Potassium vs. Sodium
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2006-03-10 7:51 AM |
Crystal Lake, IL | Subject: Potassium vs. Sodium I just posted a comment in another thread about this and thought I'd ask the question here, where the experts hang out. I read recently (can't remember where, maybe Iron Will which means it is "old" information) that sodium replacement is more important than potassium replacement DURING an event because your body burns through its stores of sodium faster (relative to how fast it burns through its stored potassium). That's not to say it's not important to have proper potassium levels going into the event. Just that after ___ amount of of excersize you will need replacement sodium and that that point will be reached long before the same point with potassium. Is this a generally accepted concept or completely wrong?
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2006-03-10 11:18 AM in reply to: #366081 |
Champion 8936 | Subject: RE: Potassium vs. Sodium Not entirely sure how to answer this. You need to replete both during and after strenuous exercise. Severe alterations in both are potentially deadly. As for how quickly you lose each relative to one another, I really don't know. If you're taking in both, you'll probably be ok, but I wouldn't skimp on either. You really don't have "stores" of either one in your body. You have sodium and potassium both in your cells and in the bloodstream already, and they're in an equilibrium as established by cellular pumps. Once you lose it in the blood, it'll come out of the cells to replace that. Lower intracellular potassium and sodium are the real problem. Not sure if that really helps or not. hangloose - 2006-03-10 7:51 AM I just posted a comment in another thread about this and thought I'd ask the question here, where the experts hang out. I read recently (can't remember where, maybe Iron Will which means it is "old" information) that sodium replacement is more important than potassium replacement DURING an event because your body burns through its stores of sodium faster (relative to how fast it burns through its stored potassium). That's not to say it's not important to have proper potassium levels going into the event. Just that after ___ amount of of excersize you will need replacement sodium and that that point will be reached long before the same point with potassium. Is this a generally accepted concept or completely wrong?
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2006-03-11 7:06 PM in reply to: #366371 |
Member 36 | Subject: RE: Potassium vs. Sodium Derek said it very well and I will just add that sodium becomes much more important when the heat is higher and sweat rate is increased as there is a greater risk of heat illnesses. Since sodium and chloride are found in greater amounts in sweat (with potassium right behind), they are much more important to replenish during these more intense environments. An all around electrolyte supplement or beverage will do the trick most of the time but extra sodium will be needed when the thermostat is turned up! Bob |
2006-03-11 8:51 PM in reply to: #366081 |
Expert 1238 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Potassium vs. Sodium Sodium has a big effect on your blood pressure because it lives outside of cells. Potassium mostly resides inside the cells. So it makes sense that during an event, when you have to maintain good blood flow, sodium is most important. The one thing I would say is that potassium supplementation is probably pretty dangerous, because your body doesn't tolerate a big swing in potassium (that's why sports drinks have very little potassium in them). So if you're concerned about potassium levels, you should eat a banana instead of taking a pill or something. I would suspect potassium pills don't even exist, because you would die pretty quickly from them. -dave |
2006-03-11 9:10 PM in reply to: #367349 |
Champion 8936 | Subject: RE: Potassium vs. Sodium Blood pressure as a function of sodium levels is only related to total body fluid volume. It's not really of much concern in the acute setting where you're having large fluid shifts like during intense exercise. You do have to replete sodium but not for blood pressure. And normally functioning kidneys regulate potassium levels very well. You can take in huge doses and get away with it because of that. Potassium pills do exist, and we use them for our patients with potassium issues all the time. The only people you have to worry about getting hyperkalemic are those with underlying kidney problems who can't eliminate the excess. People with normal kidneys don't have that problem. skavoovie - 2006-03-11 8:51 PM Sodium has a big effect on your blood pressure because it lives outside of cells. Potassium mostly resides inside the cells. So it makes sense that during an event, when you have to maintain good blood flow, sodium is most important. The one thing I would say is that potassium supplementation is probably pretty dangerous, because your body doesn't tolerate a big swing in potassium (that's why sports drinks have very little potassium in them). So if you're concerned about potassium levels, you should eat a banana instead of taking a pill or something. I would suspect potassium pills don't even exist, because you would die pretty quickly from them. -dave |
2006-03-11 9:41 PM in reply to: #367349 |
Champion 7547 Albuquerque, New Mexico | Subject: RE: Potassium vs. Sodium skavoovie - 2006-03-11 8:51 PM Sodium has a big effect on your blood pressure because it lives outside of cells. Potassium mostly resides inside the cells. So it makes sense that during an event, when you have to maintain good blood flow, sodium is most important. The one thing I would say is that potassium supplementation is probably pretty dangerous, because your body doesn't tolerate a big swing in potassium (that's why sports drinks have very little potassium in them). So if you're concerned about potassium levels, you should eat a banana instead of taking a pill or something. I would suspect potassium pills don't even exist, because you would die pretty quickly from them. -dave I take a 90 mg K (Potassium) pill every day. No, you don't want significant swings in Potassium. Ask my son, who "won" a bet to eat 10 bananas at school one day... |
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2006-03-11 11:55 PM in reply to: #366081 |
Expert 1238 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Potassium vs. Sodium Well, yeah people with normal kidneys can eliminate potassium. But kidney excretion is a slow process, so it's possible to overload the system if your intake is suddenly very high, especially if you're exercising and the kidneys aren't perfused. A fast way to manage potassium is to load it into cells, but when exercising potassium leaves some cells during repolarization, so this way isn't as efficient as when it you are at rest. And, actually, potassium is very high inside cells, so this does represent a store that can be utilized if potassium somehow becomes low. The same is not true for sodium. So, blood pressure isn't important? It kind of keeps you from dying. Sure, you can compensate in a number of ways, but all of these decrease the efficiency of blood flow. And blood flow is the factor that limits exercise capacity. Potassium doesn't exert any osmotic force, but sodium does, so I'm gonna go ahead and say that it's the most important. Plus hyponatremia can cause hyperkalemia, so there's a little bit of dependence there. Derek, I don't want to get into some kind of physiology competition. My only point is that sodium intake is more important for exercising people than potassium intake. |
2006-03-12 1:33 AM in reply to: #366081 |
Expert 1238 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Potassium vs. Sodium Er...I meant HYPERnatremia can cause hyperkalemia. My bad. |
2006-03-12 8:01 AM in reply to: #367390 |
Champion 8936 | Subject: RE: Potassium vs. Sodium Kidney excretion is a rapid and efficient process. I'm not sure where you're getting your info from, but I deal with this and actual patients on a daily basis. You simply cannot overload somebody with normal renal function with oral potassium. No offense, but you didn't even know that oral potassium supplements exist, so I doubt you have any experience with them. And I never said that blood pressure wasn't important. I'm saying that the sodium is not the primary osmotic force determining your blood pressure, and hyponatremia doesn't cause hypotension during exercise. Hypovolemia is what does that, and that isn't a function of your sodium. I'm honestly not sure which is more important to replace first, as sodium levels probably change more, but potassium levels that are out of whack are potentially more dangerous in the short term. Just take in something with both. I always hate threads like this because I come off sounding like a bad guy.
