry camping, and the most I could ever tolerate was Gatorade and the occasional Clif Bar, but even those I don't like very much. I've now gotten to the point that I can eat gels before or during workouts, but I just hate them. Not just the taste -- I don't like the energy spike/crash sequence, or the idea of eating syrups.

Have you ever heard of anyone making their own energy gels/bars? I think bars would be much easier to make than gels. I was thinking for gels that either honey or pureed dates with some electrolytes and water mixed in might work, but I've also heard of people having bad experiences with honey during workouts. Does anyone have any insight into this?

They make an honey-based gel called stinger that you might want to try http://www.honeystinger.com/products.html. On the recovery drink, is flavored milk a good option? I mixed ovaltine and strawberry Nesquik with some milk - it tastes so good - going to try it this afternoon after a longer workout.