The Top 20 Rules for Faster Triathlon Swimming (Page 3)

Serious question -- is there any effective difference between the bands and just crossing your feet?  I've been doing the latter lately, and it seems to have the same effect, and seems to force me to work on the same things.

A world away...

I think sometimes it's about what's at stake and how much you have invested in the sport. Last year was my first year of tris, I was no way in range of the podium, let alone win. Nobody's watching to see how I do. I have a family and career entirely separate from tris. Compared to someone who has basically devoted their entire life to performing in a sport, I had zero pressure on me - finish 71st or 101st, it's about the same.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out this year, since I've upped my training investment and my expectations from last year, and certainly expect to do better in my second year than my first. There might start to be just a bit at stake - but obviously still far less at stake than someone who has made athletic performance their primary life goal.

BTW, for spectacular chokes at the world class level, look at golf. Greg Norman, one of the best of his era, made a habit of choking away huge leads in major tournaments. Phil Mickelson has choked away more majors than he's won. In a sport where rhythm, fluidity, and tempo are everything, a case of nerves can be debilitating.

If you mean by putting a band (or doubled-up tyre tube or what-have-you) around your feet, yes. They allow for just about the amount of movement you want in a kick, no more.

I think Filliol meant swim bands, like Halos, for dry-land strength training.

Responding to your comments/questions with the perspective of new or BOP swimmers in mind (btw, 2:00/100 puts swimmers at solid MOP for triathlon swims!)

The only "traditional" drill I would be willing to recommend to (almost) every newbie/BOP is the fist drill. The difficulty with recommending drills sight unseen is that the drill has a GOAL and PURPOSE--if the swimmer doesn't need it, or actually has an opposite problem, you could wind up creating a worse problem. Or, the swimmer focuses on the drill, not what it's supposed to achieve, and can't integrate the purpose into an overall smooth, efficient stroke.

So, "good" and "bad" drills are individual-swimmer dependent, and furthermore depend on integration to achieve their purpose. And some drills, like the shark-fin drill are nearly overall completely useless.

There's a difference between using paddles for swim-specific strengthening (definitely not recommended for crappy strokes!) and for learning/sharpening technique.

Wear only the finger strap and swim like that, keeping the paddle on your hand, and that will help teach a decent pull.

The only instance in which you would have to do this is if there is significant chop coming straight at you and from both sides. In this case, nearly every race director would pull the swim.

Not as far as swimming is concerned. You may be working it hard, but you're not sprinting, and you're not putting the same forces on your body as running or even cycling. [note also in long-session endurance training, you're going to be doing it at a lower intensity anyway, so no need to warm up]

#19 seems only rule to suggest that continuing to swim after fatigue sets in could be bad.  The potential to ingrain bad habits when fatigued would seem to be higher in less skilled &/or conditioned swimmers.

I have great respect for Suzanne and think that much of her swimming advice is very helpful for the vast demographic of this site, which, as we have pointed out, is NOT Filliol's audience (though much of it still pertains).

However, Suzanne made this claim (bold mine): "he displayd lack of subtle knowledge that could help his swimmers get fast faster."

His swimmers. Not hers, not ours, not BT's. If Suzanne is truly claiming Filliol lacks the subtle knowledge to more efficiently speed up his world-class and world-champion triathletes (some of whom were also world-class single-sport swimmers), and that she herself has this knowledge, I seriously doubt that.

I use an old race belt.  I've also found it to be a really useful drill for body position.

Do you guys kick at all when using the tube/band?  Or sometimes kick, sometimes not?  If no kicking, why wouldn't just crossing my feet achieve the same result?  (That's a genuine question, not rhetorical.)

I don't kick at all.  Banding your feet together eliminates the possibility of "cheating" by kicking just a little to maintain body position.  It forces you to use your core instead.  I've tried doing it without a band, and I found it difficult to not kick automatically, which added one more thing to think about rather than focusing almost entirely on body position.

Thanks for that Don.  (The foot-crossing thing is what keeps me from cheating.)

I totally agree. That sucker reads WAY more snarky than it was intended. Apologies for the nastiness. Didn't intend to be "that guy"

Not that it makes it acceptable, but I was responding to the back and forth beginning between the 2 specifically regarding the Lezak race. Not swimming in general. Still didn't come off right.

Suzanne, you do realize that you are speaking about one of, if not the best triathlon coach in the world?

Let's also not lose sight of who Joel is talking to....I honestly don't think Joel would look at a swimmer going along at 2:00/100 and say..."yeah, just throw a band on a pound out 30k a week...you'll be fine" Obviously this is meant for people that can basically swim.

Couple things

1. Teaching someone to swim is different than coaching someone to swim fast in open water/triathlon.

2. Form breaks down because of limitations of your fitness....not because you suddenly forget how to swim after a certain point. Test this...go swim a 200m TT...take your 100m average and push that out to 1500m....if you would be happy with that time at 1500m, then your problem is fitness, not technique.

Not sure I am on board with #2.  I am sure there are a lot of people that can improve their fitness and pull that off but there are probably just as many that can improve technique and achieve the same result with no net gain in fitness. Maybe I am reading this the wrong way.

I'm sure there are. They would probably lie more towards the slow swimmer end of the spectrum. The problem is, people read what you just wrote and say, see, I just need to work on my technique and I'll get faster....which they probably will....but they will never be "fast" unless at some point they are willing to put in the work. Someone swimming 2-3x a week will see the most gains improving their form since that isn't nearly enough to make any substantial gains in fitness....it's barely maintenance. It's not tough to take someone from 1:40/100 to 1:30/100 with some technique and rhythm because in swimming, that is extremely slow anyway....so you're going from sucking to sucking less. I don't mean to offend anyone but that is the reality...and yes, I lump myself into the group that sucks at swimming compared to fast swimmers.

By the same token someone will read what you wrote and think they just need to pound out the yards to get faster, and a lot will. But most need to work on both technique and put in the work to reap the most benefit. I am not so sure one trumps the other is all I am saying.

I think it's a sliding rule. As in, someone who doesn't know how to swim would be all technique and someone with a perfect stroke would only need fitness....those would be the extremes. All the best triathlon and open water swimming coaches in the world are pretty much on board with the idea that once your stroke is good enough, it's time to start pounding. Sutton, Filliol, Smith, Sousa, Rodrigues...etc etc.