skavoovie - 2006-03-11 11:55 PM Well, yeah people with normal kidneys can eliminate potassium. But kidney excretion is a slow process, so it's possible to overload the system if your intake is suddenly very high, especially if you're exercising and the kidneys aren't perfused. A fast way to manage potassium is to load it into cells, but when exercising potassium leaves some cells during repolarization, so this way isn't as efficient as when it you are at rest. And, actually, potassium is very high inside cells, so this does represent a store that can be utilized if potassium somehow becomes low. The same is not true for sodium. So, blood pressure isn't important? It kind of keeps you from dying. Sure, you can compensate in a number of ways, but all of these decrease the efficiency of blood flow. And blood flow is the factor that limits exercise capacity. Potassium doesn't exert any osmotic force, but sodium does, so I'm gonna go ahead and say that it's the most important. Plus hyponatremia can cause hyperkalemia, so there's a little bit of dependence there. Derek, I don't want to get into some kind of physiology competition. My only point is that sodium intake is more important for exercising people than potassium intake. |
2006-03-12 3:25 PM in reply to: #366081 |
Elite 2796 Texas | Subject: RE: Potassium vs. Sodium I wouldn't want to have to mess with individual eletrolytes or even marconutrients for that matter during a race or training. I'm a Hammer Nutrition fan, so I use their stuff (HEED, Perpeteum, Endurolytes, gels) in quantities they recommend based on activity (intensity and duration) and climate. It seems to be working well for me. I experimented a little to figure out precisely what works, and I build it into my plan so I don't have to think about it when I'm training. |
2006-03-12 3:55 PM in reply to: #367648 |
Champion 8936 | Subject: RE: Potassium vs. Sodium And that's basically the solution to the debate. Just take in something that's all inclusive and don't worry about picking and choosing. Does beer count? RGRBILL - 2006-03-12 3:25 PM I wouldn't want to have to mess with individual eletrolytes or even marconutrients for that matter during a race or training. I'm a Hammer Nutrition fan, so I use their stuff (HEED, Perpeteum, Endurolytes, gels) in quantities they recommend based on activity (intensity and duration) and climate. It seems to be working well for me. I experimented a little to figure out precisely what works, and I build it into my plan so I don't have to think about it when I'm training. |
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2006-03-12 4:01 PM in reply to: #366081 |
Elite 2796 Texas | Subject: RE: Potassium vs. Sodium Oh yeah...beer counts. I've been severely beer deficient lately. Too much work. :-p |
2006-03-13 10:29 AM in reply to: #366081 |
Crystal Lake, IL | Subject: RE: Potassium vs. Sodium Thanks for all the interesting reading guys. I hope no one is upset about the disagreements contained in this thread because it actually led to more discussion which means you have increased the educational value for all of us non-experts. Consider it a healthy debate with nothing but positive results. At least from me. To give you some context, in the other thread I referenced someone commented on what seemed to them like a relatively high potassium level in relation to sodium in the new Jelly Belly Sport Beans. After reading your discussion, that concern seems completely unnecessary. I tried some of them this weekend on my long run. I love the taste, but I ate them all in the first three miles because if I had to listen to that damn rattling coming from my pocket for another minute I was going to kill someone, and I was alone. I'm sticking to my gels. (get it? sticky? gels? I think it was funnier in my head.)
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2006-03-13 12:02 PM in reply to: #368281 |
Champion 8936 | Subject: RE: Potassium vs. Sodium Booooo. hangloose - 2006-03-13 10:29 AM I'm sticking to my gels. (get it? sticky? gels? I think it was funnier in my head.)
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2006-03-13 8:35 PM in reply to: #366081 |
Elite 2999 Hattiesburg, Mississippi | Subject: RE: Potassium vs. Sodium This is a very individual question. You can have you sweat rate measured to see how much sodium and potassium you loss. Generally, people loss more sodium, but also they take in more sodium from there diet due to foods being salted. Make sure you are getting both and you should be fine. |